There was a story on the news about this, and I thought it would be an iteresting debate. I am undecided.

my pastor said to his dad once " I don't want to go to any church where there are hypocrites!" He replied "Never mind what other people are doing and YOU do the right thing." We can't control whether others in the church are hypicritical or not. We can only control what we do or say. Therefore, I never let the actions of some keep me from worshipping God with like minded christians.

my pastor said to his dad once " I don't want to go to any church where there are hypocrites!" He replied "Never mind what other people are doing and YOU do the right thing." We can't control whether others in the church are hypicritical or not. We can only control what we do or say. Therefore, I never let the actions of some keep me from worshipping God with like minded christians.

That's how you do it. I have watched more hypocrites bring churches down than anything else. They are like a cancer. So why get involved in a church only to watch it waste away?

By the way, you DO know about this board, right?

http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f162/christian-bandsters-42609/index92.html#post1121701

Funny thing is I haven't seen anything from you over there. :huh2:

I totally agree with Beth. I stopped going to church about a year ago because of all the drama and nonsense. I get enough of that at work without having to go to church and get it there as well. No where in the Bible does it say you must go to church to go to heaven.

Did you ever blow up a balloon and then deflate it? If you look at it, it's larger than when you started and then when you put air in it, it blows up with less effort than the first time. You can still put just as much air in it as before you deflated it. You will need to control the amount of air you put into it if you want to keep it at half full say. Sorry, I meant it will go back into that position, but it will never stay there without your control.

Your stomach will hold about 1.5L (think of a 2L bottle of soda). Even at our biggest binges it's unlikely anyone ever ate that quanity of food in one sitting.

You are very likely safe from stretching your stomach. Now your pouch, that's a whole different story.

Caarrie, you're right. I agree.

Sorry wasa... you posted quicker than me... lol

We've share similar thinking on several issues here today. ;o)

I can give him the credit for the good things, because God is good. Yet, He also allows bad things to happen. He does not over ride mans will. If you choose to do wrong, he allows the consequences. He also allows the consequences of what we all do, good or bad, to affect others. Hence why all sinful acts affect society as a whole.

Ok... so God gets credit for anything good - but anything bad is either the fault of man or nobody's fault at all... Hmm... Well I don't think I can believe that myself, but if it works for you - great!

There are two protections I believe that should always be guaranteed...

1) Everybody is entitled to their beliefs no matter how irrational they may seem to anyone else. And nobody should be attacking a person's belief, even though you believe otherwise. Freedom OF religion.

2) Nobody should pass judgment on another person by applying their beliefs to other people, who don't believe the same thing. (Freedom FROM religion)

Unfortunately a lot of religious people violate number 2 and do it so frequently that they don't even realize they're doing it.

Brad

I believe good things come from God and bad things come from Satan. But that's just my belief.

I believe good things come from God and bad things come from Satan. But that's just my belief.

Good things do come from God and one of the good things is that He allows consequences when we do wrong. What 'good' parent doesn't allow consequences? Discipline is hard at the time it is given, but in the end it brings righteousness. And, Bad things do come from Satan. He is an angel of light waiting to devour you. He never has your best interest in his heart, as God does.

I believe good things come from God and bad things come from Satan. But that's just my belief.

And I respect your beliefs :huh2:

Brad

Just above here is a prime example of why a lot of people are turned off to religion too... And you've all been talking about it all day but I don't think it's sinking in... Let me have a stab at it...

Steve and Carrie make statements such as, "I believe prostitution should not be legal because......" Which I think is great because they are sharing their belief.

Contrary to that delivery, Patty says, "well prostitution should not be legal because it's a sin and and it's against God's will - just read the bible." That's not sharing your belief it's stating an absolute! It shows no respect for anyone else's beliefs. It's imposing your belief on someone else and is passing a judgment upon them at the same time! This would be no different than someone else saying, "well anyone that believes God specifically sent them a lapband commercial is a raving lunatic with serious insecurities."

Both are equally offending in my book.

Brad

Back when my oldest DD was in late Junior High, she began going to a local Baptist Church with one of her friends as opposed to going to the local Methodist where we had always gone. They had a bigger youth group and did puppet shows for the young kids....that sort of thing. I had no issue, I kept going to my usual church, and she would go just down the road.

One afternoon the preacher from the Baptist Church she was going to showed up at my door--and invited me to attend services with my DD. I explained I went to the Methodist Church, but appreciated the invitation, and he told me (now these are HIS words not mine)"There are places out there that call themselves churches that are far from it, but in the realm you and I are talking about, I look at it this way, we may all walk through different doors on Sunday mornings, but eventually we will all walk through the same Pearly Gates."

He told me what a great kid my DD was and went on his way.....with me thinking that this was truly a Christian man, in what I knew of him. He was kind, accepting, non judgemental, and made me feel good about ME, about the way I was raising my DD, about the choices I made.

I choose to look at it his way. And this pertains to my own beliefs---not trying to say it IS the way!!

Whether I walk in any door on Sunday, or whether as has been pointed out, I choose to worship on the side of a mountain, or in my easy chair.....where one goes is not getting them any closer, it is how they act in their day to day lives.

Kat

Thanks for sharing Kat! That is a win-win situation for all involved and that's fine parenting if you ask me!

I can't imagine what my mother would have said if I had got up on Sunday morning and told her I wasn't going to mass because I was now baptist! :glare:... Kinda makes me wish I'd have thought of it then... :huh2:

Brad

Just above here is a prime example of why a lot of people are turned off to religion too... And you've all been talking about it all day but I don't think it's sinking in... Let me have a stab at it...

Steve and Carrie make statements such as, "I believe prostitution should not be legal because......" Which I think is great because they are sharing their belief.

Contrary to that delivery, Patty says, "well prostitution should not be legal because it's a sin and and it's against God's will - just read the bible." That's not sharing your belief it's stating an absolute! It shows no respect for anyone else's beliefs. It's imposing your belief on someone else and is passing a judgment upon them at the same time! This would be no different than someone else saying, "well anyone that believes God specifically sent them a lapband commercial is a raving lunatic with serious insecurities."

Both are equally offending in my book.

Brad

Brad, you are right. I apologize. Will you forgive me? I do feel that most of the time I have stated that these are my beliefs, and if I didn't say 'I believe' it's mostly because I felt that everyone here that I was talking to knows me and knows that that's what I believe. Either way, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to disrespect you.

Thanks for sharing Kat! That is a win-win situation for all involved and that's fine parenting if you ask me!

I can't imagine what my mother would have said if I had got up on Sunday morning and told her I wasn't going to mass because I was now baptist! :glare:... Kinda makes me wish I'd have thought of it then... :huh2:

Brad

My parents were like yours in some ways. I had to go to church unless I was sick and in bed too ill to go. Same with church functions, etc. Catholic. I used to be a recovering Catholic, I have recovered. ;o)

But... my parents were cool with me going to other churches and I did when I was growing up. I'd spend the night with friends and go to their church in the mornings. I'd come home and tell them about it and they were fine. They encouraged any church function regardless of religion but I never came home saying I went Satan worshiping either. ;o)

I am a CCD drop out. I just flat out refused to go. I hated it with a passion, thought it was stupid (and it was), and refused to go. I was not one (growing up) to dig my heels in the ground and refuse something my parents told me to do. So when I was THAT dead set on no CCD they respected my feelings. They weren't happy with it but they understood it was totally against my personality to flat out refuse to do something they told me so they must have realized I had good reason and I did. I did have to find something productive to do on Wednesday nights and I did that too, I joined Jr. Achievement.

In some ways my parents were somewhat unrealistic about religion but in other ways they were very cool about it. It just depended on the circumstances.

Brad, you are right. I apologize. Will you forgive me? I do feel that most of the time I have stated that these are my beliefs, and if I didn't say 'I believe' it's mostly because I felt that everyone here that I was talking to knows me and knows that that's what I believe. Either way, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to disrespect you.

She didn't understand some might find that tone offensive, well bless her heart. (I'm sorry - I couldn't hold that back)

No seriously... You have my forgiveness. The more tolerant we are (within reason) the more understanding we become. I love listening to all points of view and then coming to a conclusion for myself. I just don't like being told what I HAVE to believe. I believe you are a very good and caring person.

My parents were like yours in some ways. I had to go to church unless I was sick and in bed too ill to go. Same with church functions, etc. Catholic. I used to be a recovering Catholic, I have recovered. ;o)

But... my parents were cool with me going to other churches and I did when I was growing up. I'd spend the night with friends and go to their church in the mornings. I'd come home and tell them about it and they were fine. They encouraged any church function regardless of religion but I never came home saying I went Satan worshiping either. ;o)

I am a CCD drop out. I just flat out refused to go. I hated it with a passion, thought it was stupid (and it was), and refused to go. I was not one (growing up) to dig my heels in the ground and refuse something my parents told me to do. So when I was THAT dead set on no CCD they respected my feelings. They weren't happy with it but they understood it was totally against my personality to flat out refuse to do something they told me so they must have realized I had good reason and I did. I did have to find something productive to do on Wednesday nights and I did that too, I joined Jr. Achievement.

In some ways my parents were somewhat unrealistic about religion but in other ways they were very cool about it. It just depended on the circumstances.

Your parents were very understanding indeed. Unfortunately my mother is one of those hypocrites that thinks her religion is THE WORD... Period... Growing up she'd even make comments dissing other religions like, "well the Baptists are weird, they don't allow people to dance." :huh2:

Brad