USA should take a page out of Australia's handbook!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Now that everyone has put me in my place and told me about the wicked Koran or Qur'an and it's wicked teachings, I wonder how many here have read the Qur'an?

No, I am not asking how many know how to use google to get a isolated quote here and there, but actually read it from cover to cover?

I have.

I am a Christian. It is not the Bible that caused the inquisiton and the Salem witch hunts or the killing of innocent civilians in Iraq. And it was not the Qur'an which caused 911 or the bombing of the USS Cole. Those acts were accomplished by people who think that their God is better.

Allah is Arabic for God.

[Morsaille 4]

Was this on another thread? I have done some reading in the Qur'an and, when complimenting Dawg, believed that he was supporting TOM's statement that Allah and the God of the Bible were one and the same.

Sorry TOM if I was misunderstood.

Your tone was aggressive, but matched equally the tone of the OP.

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

One minute people are complaining about following the law and the next people must follow tradition.

So should Japanese people have to convert to Christianity when they immigrate to the USA?

A few months ago, US citizens were horrified when they heard of a person in Afghanistan who converted from Islam to Christianity and was facing the death penality for it. Condoleezza Rice said that it was not democracy. But it was Democracy. A democratically elected government passed that law. And even if they hadn't passed the law, shouldn't that man have followed the tradition of Afghanistan?

Does everyone have to be a clone to live in the USA?

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

In the Old Testament, God Promised Abraham that his children would be given Canan (which became Israel). Abraham had two children. One is the father of the Jews and the other the father of the Muslims.

Christians are descendents from the Jews. So we are all one big family.

By the way, we are all Iraqi-Americans. If you believe the Bible, our ancestors, Adam and Eve, both came from the garden of Eden, which is in Iraq.

[dawg 0]

Those acts were accomplished by people who think that their God is better.

I wonder if its that at all with regards to the recent acts of terrorism. If that was the case the Shi'a and Sunni wouldn't do it to each other. I think it's more of a fundamental hatred of a group who has a different theology or opinion.

There is also some territorial aspects which can't be ignored.

There is plenty in most books of faith that can be adopted for use by people who have the desire for murder and hatred.

Allah is Arabic for God.

That is 100% correct. I also believe that the Qur'an even specifically mentions that they share the same God as the Isrealites. The difficulty comes in when you then ask the person who is Jewish whether their God sanctioned Jesus or Muhammed. They would likely say no.

So, at which point I'd say there is a divergance. If I believe in the Trinity, I clearly am not following the same belief in God as either the Jewish or Muslim faiths. I claim that my God is also the God of Abraham and Isaac as stated earlier. An orthodox Jew might say I'm a crackhead for having such a preposterous belief.

Viewpoint is everything. If I say my God is the God of the Jews, the Jews would be within their rights to say "no your God isn't, we don't believe in this Trinity thing".

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Was this on another thread? I have done some reading in the Qur'an and, when complimenting Dawg, believed that he was supporting TOM's statement that Allah and the God of the Bible were one and the same.

Sorry TOM if I was misunderstood.

Your tone was aggressive, but matched equally the tone of the OP.

There was no attack directed at you. My tone is aggressive because I am tired of hearing people being told that they don't meassure up. People who break the law should be dealth with. People who plot killings and terrorist attacks deserve harsh penalties, but people who happen to be the same color skin, or read the same holy book, or come from the same part of the world as the lawbreakers, do not deserve to be singled out.

Where is the disgust at the singing group know as "Prussian Blue"? Where were the calls for the profiling of white males with crew cuts after the Oklahoma City terrorist attack?

This country has few traditions unless you want to count slavery, lynchings and oppression of non-whites. Yes, I am angry. I am angry because people find it too easy to scape-goat and to give away the rights of every group of people but their own.

[dawg 0]

In the Old Testament, God Promised Abraham that his children would be given Canan (which became Israel). Abraham had two children. One is the father of the Jews and the other the father of the Muslims.

Christians are descendents from the Jews. So we are all one big family.

By the way, we are all Iraqi-Americans. If you believe the Bible, our ancestors, Adam and Eve, both came from the garden of Eden, which is in Iraq.

Agree 98.9%. The exact location of the Garden is of course a bit of a questionmark. But it's in that general area, somewhere.

[Morsaille 4]

I know it wasn't you Donna ((hugs))

This was an Aussie version of one my former Marine uncle sends out about once a month. Silly Uncle...

No blame from me, K?

[DonnaB 3]

I know it wasn't you Donna ((hugs))

This was an Aussie version of one my former Marine uncle sends out about once a month. Silly Uncle...

No blame from me, K?

LOL - I went back and deleted my post because I realized that even though I didn't write that attempt at Aussie utopia, I did post it - which makes me the OP! lol

No worries mate!

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Viewpoint is everything. If I say my God is the God of the Jews, the Jews would be within their rights to say "no your God isn't, we don't believe in this Trinity thing".

What is the first commandment?

There is but one God.

All three groups believe that. The Christians believe that the "One God" has three sub-parts.

Either way, no one will know until they are dead, if they should have believed in the whole God that the Jews and Muslims believe in or that same God with the 3 sub-parts. Either way, that God does not believe in killing his children and WE ARE ALL HIS CHILDREN.

If anything, the Christians should be the last to condemn the other two groups, for it was Jesus who spent the most time preaching love, forgiveness and compassion, something that too many of the people who claim to follow his teachings seem to forget.

[dawg 0]

Either way, no one will know until they are dead

Agree 100%

Either way, that God does not believe in killing his children and WE ARE ALL HIS CHILDREN.

Sorry, the flood... He killed everyone accept 6. That's pretty much willing to kill His children.

If anything, the Christians should be the last to condemn the other two groups, for it was Jesus who spent the most time preaching love, forgiveness and compassion, something that too many of the people who claim to follow his teachings seem to forget.

Agree 100%

We 'should' be able to turn the other cheek. BUt of course if we always could do that, and could have lived in peace and harmony - Jesus wouldn't have been such a necessity.

It's because we are crappy humans that we NEED Jesus.

The important thing is that we TRY and be better

[Tired_Old_Man 1]

Agree 100%

Sorry, the flood... He killed everyone accept 6. That's pretty much willing to kill His children.

I meant he does not want his children killing each other.

Wasn't that another commandment?

[dawg 0]

I meant he does not want his children killing each other.

Wasn't that another commandment?

That is also very true.

Of course there is a caveat.

Pretty sure they had the commandments directly before the Isrealites went Hack n' Slashing across the Middle East.

And then of course David... sorta killed a few people with God's OK.

Also, there was the Husband and Wife in the new testament who claimed to give all the tithe they could but lied... and things didn't go so well for them.

God is good. No doubt about it. We're just not good enough for God.

[Jachut 487]

Um, actually that doesnt give a really good view of Australian policy regarding multiculturalism. Australia is very much a multicultural country, tolerant of all cultures and taken out of context (which by isolating it like that you've unintentionally done), that little speech sounds alarmingly racist to me and in no way reflects our views on other cultures as a whole. I'd like to think that there is no ethnic "other" in my country. Most of us live happily amidst many different cultures and most cultural groups in Australia have a wonderful freedom to assimilate into the mainstream communit as well as keeping in touch with their ethnic heritage and traditions.

In the wake of recent world unrest, Australians have actually been incredibly tolerate of our muslim citizens, of course there have been isolated incidents of racism fuelled by fear and ignorance, but as a general rule we exist happily and peacefully in this country. Australians dont as a general rule ask immigrants to either check their heritage at the door or get lost.

If you'd like a lifestyle where you have the wonderful opportunity learn from and appreciate all cultures then Australia is a great place to live.

The climate and lifestyle are fantastic. You can live in the tropics and wear shorts and singlets all year, or you can choose a mild and moderate climate further south. We have great food, great people and a pretty fair and equitable health and welfare system compared to the rest of the world. The old ideals of classed societies dont apply in Australia, everyone has the right to have a go and some of our most successful and powerful people have hauled themselves up from their humble beginnings on the wrong side of the track. We have footy and we have beer and we are holding on (just) to a healthier lifestyle for our kids than many other places in the world enjoy. Our education system is great.

We really are the lucky country.

[dawg 0]

I actually know many folks down in Aus. They have for the most part been extremely friendly (almost obnoxiously friendly!) and actually - a bit more liberal than my horribly conservative tastes can cope with.

I have every belief that the Australians are far more open to various cultures than the US.

I also know it's a beautiful country.

They also have been known to throw Yabbi's on the Barbie along with a few snags. I respect that in anyone. Even if their beer is a bit thin.