Hi everyone,

I wasn't sure how to pull this together, because I'm thinking about experiences I have had as a black woman, and as a blind one.

I take paratransit, known here as Access Services, home from work. Basically, it's a curb to curb cab service (or van) for a very small fee.

Twice I have ridden with passengers who have not wanted to sit by me, either because I'm black, or blind, or both. The most recent incident was today. I was in a van, and a woman got in. She sat down next to me, all the while talking to someone outside the van. All at once, after what was a halfhearted attempt at trying to fasten her seat belt, I heard the driver put down a middle seat. After we took off, I reached over to see if there was anything wrong with the belt. There wasn't; it moved quite easily.

That has happened to me before in an Access vehicle.

When I rode the bus, there was a driver who refused to speak to me. He never told me if there was a seat in front, or anywhere, for that matter, but he spoke to a blind man who was not black. They had a rather animated conversation in fact.

At the risk of sounding shallow, using an old cliche, I have friends of all races and ethnicities. I went to school with predominantly white kids of necessity. I had to go where the resources for blind kids were. I'm glad I did. I think it taught me a lot about all kinds of people, and how dull my life would be had I not met so many different types.

But I have also had several experiences of people who either thought I couldn't possibly help them because I'm blind, or who simply refused to interact with me, sit by me, you name it, for the same reason.

If anyone cares to share experiences from any point of view, I welcome them, and thank you all for letting me rant.

Debbie

My bad, Beth. There should be an icon for sarcasm

Debbie!

Nah, not your bad. It's very hard to read sarcasm online, especially if you don't know the person. Now plain, much of what he does is sarcasm, so when he posts something somewhat serious but outlandish, I have to ask if he's for real just cuz... :sad:

Hey!! I'm right here!! Debbie will attest to my sterling character. Right Debbie? Debbie? Hello.....??

Indio Gal, (sorry if I wrote it wrong) thank you for what you said. Racism can be subtle, and yes, you're right; it has been my experience over and over for the 54 years I have been on this planet. It's interesting that people have overlooked certain facts: That I said I feel sad when it happens to Anyone; no comment on my friend's mother--again, thank you Indio Gal--and, by the way, Barack is only half black, so I don't even understand why blacks are making it sound as though he was full black. The information I gave, I don't think, was limited at all. I don't like to think of racism happening anywhere, either, but it does, it has happened to me, and maybe always will. So I guess I have three strikes against me: I'm black, blind and fat.

Also, I was in a van when the woman moved. It's not as if I was touching her; there was plenty of room between us.

If I have a bias, so be it. It happened to me, and I don't mind people questioning, but what I do mind is people making me feel as though I don't know what the hell I'm experiencing

Debbie.

No problem Debbie... I totally understand where you are coming from and have empathy that you have to experience any kind of predjudice..

Hey!! I'm right here!! Debbie will attest to my sterling character. Right Debbie? Debbie? Hello.....??

Oops! did I miss my cue?

Uh, yeah, Plain, you da man!

:tongue:

Debbie

OMG, plain. You're a card-carrying American Indian?? I wish I were. My grandparents hid the fact from the government that my grandmother was full-blood Cherokee. Then my parents hid it from us kids for years. When they finally started coming clean they told us we had a tiny little bit, like a sixteenth. Then my mom admitted that one of her parents was half Cherokee. Anyway, I've always wished that they had helped us straighten it all out. Sadly, I'm the only child that they had who was even interested in researching that part of our roots. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to get it all straightened out.

The tribe I was talking about were the Osage Indians in NE Oklahoma. I have no idea how they are financially today or in fact, anything about their standard of living. But when I was a young girl, I heard lots of stories about how they inlaid silver and gold coins into their concrete porches to show off their wealth. Their houses were large and two-story made out of brick. Back then, nobody much had concrete porches or all brick houses. They were generally wooden. There was a good amount of oil on their land, some fabulous stone quarries, minerals, etc. Whether all this was folklore or the truth, I can't state as FACT. I know what I was told and I know that there was a certain respect for the Osage Indians where we lived. And Indians in Oklahoma, when I was growing up, were not discrminated against (except maybe by the government.) Afterall, most of us had Indian blood coursing through our veins. There's a lot of Indian cultural pride in parts of Oklahoma even today. I don't look at the casinos with the same sense of pride as we did with the Osage Indians, but I do respect that the Indians got smart and are cheerfully taking the white man's gambling money off their hands.

But let's face it, we live in Cowboy country now. That's party's over. They just want to shoot indians, eh?

OMG, plain. You're a card-carrying American Indian?? I wish I were. My grandparents hid the fact from the government that my grandmother was full-blood Cherokee. Then my parents hid it from us kids for years. When they finally started coming clean they told us we had a tiny little bit, like a sixteenth. Then my mom admitted that one of her parents was half Cherokee. Anyway, I've always wished that they had helped us straighten it all out. Sadly, I'm the only child that they had who was even interested in researching that part of our roots. I wouldn't have a clue as to how to get it all straightened out.

The tribe I was talking about were the Osage Indians in NE Oklahoma. I have no idea how they are financially today or in fact, anything about their standard of living. But when I was a young girl, I heard lots of stories about how they inlaid silver and gold coins into their concrete porches to show off their wealth. Their houses were large and two-story made out of brick. Back then, nobody much had concrete porches or all brick houses. They were generally wooden. There was a good amount of oil on their land, some fabulous stone quarries, minerals, etc. Whether all this was folklore or the truth, I can't state as FACT. I know what I was told and I know that there was a certain respect for the Osage Indians where we lived. And Indians in Oklahoma, when I was growing up, were not discrminated against (except maybe by the government.) Afterall, most of us had Indian blood coursing through our veins. There's a lot of Indian cultural pride in parts of Oklahoma even today. I don't look at the casinos with the same sense of pride as we did with the Osage Indians, but I do respect that the Indians got smart and are cheerfully taking the white man's gambling money off their hands.

But let's face it, we live in Cowboy country now. That's party's over. They just want to shoot indians, eh?

I always wished I was Indian. I used to love reading about them when I was a kid and watching them on television. As a kid, I always wanted to be the Indian in cowboys-n-indians.

Just like I don't understand the hatred of most groups, I never understood the hatred for Indians or Jews the most of all. These are people I have loved from afar and view as very strong people who have gone through many hardships.

My ex used to say that his grandmother was full-blood Cherokee -- which would have made my daughter partial Cherokee -- but we found out that was just another of his many lies. :biggrin:

Forgot to add, BJean -- do you know if you could find out family history through something like Ancestry.com? I know you can find out TONS of info there, especially from other distant family members who have done most of the legwork for you. I wasn't sure if it would be more convoluted due to the possibility that recordkeeping in Indian communities may not have existed very far back. But it might be worth a try. It's amazing what you can find out through Ancestry. I was able to trace my roots all the way back to the name of the ship my ancestors came over on in 1610. Once I got online and found THAT out, I found a very distant cousin who is in the Netherlands who has done much research on his end and further traced my heritage back to the early 1500s. It's VERY cool!!

Beth, that is neat! My family has been doing some research, but I don't think anyone has gotten very far. We had a family reunion in St. Louis a couple of years ago, and were only able to go back as far as the late 1800's, I think.

Debbie

I grew up in a Religious environment where geneaology and the study of ones ancestry is part of the culture and the religion. So, My family has my "roots" traced WAY back, on both sides. It's quite interesting to see where we have come from throughout the generations.

HH

I have a cousin who is an LDSer. He traced the Scotch-Irish side of my mother's family (her father) as far back as the 1600s, I think. I read it all but didn't pay much attention at the time. He claimed that we had some royalty in our background. I was young and too busy doing other things. I don't think he was able to find out a lot about my grandmother.

My brother paid someone to do the research once but didn't discover much of interest I guess because we never really talked about it.

I have a cousin who is an LDSer. He traced the Scotch-Irish side of my mother's family (her father) as far back as the 1600s, I think. I read it all but didn't pay much attention at the time. He claimed that we had some royalty in our background. I was young and too busy doing other things. I don't think he was able to find out a lot about my grandmother.

My brother paid someone to do the research once but didn't discover much of interest I guess because we never really talked about it.

We have a Rockefeller way back there, and there was also a Lizzie Borden-style murder that happened where they thought it was my ancestor who hatcheted his wife and kids, but later it was determined he was away at market and they eventually thought it was a drifter who came through town that did it.

A Rockerfeller huh? Well then you are carrying some fairly serious conservative DNA. Bet you wish you were carrying around some of the serious cash that is linked with the name. (That's making an assumption that you aren't, of course.)

A Rockerfeller huh? Well then you are carrying some fairly serious conservative DNA. Bet you wish you were carrying around some of the serious cash that is linked with the name. (That's making an assumption that you aren't, of course.)

Yeah, somehow we got skipped on the cash end. LOL

I think if I really researched it, I could qualify for the Daughters of the Republic or some such thing. I would have to prove up some ancestry, but if I chose to do it, I think I would qualify. What I would like to find is how many of my ancestors served in the wars. I certainly found some that served in the Civil War, and that was interesting.

It's really amazing what you can find there. Things you would never consider.

OMG, plain. You're a card-carrying American Indian?? I wish I were. My grandparents hid the fact from the government that my grandmother was full-blood Cherokee.

That's MY tribe, lol.

The tribe I was talking about were the Osage Indians in NE Oklahoma. I have no idea how they are financially today or in fact, anything about their standard of living. But when I was a young girl, I heard lots of stories about how they inlaid silver and gold coins into their concrete porches to show off their wealth. Their houses were large and two-story made out of brick. Back then, nobody much had concrete porches or all brick houses. They were generally wooden. There was a good amount of oil on their land, some fabulous stone quarries, minerals, etc. Whether all this was folklore or the truth, I can't state as FACT. I know what I was told and I know that there was a certain respect for the Osage Indians where we lived. And Indians in Oklahoma, when I was growing up, were not discrminated against (except maybe by the government.) Afterall, most of us had Indian blood coursing through our veins. There's a lot of Indian cultural pride in parts of Oklahoma even today. I don't look at the casinos with the same sense of pride as we did with the Osage Indians, but I do respect that the Indians got smart and are cheerfully taking the white man's gambling money off their hands.

Hmmmm...interesting. I'll check out the Osage for more info! I can tell you for a fact that the Cherokee rez in southern Ok is all about miserable poverty. I live in extreme northeast Texas (in fact, I could be across the OK border in an hour), but I've never been to the northern parts of OK.

Just like I don't understand the hatred of most groups, I never understood the hatred for Indians or Jews the most of all.

Well, racism really boils to xenophobia, IMO. Religious intolerance......yeah, I really don't get that. As for blacks and indians, my theory is that there will always be people angry with the group that recieves government assistance (whether that be black folks or indians), because let's face it....there is widespread abuse (no matter what ethnicity, religious creed, sexual orientation, whatever) in those programs that give folks an incentive to not work (I know that there are also many people across the board that really do need assistance).

Now here's where my theory goes awry: Why automatically equate all people of a race with a few that one knows that might be associated with governmental fraud? I dunno. My wife (she's a teacher) attended a seminar about how the different social classes react to things. One of the things that the speaker said about the lower socioeconomic class is that they are statistically more apt to be racist.......the speaker theorized that for the poorest of the poor, maybe sometimes hating another group takes the focus off their own miserable lives (ie, "My life really sucks, but at least I'm not indian", or something like that).

Well how 'bout that, bro! My Indian name is: Sister turn the other cheek. Take that any way you want. (kidding, of course)

You haven't been to God's territory - NE Oklahoma? I have no idea if it is still there, but I can't believe you haven't ventured up to Tahlequah to see the Cherokee exhibits/camp. It was built long ago and maybe it has not been maintained. I dunno. Maybe there's a casino there now. But it was interesting. And in North Carolina, there is a village that is the heart of the Cherokee Nation and I believe it is where the Trail of Tears started. That part of North Carolina and parts of NE Oklahoma are very similar in terrain. Both very hilly/mountainous, heavily treed and beautiful. If you're a card carrier, you might think about traveling to N.C., flash your card and meet some of your brothers.

Texarkana climate and vegetation is much greener and more like that part of the country than where I am near Ft. Worth. Where I am, those darned cowboys are still gunning for us. This is the part of the country where I have experienced the most discrimination against Indians. Some of it is tongue in cheek, some rather serious. But that may have more to do with football than the Indian/Cowboy culture. :-)