There was a story on the news about this, and I thought it would be an iteresting debate. I am undecided.

How precious. Bless your heart. We "included" them after slaughtering them into submission.

Maybe it was your great, great, great grandparents that did that.

Beth, you like to say that. "Hour of Power". I've heard it more than once. When others, like myself comment it's "They're monopolizing!', But you never fail to cease from one page!!!! Just because this is a thread that began with prostitution, doesn't mean it has to end there. Conversations drift to other things, if you don't like where they go, then get lost.

How "Christian" of you. :thumbup:

I knew you were a blowhard fake.

dear pg, Your christian's invented terrorism in North America. Your people murdered & raped. Unified, your wack! Connecticut where you bang your bible, was one of the original killing fields. God is coming for you & he is pissed. Thank you for promoting prostitution, your the best!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Man, that's one of the most eloquent posts I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

Having native American genes, I am thoroughly disgusted and offended by patty's remarks about my relatives having been included in any way. They were slaughtered and their land was taken from them and they were segregated and forced onto reservations where there was little opportunity for them to survive in any decent fashion.

I'm Native American too, and I wasn't disgusted. Our ancestors were treated quite badly in the past. What country didn't treat their indigenous peoples badly? It's time to move on. As Kat stated, government reparitions have only made the problem that much worse....

Furthermore, the people who came to America were persecuted for wanting to practice a different religion. This is proof positive that separation of church and state is necessary. That is the foundation of our country. They didn't come here hoping to practice a religion that excluded others.

Actually, they did. Thus the persecution of "witches". All the original settlers wanted was to not have to join the Church of England.....they were certainly not as cavalier with religions that weren't theirs.

People have to understand that belief and religion should not be required by one group over another. The only way we can be assured of that is if our government has no power over people's religious beliefs. Demanding that "In God We Trust" be on our money and "...under God" be in our Pledge of Alliegence, and that we allow manger scenes to be displayed on the lawns in front of our government buildings is oppressive and constitutes using taxpayers money to endorse Christianity, thereby forcing a particular religious belief on every taxpayer in this country.

Nope. Seperation of church and state merely means that the goverment can't legally make you practice a certain religion. It does not mean that there can be no mention of God anywhere public, or on government property.

The mention of God on our money, and in our pledge.....how is that forcing a particular belief? Wasa is an atheist, yet she still spends her money.....and hopefully says the pledge (even if she chooses to leave off the "under God" part) when appropriate. The government hasn't jailed her yet for being an atheist.

The way the government is run and our laws are constructed and enforced should be based on our Constitution - not on the Bible, the Koran or any other religious document.

Like it or not, our legal code is deeply rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition.....As are the codes of most western countries. You may not like that, but what's the alternative?

And Beth, arguing religion with an atheist is like 2 people arguing about which flavor pie tastes best......You're not going to make her see your side, so don't waste your time.

Edited January 27, 200917 yr by plain
typo

How "Christian" of you. :thumbup:

I knew you were a blowhard fake.

WOW! It happens every time! All a christian has to do is get angry at you and all of a sudden "The pounce!' "You're NOT a christian! What a fake!" FYI: Christians are humans too. YOU claim to be a christian, too. But, by your 'Blowhard' statement, I should also call you a fake! Grow up! Your age says 43, but you act 10.

Edited January 27, 200917 yr by pattygreen

Plain, You said it best...Separation of church and state merely means that the government can't legally make you practice a certain religion.

Edited January 27, 200917 yr by pattygreen

"Man, that's one of the most eloquent posts I've ever had the pleasure of reading."

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for enlightening me. I found your post very interesting.

(My ancestors on my father's side were mistreated. They were European Jews. Mistreatment of the Jews goes back centuries and culminated in Hitler's Holocaust. This mistreatment was done by the Christian majority for religious and economic reasons.)

Dear green, The sad thing about christianity is that the wheat grow with the tares. There are many 'christian' denominations that are in 'name' only. People profess the faith, but don't practice it. I can remember when I was younger telling people when they asked, that I was catholic, (a christian faith supposedly)yet, I never even attended a church or thought about God ever. I assumed that I was a christian, because my parents told me I was catholic. "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kindom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven.(Matthew 7:21) Those 'religious' christians who mistreated your ancestors for whatever reason, were not true, practicing, God fearing christians. They were in name only. Christianity is a 'relationship' with God and if they had one they would not have done what they did. This is one of the biggest reasons for why christianity gets blamed for alot of bad things. Because there are so many groups who say they are christian, but truly are not.

And Beth, arguing religion with an atheist is like 2 people arguing about which flavor pie tastes best......You're not going to make her see your side, so don't waste your time.

Hehe, I thought that was what I was telling her! :thumbup:

I refuse to argue religion with anybody who is such a staunch non-believer. I learned that a long time ago.

Dear green, The sad thing about christianity is that the wheat grow with the tares. There are many 'christian' denominations that are in 'name' only. People profess the faith, but don't practice it. I can remember when I was younger telling people when they asked, that I was catholic, (a christian faith supposedly)yet, I never even attended a church or thought about God ever. I assumed that I was a christian, because my parents told me I was catholic. "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kindom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven.(Matthew 7:21) Those 'religious' christians who mistreated your ancestors for whatever reason, were not true, practicing, God fearing christians. They were in name only. Christianity is a 'relationship' with God and if they had one they would not have done what they did. This is one of the biggest reasons for why christianity gets blamed for alot of bad things. Because there are so many groups who say they are christian, but truly are not.

Wow... we've come full circle again. Now tell me there is no implied judgment assessed by the quoted scripture. You're clearly assessing who the "good" christians and "bad" christians are.... Once again....

Aren't we supposed to live a good christian life and let God do the assessing? Your post is just another in a long list of injecting your perceived superiority as one the "good" christians. Delusions of grandeur?

Brad

Your post is just another in a long list of injecting your perceived superiority as one the "good" christians. Delusions of grandeur?

Brad

Certainly very misguided. I know God is not amused by her antics. He told me so.

Certainly very misguided. I know God is not amused by her antics. He told me so.

LOL.... I heard God talking to me once - or so I thought... It was just the public address system... Hearing voices can be a scary experience!

Brad

LOL.... I heard God talking to me once - or so I thought... It was just the public address system... Hearing voices can be a scary experience!

Brad

Ha ha. I routinely hear God talking to me in Walmart. He once told me about stuff being discounted in aisle 7! And 7 is a holy number, eh. lol

As for Catholics not being part of the Christian family, well, I don't agree with that statement. The Catholic and Orthodox churches are the 2 senior branches of the Christian family of churches. Not only do they believe in Jesus Christ but without their missionary work and their conservation of the scriptures in the early centuries there would be no Christianity!

I'm sorry. I should have reread my post before clicking enter. I don't feel that catholicism isn't a christian faith. I only know that there are many from this denomonation who profess to be christians, like I once did, yet do not have a relationship with Christ at all. And I also know personally many catholics who have a sincere relationship with Jesus.

And the scripture I quoted (matthew 7:21) refers to those who don't 'know' Jesus personally, yet attend churches and call upon God, but don't really 'know' him. When I was a catholic child, I recited the 'Our Father' prayer over and over and over, but I was never really communicating with God. (just repeating what I was told to say) There are many people who go through life 'just repeating what they're told to say' and never have a real conversation with God. And as far as me thinking that I am one of the good christians, I don't. That is something that most of you have wrong about me. Noone more than me knows how sinful I truely am. Why do you think that I am so thankful to Jesus for saving me?

Bam, God does do the 'assessing', as you call it, but we are not blind to the error of others around us, even our own errors. We can 'see' when others are wrong and when others are right. (according to God's word)

Bam, God does do the 'assessing', as you call it, but we are not blind to the error of others around us, even our own errors. We can 'see' when others are wrong and when others are right. (according to God's word)

Right, but there is a big difference between knowing when others are wrong and telling them they are wrong.

This is where I think you got off on the wrong foot on here, Patty. I personally think it is far more powerful to be a positive Christian role model than to condem others in a negative way. Christian to Christian, we both know that God is ultimately who will judge. Who can know the mind of God?

I honestly believe that there is no way any of us can know who won't "make the cut" into Heaven, because we don't have God's wisdom, insight, or mercy. Therefore, for me to tell somebody that they're going to hell, or that they're a "false" Christian is laughable.......that's between them and God. I'll let God handle all that. My business is what's between God and me.