You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

396, I can't speak for the other women on this board but I would not have a man dictating to me about my choices in this regard. At the end of the day it is a woman's body and her choice.

Funny how some people who are recent converts to Christianity become the most vocal, intolerant zealots trying to ram their ideology down the throats of others.

It is 2007. You may want to contemporize a little bit. I am sorry, but excerpts from the bible don't really have a whole lot of relevance in the lives of many in the modern world.

Susannah

Whether you agree with this thread or not, there is no need to put Christians down either........not all Christians are intolerant, or narrow minded or arrogant....to say all that is actually ignorant....

I agree, In fact for those who are Christians, GOd gives us free will...

I just can't understand people who have "accidents" or make "mistakes" in their lives over and over again. How hard can it be to try and not get pregnant? I'm not saying that accidents do not happen but over and over again? I think not.

I know a guy that has gotten several girls pregnant and the girls have either had abortions or used the morning after pill. It doesn't appear that this guy will learn about responsibility until one of these girls says that she is going to keep her baby. Welcome home daddy!

Totally agree!

396,I am a Christian and I would never impose my beliefs or views on anyone else.God gave us the freedom to make our own decisions whether they are right or wrong. He is the only one who can judge us accordingly.He is the only one who knows why someone does something and what they were feeling when they did it. So, instead of going around protesting everything that people do and focussing all of your attention on everyone elses sins, take a moment to reflect on your own actions throughout your life, and see what you can do to make yourself worthy of the pearly gates

396,I am a Christian and I would never impose my beliefs or views on anyone else.God gave us the freedom to make our own decisions whether they are right or wrong. He is the only one who can judge us accordingly.He is the only one who knows why someone does something and what they were feeling when they did it. So, instead of going around protesting everything that people do and focussing all of your attention on everyone elses sins, take a moment to reflect on your own actions throughout your life, and see what you can do to make yourself worthy of the pearly gates

I think that this is a thoughtful and generous post. It is God's business to do the judging, is it not?

So if someone is raping someone in front of your house, you just close the shutters because God gave the rapist the freedom to make the decision for himself?

So if someone is raping someone in front of your house, you just close the shutters because God gave the rapist the freedom to make the decision for himself?

Well, from my perspective the two acts are different. You see, the rapist is perpetrating his act upon an adult or a child who is fully cognisant of the willful malice that is being done. Now, as you may know, I have a different concept as to when life begins. I believe that life begins once the foetus is able to live outside the womb. And thus I believe that aborting a foetus is not at all similar to raping, torturing, or killing an adult or a child. The foetus is certainly genetically unique but it is not really here; it is without its own thoughts, imagination, or personality. Its destruction is not going to damage the emotional fabric of those around it the way the death of child or an adult will hurt those people who lose him. And certainly the rape or torture of a child or an adult will not only smash the psychological structure of the individual who has been damaged but will also affect those people who are close, who love the ruined individual. And in the case of a ruined child society may also end up suffering as well.

The issue of abortion is much more complicated than that of rape. Yes, it can be argued that, depending on your definition as to when life begins, there are two victims here. And certainly no sane woman is going to say, "Yippee! Here's a chance for me to have an abortion! I've been dying to have one for ages and now here is my opportunity!"

It is a well known fact that I am one of the atheists on this site. I would, however, like to posit that if there is a God, a personal God, then surely He is not going to allow the souls of those aborted foetuses languish in some sort of eternal rubbish heap. He, if He does exist, is fully aware of the array of reasons which drive women to have abortions and He may find some of these forgivable. My hunch is that the Christian cris35 has much the same idea and it is for this reason that she is advising you to attend to the beam in your own eye instead of obsessing on the mote in your brother's eye in her delicate and discreet manner. Of course I may be wrong and cris35 should jump on in and give me a verbal smack if I am.

Well, from my perspective the two acts are different. You see, the rapist is perpetrating his act upon an adult or a child who is fully cognisant of the willful malice that is being done.

Well then I guess it's ok if he drugs the victim first so she doesn't know about the rape. Problem solved!

The foetus is certainly genetically unique but it is not really here; it is without its own thoughts, imagination, or personality.

Only because the baby's little developing body is hidden from view. One could reasonably argue that the same is true of a newborn or even a handicapped child (or adult), but it's not OK to kill them because of convenience.

if there is a God, a personal God, then surely He is not going to allow the souls of those aborted foetuses languish in some sort of eternal rubbish heap.

That's inconsequential to the discussion, although I do agree with you. But the presence of a soul is not what determines the value of a human being.

He, if He does exist, is fully aware of the array of reasons which drive women to have abortions and He may find some of these forgivable.

God will also forgive the rapist, but that doesn't mean his actions are ever acceptable.

This has always been a loaded question to me. If you don't pick choice, you've picked a choice. If you pick choice, you give no choice to the one who doesn't get to vote but ends up dead. Now the one who ends up dead, in any other circumstances where they were killed by the hands of another, the other would be charged with manslaughter, 2nd degree manslaughter or murder.

cris35: Bravo! Well said. Good job. I agree with you!

If God can forgive a rapist, then he certainly can forgive a woman in anguish who has made the decision, whatever her reasons are, to have an abortion.

My question is, who appointed us God here on earth?

cris35: I'm wondering, do you believe in capital punishment?

Lapdancer: Fetuses cannot vote. They can't breathe outside their mothers' womb. They are little, tiny globs of tissue, with or without a beating heart. Therefore they can't tell you whether or not they want to be brought into this world by a woman who cannot, either physically or mentally, be responsible for them. You assume that all babies would want to be born under any circumstances. That may or may not be true. But it only makes sense that they do not have all the same rights that a fully developed baby has.

But all that is beside the point and believing it or not has nothing to do with my belief that it should never be a politically driven question. It should never be possible for the government to make the decision about abortion for women.

If God can forgive a rapist, then he certainly can forgive a woman in anguish who has made the decision, whatever her reasons are, to have an abortion.

He ABSOLUTELY forgives. But that does not make the original action right.

But it only makes sense that they do not have all the same rights that a fully developed baby has.

Just what IS a "fully developed baby"? Because it seems to me that human beings are NEVER "fully developed". At 12 weeks, the unborn baby is complete and only needs to grow and mature. With some body parts, that maturing takes another few months, few years, sometimes 15 or so years (reproductive organs), and sometimes a lifetime.

Lapdancer: Fetuses cannot vote. They can't breathe outside their mothers' womb. They are little, tiny globs of tissue, with or without a beating heart. Therefore they can't tell you whether or not they want to be brought into this world by a woman who cannot, either physically or mentally, be responsible for them. You assume that all babies would want to be born under any circumstances. That may or may not be true. But it only makes sense that they do not have all the same rights that a fully developed baby has.

But all that is beside the point and believing it or not has nothing to do with my belief that it should never be a politically driven question. It should never be possible for the government to make the decision about abortion for women.

Correction: You assume abortion is for first trimester. Abortions are performed up to a point when a fetus is viable outside the womb.

A fetus is the only composition of cells that comprise a human being from onset.

see what you can do to make yourself worthy of the pearly gates

Cris -THe only way anyone can make make themselves "worthy" of heaven is a belief and trust in Jesus Christ. We are all unworthy based on our own actions because the standard is Jesus who was without sin and perfect. And none of us can measure up to that. And as for as imposing our beleifs as Christians on others we are called in Matt. 28 : 19 to "therefore go and make disciples of all nations..." So as a Christian it is our duty to tell others about Jesus and His standards. Not to mention that someone has to defend the lives that He created in these mother's wombs. He is the only one who can create life and if it was not His intent for that baby to be born then He would not have created it.

Lap_Dancer: You're right, in the first part of my post I was making an assumption that an abortion would be done very early on in a pregnancy. However in the second part of my post, I explained that whether or not the fetus is "viable" outside the womb is irrelevant to my belief that the government should not be making medical decisions for women in this country.

If we all did have the same beliefs and belonged to the same church, then it might make sense for the government to intervene, but the fact is that we do not all share the same beliefs and the only way this country can keep even a modicum of freedom for its' citizens is if we separate church and state. Otherwise, we could all wind up being the country (like Iraq) that is in a state of internal turmoil and war.