There was a story on the news about this, and I thought it would be an iteresting debate. I am undecided.

Wha...??

Omg, tell him you ought to run around nekkid because that's how God made ya. :w00t:

I better not suggest that idea, because he might just like it!!! LOL!!

It is never God's plan for someone to be injured.

I agree with you, no one should be forced to pray. That isn't what I meant at all. If during a moment of silence or a prayer at a football game, if some one chooses not to pray, that is fine, in fact, I wouldn't want it forced. That is just controlling people.

But you can pray. You can pray all day, you can go to a school and pray, you can go to a gov't building and pray, you can request the use of a room at school to gather you, your friends, your kids, and anyone else that WANTS to join you and you can pray all day long if you wish. You just can't push it on others. So what is the problem??? Since you can pray in gov't buildings then what did you mean when you wrote the following:

Although I can understand why some are athiests, I do not agree with some athiests wanting to take prayer and God out of everything.

And again... it's not just the atheists that want forced religion put to an end.

I don't see praying before a football game or having a moment of silence as being FORCED. If someone doen't want to participate, then they don't have to. But not being able to pray and not being able to have a moment of silence is FORCED. That's what I mean about taking God out of everything.

What the laws say and what "some" do ... do you see the same difference here that I do? Wouldn't that be a bit like saying "some" Christians hate atheists so there ya go for Christian tolerance?

I don't care about individual cases, I care about the laws. No matter what the law there will be some who do not follow it. If they do not follow it, push the issue.

And why the heck would you pray before a game anyway? What good will it do? If you pray for the players not to be injured and your God's plan was for someone to be injured, you think he's going to change his entire plan so you can get your request? I thought your god knew everything that was going to happen before it happens. If he changes his mind on his universe plan based on the fact that you asked him to, doesn't that blow the "all knowing" stuff your God claims?

What if it was a bunch of Satan worshipers that were demanding they pray to THEIR god before a game, would you be so angry that atheists don't want to hear that either?

I fixed the quote for you. At the 2nd quote you need a "/" in front of he quote. ;o) I think I fixed it, we'll see.

BTW, it's not just atheists that don't want prayer, religion, and gawd shoved down our collective throats. Many Christians feel the same.

I can see my point was completely lost on you.

I agree with you. While some atheists don't want our beliefs forced on them, some see no problem with forcing their beliefs on us. That's like some wanting "In God we trust" removed from the dollar bill. It has always been there, if someone doesn't want to read it, then they don't have to. I believe this country was founded on the belief in God and Jesus. You can read it in the constitution. I also think that most americans believe in God and Jesus in some way or another. I heard something on the radio the other day that was interesting. If most of us are believers, then why do we just sit around and not do anything about God being taken out of everything just to please atheists, when most of us are believers. It makes you think.

What beliefs do atheists have that we want pushed on you? Atheist merely means without a god. Who is telling you that the govt wants you to be atheist?

In God We Trust most certainly has NOT been on money since the beginning of money. That was added later at the insistence of xtians.

You can believe this country was founded on xtianity but those that wrote the constitution/Bill of Rights would disagree with you. Heck, many of your forefathers were not even xtian. Why would they want a country based on the religion of another? The Treaty of Tripoli is a pretty good example, note Art. 11:

US Treaty with Tripoli, 1796-1797

What part of that tells you this country was based on xtianity?

I recall a time when most believed slavery was okay, doesn't make it so. People are growing, learning, and leaving xtianity at record rates.

AGAIN... I don't think you are thinking as you state above. Don't be so quick to cram religion in every corner of gov't. Pretty soon it won't be xtianity that is crammed down our throats, it will be the new religion and you'll need to remember that you are for the "majority religion" rules in this country. It will be the fault of "cram xtianity down the citizens throats" group when your children and grandchildren are worshiping some God YOU don't agree with.

Look, you can pray anywhere you want. The only thing that is left is forcing it upon others. Why would you want this?

...That's like some wanting "In God we trust" removed from the dollar bill. It has always been there, ...

As I wrote earlier, no... it hasn't:

U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust"

It is never God's plan for someone to be injured.

How do you know that? Maybe someone needs that experience. He knows everything that is going to happen before it happens, he made people so they COULD be injured, when people ask not to be injured they still are anyway. What he does, does not seem to agree with what you claim.

Ever read the OT? I think it's fair to say that he injured quite a few people. NT as well.

My points were totally lost as well. I give up.

I don't see praying before a football game or having a moment of silence as being FORCED. If someone doen't want to participate, then they don't have to. But not being able to pray and not being able to have a moment of silence is FORCED. That's what I mean about taking God out of everything.

Isn't your God pretty clear about prayer and it not being done in front of everyone? Isn't that supposed to be something saved for private moments?

If the Satan worshipers wanted to pray to THEIR god before a football game, would you respect that as much as you respect your desired right to blast it before a football game? What if every religion wanted to be able to pray to their gods before a football game. You guys could all take turns, maybe go in alphabetical order according to the name of the God. Oh no, can't do that, Baptists would have a different prayer than the Catholics. Okay, you could go in alphabetical order of the name of each religion/belief. Of course, this could take days...

Special rights are not really so special to others. Equal time would mean special rights and the football game would never happen because everyone would be so eager to behave like Christians that want their special rights, too.

I can see my point was completely lost on you.

No, your point was not lost at all. But you did make a good effort at dodging the questions posed to you via redirection.

Care to try again? ;o)

I believe Catholics and Baptist believe in the same God.

My points were totally lost as well. I give up.

No, they were not lost. I merely disagree and explained why. But honestly, I have come to expect this from most Christians. When the questions get tough, the Christians go running claiming everyone else just doesn't understand.

I noticed you play the same game as Beth... redirecting the topic to avoid answering the harder questions.

No, your point was not lost at all. But you did make a good effort at dodging the questions posed to you via redirection.

Care to try again? ;o)

Why would I want to? I believe in God and you don't. That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I don't need to make my point with people who don't believe. It's rather fruitless and silly.

I agree with you. While some atheists don't want our beliefs forced on them, some see no problem with forcing their beliefs on us. That's like some wanting "In God we trust" removed from the dollar bill. It has always been there, if someone doesn't want to read it, then they don't have to. I believe this country was founded on the belief in God and Jesus. You can read it in the constitution. I also think that most americans believe in God and Jesus in some way or another. I heard something on the radio the other day that was interesting. If most of us are believers, then why do we just sit around and not do anything about God being taken out of everything just to please atheists, when most of us are believers. It makes you think.

Most of the atheists that I know are merely concerned about maintaining a separation between church and state. I read somewhere that the addition of the slogan "In God we trust" on your money was a relatively recent one. This was done sometime during the 20th century - in the 1950s under President Eisenhower, I think. (I personally find it kind of amusing to have a reference to God on that which is Caesar's but that is just my sense of humour.)

But you are right when you say that the majority of Americans are believers. I have read statistics which corroborate this. Your country was, however, founded on splendid revolutionary principles, including that of freedom of belief (and disbelief). If you do not adhere to the separation of state and religion then you run the risk of turning your country into one of those Islamo-states which we currently see performing attrocities against those who do not conform to the rules of their religion in the middle east. It is my opinion that your founding fathers were very wise individuals.