Finally, this barbaric practice can end!!!!

Because, even though I am not maternal and I didn't want to follow it through, I knew that this material was unique biological material. I would have been happier not to have been placed in this position. Please understand where I am coming from. I am expressing this point of view as an atheist. I do not believe in a God, and certainly not in the Christian version.

I understand where you are coming from completely. I was just curious as to why this was a difficult decision for you, and if it was because you were upset about taking a life, or the pain from the procedure.

For me, on top of it all, the procedure was very painful. and i did not stop bleeding for a long time. they had to keep me there for a long time whenall i wanted to do was run home to Rob and cry and confess to him.

I completely understand what you are saying. And in your point of view this was the best choice. But can I ask, if you thought it was just a division of cells at the point that you had it done, why it was so difficult for you?

I'll chime in here, too. For me the hardest thing was the way my future shifted in and out of focus for the few days it took us to decide what to do. For a short time I seriously considered getting married and having a baby, imagining what my life would be like with this man and a child. Thinking about one life versus another life is very heady stuff, and it was an emotional roller coaster. No matter how sure one is about the decision, it's a BIG one to choose not to explore that path and all its potentials.

Making the decision was the hard part. Once it was made, though, the procedure wasn't hard.

Yet people who have had vasectomies and tubal ligations get pregnant. How sure do you want us to be?

To have the baby? Or the abortion?

Lower rates than what? No one knows how many underground abortions were performed before legalization, precisely because they were underground. They are impossible to count.

And once again we come around to the fact that MOST people see a fundamental difference between an early-stage fetus inside an adult woman and a living, breathing separate human being. It's those people I believe will prevent the more extreme view--yours--from becoming the law of the land.

the rates of pregnancies after tubals and vasectomies are VERY VERY small, and even then, YOU ARE HAVING SEX!!! Our sexual organs were created for the sole purpose to make babies!! We cannot have sex without realizing that it is a possiblity that we will become pregnant. To use a term from Marjon, its silly to think so.

If I had been given time I would have gone forward and had the baby, putting it up for adoption.

It is "silly" to think that the rates did not increase. Yes, it is hard to have firm figures, but I can guarantee you that it is pure blindness of the obvious to say that we had no firm numbers so there was no increase in legalizing it.

I want to pose a question to those who are pro-choice and believe that it is not a baby...

You believe that it is just a bundle of multiplying cells, and is not a real life until after it is removed from the mother's body.

I believe it is a life from the moment the cells start multiplying.

If I am wrong, what harm is there? Some women are inconvinienced because they have to deal with the reulsts of their sexual actions.

What if you are wrong? All those babies that have died. Not even looking at it from a christian point of view. Just a pure...Life is important....point of view. What will you do if you are wrong?

I'll chime in here, too. For me the hardest thing was the way my future shifted in and out of focus for the few days it took us to decide what to do. For a short time I seriously considered getting married and having a baby, imagining what my life would be like with this man and a child. Thinking about one life versus another life is very heady stuff, and it was an emotional roller coaster. No matter how sure one is about the decision, it's a BIG one to choose not to explore that path and all its potentials.

Making the decision was the hard part. Once it was made, though, the procedure wasn't hard.

I guess I don't understand how, if it is that hard a decision, it could be so hard for you? You can always get pregnant again, provided the doc doesn't scar your uterus and render you infertile. If you feel it is not a life yet, why is it so hard to just dump this pregnancy and wait for the next?

ok i can't edit...let me reword that first sentence. LOL

I guess I don't understand, if you feel that it is not life, why it is such a hard decision. You can always get pregnant again, provided the doc doesn't scar your uterus and render you infertile. If you feel it is not a life yet, why is it so hard to just dump this pregnancy and wait for the next?

What will you do if you are wrong?

Even asking this question assumes an entire belief system that does not exist for many of us. Why would I have have to "do" anything if I am "wrong"?

I want to pose a question to those who are pro-choice and believe that it is not a baby...

You believe that it is just a bundle of multiplying cells, and is not a real life until after it is removed from the mother's body.

I believe it is a life from the moment the cells start multiplying.

If I am wrong, what harm is there? Some women are inconvinienced because they have to deal with the reulsts of their sexual actions.

What if you are wrong? All those babies that have died. Not even looking at it from a christian point of view. Just a pure...Life is important....point of view. What will you do if you are wrong?

That's a bizarre question. What do you mean, what will we do? You're implying that there is some third party that will be passing judgment. How is that not a Christian point of view? It sounds like you're imagining a sea of angry dead babies somewhere.

And what about women being "inconvenienced" because they were raped? Is that acceptable to you?

I stated this is not looking at it from a religious point of view. I am speaking just of a moral human being living on the earth with everyone else. Will you still believe this should be done if you find out that this is a real life?

Or do you believe that no life is impotant and we should all start walking around killing each other when we are inconvinienced? I am unclear as to what belief system you would have that would not give heavy weight the the value of a person's life.

ok i can't edit...let me reword that first sentence. LOL

I guess I don't understand, if you feel that it is not life, why it is such a hard decision. You can always get pregnant again, provided the doc doesn't scar your uterus and render you infertile. If you feel it is not a life yet, why is it so hard to just dump this pregnancy and wait for the next?

I said it was hard to make the decision, not to live with it. Life-altering decisions are big and emotional, and this was no different.

Hell, it just as hard to decide to GET pregnant when I was ready many years later.

And rape is unfortunate. I know, I have been raped. It happened when I was 16. And I can say right now that while it was a HORRID thing to have happen to me, but I still believe that the innocent life that results in it should not be punished for the sins of the father. The baby should be born, and put up for adoption.

But this argument, while it does happen, happens very very rarely. Thankfully.

I stated this is not looking at it from a religious point of view. I am speaking just of a moral human being living on the earth with everyone else. Will you still believe this should be done if you find out that this is a real life?

Or do you believe that no life is impotant and we should all start walking around killing each other when we are inconvinienced? I am unclear as to what belief system you would have that would not give heavy weight the the value of a person's life.

What do you mean by "a real life"? What possible new information could there be that could change the point of view that a fetus in its early stages is not a "baby"? Once again, MOST people see a difference between a developing fetus and a separate, breathing, fully-formed human. The line is in different places, indeed, but for most of us there is a line before which the adult woman's rights outweigh those of a clump of cells whose full humanity is, as yet, only potential.

I stated this is not looking at it from a religious point of view. I am speaking just of a moral human being living on the earth with everyone else. Will you still believe this should be done if you find out that this is a real life?

Or do you believe that no life is impotant and we should all start walking around killing each other when we are inconvinienced? I am unclear as to what belief system you would have that would not give heavy weight the the value of a person's life.

I have difficulty responding to your questions because the way you phrase your questions assumes points of view that I do not agree with. I do not agree that abortion is equal to "people walking around killing each other when they are inconvenienced." I do not agree with you that a person who supports a woman's right to choose believes that "no life is important." So it seems rather pointless to try to explain my belief system to you because you clearly are not open to the possibility that my views have value. In your world, anyone who supports a woman's right to choose is a baby killer who is pretty darn close to the human form of satan. It's hard to have a serious conversation with someone who is that closed minded.

But different people have different lines they draw in the sand. Who's line do we follow? I have no idea what scientific test could be done to prove that the baby is more than just a fetus. If I knew I would have created it and my paper would be in every paper on the planet. But if it comes around, and you are alive, and someone officially tells you "The baby you had and aborted was a baby, not just a fetus" would you have remorse? Or mourn for the loss of life? Would you try to get others to stop from having their abortions?

I have difficulty responding to your questions because the way you phrase your questions assumes points of view that I do not agree with. I do not agree that abortion is equal to "people walking around killing each other when they are inconvenienced." I do not agree with you that a person who supports a woman's right to choose believes that "no life is important." So it seems rather pointless to try to explain my belief system to you because you clearly are not open to the possibility that my views have value. In your world, anyone who supports a woman's right to choose is a baby killer who is pretty darn close to the human form of satan. It's hard to have a serious conversation with someone who is that closed minded.

Wow Marjon, I am quite surprised at the hatred you have here. This is quite extreme, bra, and I have been able to discuss this very calmly and professionally with everyone else here. Why so much venom?

If you feel it is pointless to dicuss this with me because you cannot understand my point of view, then that is fine. Back out of the debate. There are plenty of others willing to discuss this like adults.

But different people have different lines they draw in the sand. Who's line do we follow? I have no idea what scientific test could be done to prove that the baby is more than just a fetus. If I knew I would have created it and my paper would be in every paper on the planet. But if it comes around, and you are alive, and someone officially tells you "The baby you had and aborted was a baby, not just a fetus" would you have remorse? Or mourn for the loss of life? Would you try to get others to stop from having their abortions?

I was born into a world both full of life, and full of death. I was born into a world full of kindness and fairness and justice, and also full of brutality and betrayal. I did not choose any of it, but I was given the whole package as a gift. I love it all, and would not change a thing.