Oh, the lying!

[Djmohr 6,965]

This is always a topic that gets people riled up. Honestly when I was right out of surgery and losing weight like crazy I had no problem sharing my story with those that were truly interested. In fact I thought I would help others understand that WLS and obesity are not very well understood.

As time has gone on I have learned that telling everyone really brings with it nosey people who simply choose to debate whether or not I made a good decision. Or the gossip monger so who are simply waiting to see when I fail and gain it all back. Or the skinny people who have never had to deal with dieting and clearly don't look at obesity as a disease.

I am more choosy now about who I share with and this is mostly to not have to deal with the bs that comes along with sharing with the wrong people. People can be cruel and honestly I have in fact been treated poorly by my obese so called friends. You really do find out who your friends really are when you share such personal information.

I get riled up when someone says that choosing not to share means you are embarrassed. I am not embarrassed by having WLS at all. This usually comes from people who have yet to experience what it's like to live post weight loss. I have no problem telling people exactly what I think and can deal with whatever comes my way but when people really are not interested in the truth and want to hang on to every crappy story out there about WLS you are not going to change their opinions. They have to be ready to want to change.

Lastly I would say to share or not share is 100% a personal choice. It is none of anyone's business what I do with my body. If I choose to tell someone it is just that, my choice. It does NOT mean I am embarrassed by my decision to cure this disease.

[Alex Brecher 10,485]

@@Cape Crooner, yes, it is a very difficult decision! Lying never feels good, especially when it is to people whom you care about or even to people whom you don’t have any negative feelings towards. It’s tough because it’s hard to just tell a select few, but like the others said, sometimes there’s the urge or the sense of duty to tell someone who may benefit from knowing. I guess we each need to find our own balance between telling, sort of telling, and not telling.

[IncredibleShrinkingMan 437]

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

[Cape Crooner 589]

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

Okay, but when people ask HOW did you do it? And I answer doesn't include WLS, you I am not telling the truth.

So philosophically speaking, is a failure to answer with a truthful answer a lie?

[Babbs 14,680]

@@Cape Crooner, yes, it is a very difficult decision! Lying never feels good, especially when it is to people whom you care about or even to people whom you don’t have any negative feelings towards. It’s tough because it’s hard to just tell a select few, but like the others said, sometimes there’s the urge or the sense of duty to tell someone who may benefit from knowing. I guess we each need to find our own balance between telling, sort of telling, and not telling.

YES! And that's our prerogative!

Jeez. If it's not breaking the law, we don't have to DO or TELL anybody anything! Why are people on their damn high horses about this?

[PayItForward 207]

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

So, why didn't exercise and diet work for you in the past?

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

Okay, but when people ask HOW did you do it? And I answer doesn't include WLS, you I am not telling the truth.

So philosophically speaking, is a failure to answer with a truthful answer a lie?

Yes.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

I would gently suggest that any WLS patient (or anyone else) who's agonizing over telling or not telling those who ask about how they lost weight meditate on these questions:

Have you ever been sexually abused? Joined a cult? Switched religions? Lost your religion? Switched political parties? Voted for Ross Perot? Experimented in same-sex activities? Had an affair? Had a DUI? Smoked dope? Used other drugs? Filed for bankruptcy? Been fired? Had an STD? Been physically beaten by a spouse or sexual partner? Spent the night in jail? Is a cancer survivor? Had your gall bladder removed? Had an STD? Had a miscarriage or abortion? Had more than four sex partners (for women) and more than seven sex partners (for men)?

Question: Do you know what all those things have in common that are different from having had WLS?

Answer: People who know you -- friends, family, colleagues, neighbors -- don't come rushing up to you afterward and ask, "What did you do?! WTF happened?!"

But when you lose 100 pounds or more, some are going to ask how you lost weight. And how you choose to respond depends on who's asking and your mood, long-term needs, ideologies and other preferences.

For the record, I don't suffer from the need to tell others about my WLS. In fact, none of my most precious ideologies require me to be 100% transparent with anyone, including my therapist or even my husband.

BTW, one of my most prized values now is that I deserve a lot better self-care than I gave myself pre-WLS. Three years ago when I started this journey I appreciated that WLS was so little understood by my extended family, best friends, colleagues, clients, etc. and that I had so much work to do on myself that I had neither the strength nor the interest to become a WLS poster child to thousands of people. (Yes, I do know that many people.)

My choice to remain on the down low about my own WLS has worked very well for me. I hope that others' choices to be transparent or private or somewhere in between is working well for them, too.

[Valentina 2,642]

I believe that we all have to "pick our battles" through our beliefs and inner self.

We have to remember that we are talking about WLS here--nothing else.

What we decide is best for ourselves ----what we can lay down at night with and not torment ourselves about whether we "told the truth" or not to OUR OWN CONTENTMENT is completely up to us--the individual.

To bring other situations---other dilemnas --other awful traumas--past sins--past horror stories is not on the consciousness of this thread.

We all have to make the decision of whether to be "open" about our WLS for ourselves.

There are hundreds of different scenarios about "to tell" or "not to tell" and most will fall somewhere between the two. That is up to each of us to decide and deal with the consequences of our decision.

Be at peace with yourself. What feels right within yourself. Do whatever you know you can live with without "lowering your eyes".

On this date: MY opinion.

Prayers going up---for all of us.

[LipstickLady 25,682]

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

Okay, but when people ask HOW did you do it? And I answer doesn't include WLS, you I am not telling the truth.

So philosophically speaking, is a failure to answer with a truthful answer a lie?

Which part is not truthful?

[Cape Crooner 589]

• @VSGAnn2014 and @LipstickLady

Again, I don't think you're following me...

Some people rationalize being less than truthful when the downside of honesty outweighs the upside of the truth, as in the husband's response to the question "Honey, do these pants make my butt look big?" I'm okay with that.

In terms of Ann's list of shameful secrets, let me say two things; First of all, I do not consider WLS remotely sinful. I am confident that I did everything in my power to lose weight "on my own" and despite everything, I was on a track to die prematurely and most like face 3 more expensive joint replacement surgeries. WLS added a decade tomy life and most likely saved medical expenses by avoiding at least 1 of the 3 surgeries. I am not withholding the truth about my WLS because I am anyway ashamed of it.

I also have no trouble withholding the truth from marginal acquaintances or strangers simply in the name of efficiency. If the lady at the dry cleaners notices I lost a lot of weight in between waiting on customers, I'm okay giving her a simple "thanks, was a lot of work"...

Second, had I committed any of Ann's common sins, I can't imagine a close friend asking me if I'd ever... (fill in the blank). But ALL ASK - HOW DID YOU LOSE SO MUCH WEIGHT SO FAST?

My moral dilemma comes when we get to my closests friends; friends who I would call if I developed cancer. And the fact as a Christian, I hold being truthful as a Commandment.

So, why not "just tell them", as some of you have suggested?

Well, my wife wants us to keep it secret. Her reasoning is quite sound. All of our friends are married, for me tell my close male friends means also telling their wives. And if their wives are going to be told, then my wife's feels obligated to also tell her girlfriends who she's closer to than the wives of my friends. Of course now my wife's close friends husbands know and voila, 20 people know -- time for a press release! And I hold my marriage scared and I honor my wife's requests.

And oh ya, we've already told 100 people less than the truth in the last 6 months and then the find out...

Which brings me to my...

di·lem·ma

diˈlemə,dīˈlemə/

noun

1. a situation in which a difficult choice has to be made between two or more alternatives, especially equally undesirable ones.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Cape Crooner

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

Cape Crooner -- I think I know why we're not tracking each other.

You think the following list of things are "sins."

Have you ever been sexually abused? Joined a cult? Switched religions? Lost your religion? Switched political parties? Voted for Ross Perot? Experimented in same-sex activities? Had an affair? Had a DUI? Smoked dope? Used other drugs? Filed for bankruptcy? Been fired? Had an STD? Been physically beaten by a spouse or sexual partner? Spent the night in jail? Is a cancer survivor? Had your gall bladder removed? Had an STD? Had a miscarriage or abortion? Had more than four sex partners (for women) and more than seven sex partners (for men)?

I have no idea how you could imagine that being sexually or physically abused or most of those other secrets I hypothesized are "sins," although voting for Ross Perot might have been.

Good luck.

[IncredibleShrinkingMan 437]

@@PayItForward - why on earth does that matter? It's working now. Yes, the surgery may be the tipping factor, but it's still a perfectly truthful statement that I did it with diet and exercise, because that, too, is an indispensable part (some people have this surgery and never lose a pound because they don't do that). If you were to ask me "did you have surgery" and I said "no," that would be the lie. See my response to @@Cape Crooner below...

As my post admits, it is impossible to give a completely truthful answer. It's just saying more or saying less. You might argue that a certain fact (i.e., surgery) is so significant that not saying it is a lie, but I disagree. Therefore, even saying you had the surgery isn't completely truthful, because there are all kinds of other things you've done too...changed your thinking, gotten a good support group, taken up new hobbies...nor can any one of us have any idea what we have really undergone to achieve our results.

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

Okay, but when people ask HOW did you do it? And I answer doesn't include WLS, you I am not telling the truth.

So philosophically speaking, is a failure to answer with a truthful answer a lie?

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

So, why didn't exercise and diet work for you in the past?

>

This has been a very philosophically oriented day on Bariatric Pal. A lot of people are posting about the meaning of lying and I will be painfully obvious and say, "you haven't lied unless you've said something that's not true." LOL. If you say you have done this through diet and exercise, you cannot call it lying, because that is absolutely necessary. This is why telling "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" is a hard thing to swear to on the stand because an infinite number of things are true, just like an infinite number of things are false, and therefore there are an infinite number of things that are true that you don't end up saying, even about a very particular matter. Back to you: there's nothing in your story that strikes me as a lie, so don't apply that label, especially seeing as it seems to bother you.

Okay, but when people ask HOW did you do it? And I answer doesn't include WLS, you I am not telling the truth.

So philosophically speaking, is a failure to answer with a truthful answer a lie?

Yes.

[Cape Crooner 589]

Cape Crooner -- I think I know why we're not tracking each other.

You think the following list of things are "sins."

Have you ever been sexually abused? Joined a cult? Switched religions? Lost your religion? Switched political parties? Voted for Ross Perot? Experimented in same-sex activities? Had an affair? Had a DUI? Smoked dope? Used other drugs? Filed for bankruptcy? Been fired? Had an STD? Been physically beaten by a spouse or sexual partner? Spent the night in jail? Is a cancer survivor? Had your gall bladder removed? Had an STD? Had a miscarriage or abortion? Had more than four sex partners (for women) and more than seven sex partners (for men)?

I have no idea how you could imagine that being sexually or physically abused or most of those other secrets I hypothesized are "sins," although voting for Ross Perot might have been.

Good luck.

You're correct. I read your post yesterday and replied this morning. The things I remembered you stating yesterday were DUI and SID's, not the others, so the word Sin came to mind.

Clearly, I should have used a different label.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Cape Crooner

[Jen35 283]

I will be at my 3 year mark next month. When I decided on surgery, I was certain that I wouldn't tell anyone except those closest to me. But, like you, as I started rapidly losing weight, it's hard to lie to family and friends. So I became very open about my surgery. Yes, I got some judgmental people but I feel that is their problem not mine. And if they are a close friend and judging me - maybe they're not such a great friend. I didn't announce it to the world - only those who I felt comfortable telling. But only by talking about WLS are we going to remove the stigma attached to it. If we act like it's a dirty little secret then we are just reinforcing the view that this is something to be ashamed of. Some of the people at work know - mainly because I felt comfortable with them knowing (and I have a co-worker who had the sleeve a year prior to mine).

The main issue I had was that a couple people I told then felt it was okay to constantly ask me about my weight. "What are you down to now?" as if it is okay to just ask someone what they weigh. And with them, it became the only topic of conversation. HELLO I am more than my weight - I have other things to talk about. At first it was nice to get the attention and for people to notice my weight loss, but at some point when everyone says "wow you look great!" you start to wonder "did I really look that bad before?" Now that I'm 3 years out, it's a lot easier. This is my new norm and I don't really have to tell anyone unless I want to. I sometimes share my experience with others just because I would have loved to have someone do that for me.

[Cape Crooner 589]

I will be at my 3 year mark next month. When I decided on surgery, I was certain that I wouldn't tell anyone except those closest to me. But, like you, as I started rapidly losing weight, it's hard to lie to family and friends. So I became very open about my surgery. Yes, I got some judgmental people but I feel that is their problem not mine. And if they are a close friend and judging me - maybe they're not such a great friend. I didn't announce it to the world - only those who I felt comfortable telling. But only by talking about WLS are we going to remove the stigma attached to it. If we act like it's a dirty little secret then we are just reinforcing the view that this is something to be ashamed of. Some of the people at work know - mainly because I felt comfortable with them knowing (and I have a co-worker who had the sleeve a year prior to mine).

The main issue I had was that a couple people I told then felt it was okay to constantly ask me about my weight. "What are you down to now?" as if it is okay to just ask someone what they weigh. And with them, it became the only topic of conversation. HELLO I am more than my weight - I have other things to talk about. At first it was nice to get the attention and for people to notice my weight loss, but at some point when everyone says "wow you look great!" you start to wonder "did I really look that bad before?" Now that I'm 3 years out, it's a lot easier. This is my new norm and I don't really have to tell anyone unless I want to. I sometimes share my experience with others just because I would have loved to have someone do that for me.

Again Jen, my issue isn't with telling people I had WLS. My issue is the fact that's I've been lying to them about HOW I LOST SO MUCH WEIGHT.

I'm not ashamed of WLS, I'm ashamed that I ended up lying to so many close friends...

But as I said about 5 posts back, I'm just going to bite the bullet and stick to the script. Although the newest wrinkle has been all the people coming up to me and saying "you're doing so well keeping your weight off. what's your secret?"

Geesh!

Edited April 21, 2016 by Cape Crooner