pictures in my mind

paula · August 2, 2005

Crystal - look how small you were????? WOW! ((((((LOVE those 80's glasses, dont worry, I had some myself, LOL))))))

Spudboy was absolutely darling! He seemed like a very content baby. You are/were blessed!

mousecrazy · August 2, 2005

Vinesqueen, this is a very interesting topic. And, girl, you were so 80's!! I"m going to look for a picture like that too. I clearly remember in high school that I weighed 135!!!! I was HUGE! If you're around 50 years old or so, you'll understand what I'm going to offer as an explanation of my body dismorphia: TWIGGY. Pencil thin was in, and I was a normal sized girl...but not a stick. You can imagine if I was 5' 7" and 135 and thought I was so fat, how that lead to diet after diet, which worked, but then failed, and plus I gained 10-20 pounds each time. Add that up over the next 30 years, and you end up with me: approaching 300, with no end in sight! So, I know I need to change my body image, since I've had the same one for 30 years. Thanks for the great thought-provoking topic, and continuing to bring it up for thought! Cindy

paula · August 2, 2005

Thanks for the great thought-provoking topic, and continuing to bring it up for thought! Cindy

I agree.

adding to my above reply: since I now weigh less then I did when I was in high school, I honestly dont have any picture or size to aim for. BUT I did when I started this journey... my wedding picture - taken in 1989, I weighed exactly 202.

vinesqueen · August 2, 2005

I know Paula. But of course, I thought I was gi-normous when that pix was taken because I weighed about 180. I am pretty sure I was about a size 12-14 in that pix, but I might have been as "big" as a size 16. I always thought I was huge in high school because at 5'5" and 150 pound is huge, but looking through old year book photos.. I looked the same as everyone else

I have to remind and remind and remind myself that I am not built like anyone else. And by that extention, no one is built like anyone else either. A size 14 looks differently on me than it looks on other people.

I just know that I have to change my head picture. I have to accept that I'm not ugly, that at best I'm not plain looking.

I'm laughing because I don't think I could find glasses that big. And yes, my hair cut is what you think it is... I can't atually bring myslef to type the word...

Marimaru · August 2, 2005

Wow, I didn't see this thread originally. It's a great thing.

It's funny, someone said something about looking down at their legs and seeing the same big legs, I'm right there too! However, I can tell a difference in myself between now and older pictures, AND I'm starting to see a difference in the mirror. I've been stuck at the same weight for a while, but I think my stupid brain is starting to finally catch up with the idea that I'm 50 lbs gone! I actually thought to myself today "hey, you are lookin' pretty good!" It's all relative of course, I'm nowhere near goal, so I have plenty more to lose, but 230 looks way better than 280 any day!

I need to find some pictures from when I was in Jr. High, and my dad had me on diets because I was a HUGE 165 lbs. Not that he ever called me huge, but putting me on the scale every day sure sends a message.

For WAY too long, I knew I was "chubby" but really didn't think I was "that bad". It was probably 2 years ago that I actually started seeing myself as 'fat' and admitting to it. If I find a picture where I 'want to be' or close to it, I'll post it here as well

vinesqueen · August 3, 2005

I think it is just as important for those of us who don't have a thiner picture to find one. Or rather, make one up.

I made Kathy take down her "fat" pix from her fridge. Just seeing that fat pix reinforces the fat mind-image.

The only pix I had of me for the longest time was a horrible pix my parents took of me. I was in a bathing suit and they made me stick my belly out as far as I possibly could so I would look as fat as possible. I belive the theory was so that I would be so disgusted with my self I would be forced to change my behaviors.

But if the only way we see ourselves is in a horrible fat picture, how can we see ourselves any other way?

I think I we don't have a real picture, we need to find one of someone who we "think" we would like to look like. Take that pix and morph our head onto that body.

I've been really struggling lately with my self image. Okay, I've been struggling with it most of my entire life.

Marimaru · August 5, 2005

I love that song. Or at least it was in song form the first time I heard it.

Good stuff.

Jachut · August 6, 2005

Im the opposite too - my conscious mind is telling me I'm fat, my body is telling me it doesnt want to bear this much weight but in my head I look the same as I did 25kg ago.

partly that's true of course - the fatter you get the less you notice extra weight. But if I do happen to see a photo of myself, particularly standing next to other people, I'm HORRIFIED. Im 40kg overweight but in photos I can see that every part of me is bigger than other people.

When I look in the mirror I honestly dont see it. I make effort every day and go out feeling good. I still buy nice clothes, wear make up, get my hair done. Its only how I feel that has really alerted me to the fact that I have to do something.

DevilMayKare · August 9, 2005

The only pix I had of me for the longest time was a horrible pix my parents took of me. I was in a bathing suit and they made me stick my belly out as far as I possibly could so I would look as fat as possible. I belive the theory was so that I would be so disgusted with my self I would be forced to change my behaviors.

Oh my. What a horrible thing for someone to do to their kid! I'm so sorry they did that to you.

I remember taking a bottle of aspirin in 5th grade after my mother told me she was embarrassed to be seen with me. I think it was the same mindset that I would feel so bad I would change my behaviors. And as far as families go, mine was relatively good.

But regarding visualizing our "thin" selves... since thin or fat, short or tall we're all going to end up as wrinkled old hags (or...what's the masculine form of "hag"??) in the end, perhaps we should visualize our souls. I don't mean in any sort of religious way--but in a fundamental recognition of who we are. Maybe because I only know people on this forum thru words in cyberspace I have a very distinct "picture" of some "essences" on here. Vines, your indomitable, generous spirit comes bounding thru. If you could see your "Soul" (for lack of a better term) in my mind's eye you would surely smile.

vinesqueen · August 9, 2005

thank you for your kind words, <3 Kare-Bear. I needed to hear such kindness, because I cannot be kind to myself, no one is harder on me than I am, not even my mother. One of the reasons I tell everyone to be kind to themselves, it will hopefully serve as a reminder to me to be kind to me. Doesn't work as often as I would like.

You are, of course, right. That we should be focusing on our souls and tending to that which is not temporal. But I am a creature of vanity, which is not entirely good for my soul. I want to look good, I want to feel good. And these are matters of the physical world, not spiritual needs, wants, or even desires.

I was banded for purely physical vanity. Well, that and the fear of a lingering death from resperatory failure. 100% of my other attempts at weight loss were purely based on physical desire on my part. Vanity again.

I do not know if souls have a shape that corresponds to a physical apperance. I cannot imagine they would, since our journeys would be limited to that shape, and the experiences that shape or condition give to us.

I do, however, know that if I cannot picture something in my mind, I cannot achieve it on this plain of exhistance. I know that for ages the picture of me, in my mind was that horrible brown bathing suit, clinging to my wet body, my hair in a rat's nest tangle from the cold Water. Fat and ugly, fat and ugly, fat and ugly.

My mind's picture of me has always been distorted, whether it was from a temporary but horrific case of poison oak, or the things that other people told me was reality.

The picture on the previous page is neither distorted, nor fat and ugly. Kind of dopey, but not ugly, and certianly not fat. If I change the picture I see in my mind, perhaps I can change my reality.

Dannie's Darlin · August 9, 2005

Crystal,

As I read through all these I think about how I have been to ashamed to even talk about how I feel. It is sad that so many of us have been hurting because of the dumb excess weight we are carrying. Both physical and mental weight. As a kid I was skinny, always being told to eat more. I can remember trying to make myself eat meat. I would chew, chew and still couldn't make myself swallow it. As a teenager I worked at J.C. Penney's and remember buying size 13 or 15 and thinking I was so fat. After getting married and having my first child I was still slim according to pictures of me holding my daughter. But with each subsequent child I gained more and more. Been on so many diets and programs. My highest weight was 251 and now at about 229 I have lots to lose. In some ways I am afraid to be thin since I don't know if I can trust myself to be thin. What a case I am.

Debbie

DevilMayKare · August 10, 2005

I want to look good, I want to feel good. And these are matters of the physical world, not spiritual needs, wants, or even desires.

<...My mind's picture of me has always been distorted, whether it was from a temporary but horrific case of poison oak, or the things that other people told me was reality. >

WHY O WHY is it so much easier to believe the bad things people tell us than the good? Vines, I am sure you have had people tell you that you are beautiful and sexy. You're such a powerhouse--how could they not? I look at your picture and can so easily imagine you kicking ass in judo. NOT sexy? I seriously doubt it. And I seriously doubt that there weren't any guys who expressed that. But what do we remember and what do we allow to shape our self-perception? Usually the bad stuff.

What do I remember more... my wedding vows with the man who thought I was beautiful enough to marry him, or my mother's words: "No one wants to watch a bride waddle up the aisle."???

(I'm divorced, so I suppose those vows HAVE left my head! lol)

Maybe... whatever works for you IS my mantra, but I don't think you are going to change your reality if you give the bad things more credance than the good.

Yeah, but life IS vanity so it's hard to escape ! You know why I got banded? Because of pointlessness, hopelessness--existential ennui. I don't know if losing weight will ultimately make me feel different, but getting banded seemed like a good step to take before I did something REALLY drastic.

Oh, but I didn't really mean to get into that. (Please don't get the idea I'm depressed--I'm not at all. It's a practical take on my personal existence.) But now about vanity and souls and the state of our physical beings... at what point are we satisfied? Does being thin do it? Because I've lost over thirty pounds and can already see the new lines in my face. If I'm skinny but look 20 years older am I going to feel good about it?

Doubt it.

Somewhere in this it seems like I'm going to have to attain some sort of acceptance of my soul. Is a "light" spirit more easily celebrated than a "heavy" one?

I guess we'll see, uh?

I am not going to re-read this msg. Let me know if it makes any sense.

vinesqueen · August 10, 2005

I have to laugh, I actually have a Brown Belt in Judo. DH and I actually had the same judo instructor about 15 years apart... And most of the time, I know that I'm a sex kitten. ... And yes, your post made perfect sense...

I suppose for me it is easier to believe the negative than the positive because I heard the negative far more than the positive. Maybe because the wolves were always threatening to eat me, it was just easier to be on my guard, to be safe. If all you hear is negative, then when you hear positive it is foreign and something to be distrusted.

I've been working on changing the audio tapes for many years. I've use daily positive afformations for years, and I have indeed seen results. I know there is a lot of literature about doing this but I haven't seen anything about changing the pictures.

I figure that I need all the tools in my tool box I can possibly cram. I need all the tools I can learn to use.

If I change the way I look at myself, if I change the mental picture I have of me, then I am not locked into the previous picture. Its sort of like when I rejected the picture of girls I was given at school. I have to reject that horrible bathing suit image. I have to accept that I was at one time the perfect size for me. I just have to be able to know what that looks like. I may never change the picture in my mind completely.

But when and if I get to a size 14, I will know that I am not the same size as the woman who wears a 26. I will be able to look at the mirror and compare the that image with the image in the photographs.

You are right, how do we know when to be satisfied? When is good enough actually good enough? I choose a size 12-14 because I remember how I physically felt. I remember how I could work physically demanding all day, how I could do yard work and dig holes and chop firewood and all the I remember how it felt to be an active person.

Sex wasn't better at size 14 than it was at a size 26. Sex is a brain thing.

My face is thinner too. I notice that my eyes are a little crepy looking. (I know that isn't spelled right. I mean crepy like crep paper, not serial killer crepy). But my grandfather was married to a beautiful woman who we all thought had been a Showgirl. At 80 Ruthie was still very beautiful, even though she looked "crumply" as my spudboy so eloquently put it. Ruthie was no less beautiful with all her wonderful wrinkles than my Grandma Daisy who at 92 has hardly a wrinkle.

loopylou · August 10, 2005

Vines, Just on the brown bathing suit photo.... I wonder if instead of fighting that image you could think about reframing it - metaphorically I mean. Instead of seeing the picture (in your head or in reality) and thinking 'yuck' or about how painful that whole experience was, could you perhaps look at the lovely young girl with complete compassion and understanding? Could you say to your younger self "Darling one, you have been hurt and feel so much pain, but I am here and I love you, you dont ever have to feel badly again!" So that when that picture comes up in your mind you look upon it with tenderness and as a reminder of your promise to care for yourself and treat yourself with kindness.

vinesqueen · August 10, 2005

I actually need to reject it because it is a false image. I need to replace that with a positive image. As a general rule, yours is probably good advice but it doesn't work for what I am trying to achieve.

If I don't reject it and replace it with a realistic picture and positive picure then how will I ever have a positive self picture? I know where I've been. I know what I've been through, but to go somewhere new, I have to have a destination in mind. For me, that destination looks like a size 14 or so.

I have always had a fat woman living in my head. My body dismoryphia has always had me fat, even when I clearly wasn't. The picture of me in my head was/is fat. If I change that picture to one of when I normal, then perhaps it will be easier to get there.

If we have never been to a city like, Moscow Russia, and we have never seen pictures of it, how will we know when we get there? There are signs, but we don't read cryillic and we have no translator. How will we know when we get there? We may have read discription of Red Square, but how will we know once we get there? How will we know we are in Moscow and not Prauge?

If we have pictures of Moscow, or a tour book we will have a better idea that we have actually reached our destination. We can look at the pictures of Red Square and look at where we are standing and be able to say, "Hey look at me! I'm at my goal!"

By changing the picture in my mind I hope to be able to do the same thing.