There was a story on the news about this, and I thought it would be an iteresting debate. I am undecided.

No one is redirecting the topic. I just feel it is pointless to argue. No matter what you say, I am still going to believe the way I believe. I don't have all the answers. I don't know why God allows bad things to happen. I am the first to admit that I don't understand a lot of the Bible. But I know what I feel and I know what I believe, and nothing will change that. You feel the way you do, and nothing I say will make you believe otherwise, so it is a pointless argument.

No, they were not lost. I merely disagree and explained why. But honestly, I have come to expect this from most Christians. When the questions get tough, the Christians go running claiming everyone else just doesn't understand.

I noticed you play the same game as Beth... redirecting the topic to avoid answering the harder questions.

Seriously, I have been down this road with harder nuts to crack than you. It's not a matter of redirecting anything, it's a matter of picking one's battles.

It's like trying to describe colors to a blind person. They can't get what you're saying anyway. Nothing personal towards you, but I find when one wrestles with pigs, you end up all dirty and the pig likes it. So what's the point? You have your reasons for not believing in God, and I have a my reasons for believing in Him. Faith cannot be defined or described. You either have it or you don't.

Why would I want to? I believe in God and you don't. That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I don't need to make my point with people who don't believe. It's rather fruitless and silly.

My thought exactly. I also believe that Jesus said if some don't believe, then just dust your shoes off and go on.

I believe Catholics and Baptist believe in the same God.

Obviously so. But they both have different prayers they choose to say at times.

Why would I want to? I believe in God and you don't. That pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I don't need to make my point with people who don't believe. It's rather fruitless and silly.

As I wrote, when the questions get tough the Christians go running.

Great, now we get to hear Patty's sermons. :w00t:

No one is redirecting the topic. I just feel it is pointless to argue. No matter what you say, I am still going to believe the way I believe. I don't have all the answers. I don't know why God allows bad things to happen. I am the first to admit that I don't understand a lot of the Bible. But I know what I feel and I know what I believe, and nothing will change that. You feel the way you do, and nothing I say will make you believe otherwise, so it is a pointless argument.

Nobody is asking you to change your beliefs, that isn't the discussion in the least. It is redirection but not the discussion.

I merely posed questions to you and you decline to answer. Such as... if Satan worshipers wanted the same special rights as xtians, would you respect their rights to want special rights, too?

I challenged you on this country being founded on xtianity and I showed you why. I challenged you on the "in god we trust" bit on our money. I challenged you on your comment that your god doesn't want anyone injured and backed it up with facts and sources.

I get your points, I merely disagree.

Edited January 25, 200917 yr by WASaBubbleButt

As I wrote, when the questions get tough the Christians go running.

Great, now we get to hear Patty's sermons. :w00t:

And as I wrote, I choose not to wrestle with pigs. Figuratively speaking, that is. That is my choice, no? Otherwise, aren't you forcing this on me? :thumbup:

I never got into this as a religious debate anyway.

Seriously, I have been down this road with harder nuts to crack than you. It's not a matter of redirecting anything, it's a matter of picking one's battles.

It's like trying to describe colors to a blind person. They can't get what you're saying anyway. Nothing personal towards you, but I find when one wrestles with pigs, you end up all dirty and the pig likes it. So what's the point? You have your reasons for not believing in God, and I have a my reasons for believing in Him. Faith cannot be defined or described. You either have it or you don't.

We aren't discussing why you believe in anything. We are discussing your beliefs in regard to public events and how we handle people who want special rights. Not a thing in the world to do with whether or not you should believe. Nobody has asked you to defend your faith, nobody has asked that you give up your faith.

One thing I did ask is what the value is for prayer before a football game, merely another question you declined to answer.

Now do you see why I suggest that when the questions get tough, the Christians go running.

We didn't even get one another's questions answered and now we have to put up with a mountain of sermons. Gahhh

My thought exactly. I also believe that Jesus said if some don't believe, then just dust your shoes off and go on.

My mistake, I thought we were talking legal issues. I didn't realize you are here to convert me.

We aren't discussing why you believe in anything. We are discussing your beliefs in regard to public events and how we handle people who want special rights. Not a thing in the world to do with whether or not you should believe. Nobody has asked you to defend your faith, nobody has asked that you give up your faith.

One thing I did ask is what the value is for prayer before a football game, merely another question you declined to answer.

Now do you see why I suggest that when the questions get tough, the Christians go running.

We didn't even get one another's questions answered and now we have to put up with a mountain of sermons. Gahhh

It's not a matter of what value there is in prayer before a football game. It's more about what harm is there in having prayer before a football game if the majority of the people want it? One sucky person can ruin it for everybody else, and I don't recall that America was founded on those principles. It's the mere fact that people can't live and let live. I have to tolerate all sorts of things in my everyday life that I wouldn't necessarily choose to if I was queen, but the same fairness or fair play can't be given by the other side. It just baffles me.

Also, I know your perception is that when the questions get tough, Christians go running. But maybe many believe as I do. It's just not a worthwhile fight.

As for listening to sermons, I'm guessing you mean PattyGreen. The only thing I can suggest is to unsubscribe from the thread. :confused:

And as I wrote, I choose not to wrestle with pigs. Figuratively speaking, that is. That is my choice, no? Otherwise, aren't you forcing this on me? :confused:

I never got into this as a religious debate anyway.

Yes, we keep getting your pig inferences. I just choose not to return the favor.

Absolutely! You have the choice to run from any discussion you wish when the questions put you on the spot. How in the world can someone on a message board force you to do anything?

Perhaps a little drama along with the redirection?

No one is running. As I explained to you, I don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend to.

I don't know how Satan worshipers believe, but I doubt they pray to Satan or would want to before a game or any other time. The questions you are asking are just silly.

If you believed, you would understand the value of prayer before a football game or any other time. Since you don't believe, no matter what we say, it won't matter to you and you will continue to argue about it.

My mistake, I thought we were talking legal issues. I didn't realize you are here to convert me.

I see again that the point was totally lost on you. By the way, that quote was meant for Beth, not you.

It's not a matter of what value there is in prayer before a football game. It's more about what harm is there in having prayer before a football game if the majority of the people want it? One sucky person can ruin it for everybody else, and I don't recall that America was founded on those principles. It's the mere fact that people can't live and let live. I have to tolerate all sorts of things in my everyday life that I wouldn't necessarily choose to if I was queen, but the same fairness or fair play can't be given by the other side. It just baffles me.

Also, I know your perception is that when the questions get tough, Christians go running. But maybe many believe as I do. It's just not a worthwhile fight.

As for listening to sermons, I'm guessing you mean PattyGreen. The only thing I can suggest is to unsubscribe from the thread. :sneaky:

Nawww.. I wouldn't unsubscribe from this thread, you would miss me too much. :confused:

I could and probably will block Patty/Ron though.

It wasn't just one person that ruined it for everyone. It was a group of people that wanted current laws enforced and did not agree that you should get special rights. Seriously, you can get a group of people anywhere to agree with something you also want. Go to any prison and I'll bet you find a group of people that don't believe murder should be against the law. Then you have that one pissy person that has the job of the warden that just ruins it for everyone.

I just find it odd that you were in there gung ho telling me about what you believe regarding legal issues and whether or not you agree and as soon as you were asked direct questions to defend your own statements (noooo, not regarding faith but legalities) you suddenly feel that I don't understand your points and you are wrestling with pigs.

Whatever.

No one is running. As I explained to you, I don't have all the answers, nor do I pretend to.

I don't know how Satan worshipers believe, but I doubt they pray to Satan or would want to before a game or any other time. The questions you are asking are just silly.

If you believed, you would understand the value of prayer before a football game or any other time. Since you don't believe, no matter what we say, it won't matter to you and you will continue to argue about it.

Well, you doubted that In God We Trust was ever NOT on money so to assume what another religion wants or does might not be wise.

Christians want special rights and if another would want the same right THEN it is silly.

I did believe at one time, prayer made no sense then either. It doesn't change the outcome, it doesn't make your god change his mind, it doesn't make him do differently than he was planning anyway so I think it was a reasonable question coming from someone who doesn't understand but would like to.