This topic was brought up in the HPV vaccine thread, and I wanted to get everybody's opinion on it.

I think that sex before marriage is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it, along with living together, gives couples a chance to see what their marriage might be like. Sex is a huge part of marriage, and bad sex can undermine a marriage, IMO. Plus, it helps you figure out if what you are feeling is true love or just plain lust.

I personally believe that the push to make teens abstain until marriage may actually be contributing to the high divorce rate. If people think that they have to be married to have sex, I think they might rush into a marriage because they might not know the difference between lust and love. Take my former roommate, for example. She and her boyfriend dated for 4 years before they got married. To my knowledge, they were both virgins when they married. They separated within 6 months of marrying and were officially divorced the day before their first anniversary. I really believe that the disgrace in having sex before marriage and living together (he was Mormon) contributed to the failure of their marriage. I think that if they had been allowed to see what each other was truly like, apart from dates, they wouldn't have gotten married.

I, for one, am extremely grateful that I was born when I was. I don't want to ever be married or have children. If I had been born in the '50s or even the '60s, that is what would have been expected of me. Heck, even now I get some odd looks when I tell people that I don't want to be married or have kids. I always get the same comments, "you'll change your mind when you're older" or "it's different when it's your own children". I usually just smile and nod because it is obvious at that point that they aren't going to listen to me. Forgive me, but I don't feel like having kids on the off chance that I won't despise them. It wouldn't be fair to the kid, especially if everyone is wrong and it isn't different with your own kids. I just plain dislike children that are older than several months old. They make me uncomfortable. I don't like the screaming, the whining, the sniffles and snot. Being around them literally makes me uncomfortable in my own skin.

Wheestin,

I had never heard of that either. I love the helium balloon thing though. It sure does make your voice sound funny. I never to to experience the other feeling unless I was at the dentist.

Carlene,

Do you still have that bed in your house? Just wondering... I can imagine something like that happening to me. LOL

Puddin,

Oh sweetie, don't beat yourself up over this. Believe it or not, most Christian religions believe there should be no sex before marriage. But, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen everyday! I know it doesn't happen to you everyday, but it does happen. You should be proud you waited as long as you did. Like Carlene said, you may have lost your virginity, but you haven't lost your virtue. You can still lead a good an virtuous life. There is not one of us who is without sin in our lives. We wouldn't have needed Jesus to come and die on the cross for our sins if we weren't all sinners. I know you are hurt right now, but this will pass. You will meet someone else and be happy!

~Joan~

I, for one, am extremely grateful that I was born when I was. I don't want to ever be married or have children. If I had been born in the '50s or even the '60s, that is what would have been expected of me. Heck, even now I get some odd looks when I tell people that I don't want to be married or have kids. I always get the same comments, "you'll change your mind when you're older" or "it's different when it's your own children". I usually just smile and nod because it is obvious at that point that they aren't going to listen to me. Forgive me, but I don't feel like having kids on the off chance that I won't despise them. It wouldn't be fair to the kid, especially if everyone is wrong and it isn't different with your own kids. I just plain dislike children that are older than several months old. They make me uncomfortable. I don't like the screaming, the whining, the sniffles and snot. Being around them literally makes me uncomfortable in my own skin.

Laurend, you and I must be soul sisters. That's exactly how feel except I don't even like the ones that are just a couple months old. I cannot stand to be around children. They grate on my nerves like nothing else in this world does. People would say the same thing to me when I was younger, and now that I'm almost 40 I can honestly say that I have not changed my mind. I knew at the age of 6 that I didn't ever want to be a mother. I've actually had people tell me that I'm selfish because I don't want children. Excuse me?!?!?! What's selfish is having children because you think you must have 2.3 children to have the appearance of a successful life and yet you don't have the time, money, or energy to raise them well.

That's exactly how feel except I don't even like the ones that are just a couple months old.

I like them when they are behaving and aren't pooping and peeing on me. If they start screeching, I send them back to mommy or daddy.

I have to say, kids are one of my biggest peeves. It drives me nuts when they are brought into public and won't behave and the parents do nothing. Do I understand that parents can't always control their kids? Of course. But I do think that they should take them home if they continue to cry or run around and bother people, especially in settings like movie theaters or restaurants. The other people are there to relax and have fun, not listen to or watch a bunch of rowdy kids!

I have to say, kids are one of my biggest peeves. It drives me nuts when they are brought into public and won't behave and the parents do nothing. Do I understand that parents can't always control their kids? Of course. But I do think that they should take them home if they continue to cry or run around and bother people, especially in settings like movie theaters or restaurants. The other people are there to relax and have fun, not listen to or watch a bunch of rowdy kids!

You got that right!

Having children is a very sanctifying experience. You cannot do it well if you're selfish. They beat the selfishness right out of you. People who are parents know this very, very well, which might make some of them mistakenly assume the opposite is true -- that if you don't want children it's because you're selfish. It is, in my opinion, a silly assumption. There are some very unselfish people in this world that don't have or want children.

Carlene: How long ago was your husband's marriage annuled?

My (late) husband's church annulment was in 1979.

Up until just a few years ago, I did not want kids. I adamantly did not want them. To the point that once, when I was 7 weeks late for my period (while on birth control, and also using spermicide, and also avoiding sex during ovulation as much as possible) my thoughts drifted to abortion. And up until a few years ago, I tried my best to convince DH to get snipped.

And I had known my whole life, up until then, that I did not want kids. When I was a child and we would play house, I never wanted to be the mom, I wanted to be the dad because that meant I could have a job and run the household, and I never wanted to have "babies" because - well, even back then at the ripe old age of what, 5? 6? I didn't want to be a mother.

What I always hated was when people would ask how long DH and I had been married (10 years in November), then ask how many kids we had, and when we said none they would assume one of us was infertileand APOLOGIZE to us for our misfortune. Or I'd hear, "But don't you want to give your husband children?" Or, "You'll change your mind once you grow up a litle more."

And this probably sounds weird, maybe it makes me sound like a bad potential parent, but even though we now want A CHILD (not children), I would be OK with it if something happened and I wasn't able to have them. I wouldn't be devastated or bummed. 4 years ago I was pleading with DH to get snipped, and had he done it I would still have no regrets.

If I could, I would probably get my tubes tied. Unfortunately, there aren't that many doctors out there who are willing to sterilize a young woman who hasn't had children. Seriously, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to experience pregnancy and childbirth, and then I see a colicky baby or a bratty 4 year-old and I remember why I don't want them. There aren't many situations more stressful for me than when my enire family gets together and it seems like I am surrounded by my cousin's young children. To be honest, if those situations occured more than a couple times a year, it would be enough to make me avoid my own family get-togethers.

Laurend, you and I must be soul sisters. That's exactly how feel except I don't even like the ones that are just a couple months old. I cannot stand to be around children. They grate on my nerves like nothing else in this world does. People would say the same thing to me when I was younger, and now that I'm almost 40 I can honestly say that I have not changed my mind. I knew at the age of 6 that I didn't ever want to be a mother. I've actually had people tell me that I'm selfish because I don't want children. Excuse me?!?!?! What's selfish is having children because you think you must have 2.3 children to have the appearance of a successful life and yet you don't have the time, money, or energy to raise them well.

Hah! You both fall into Green's camp. I have never found children to be sufficiently interesting that I wanted to spend more than a couple of hours around them and I actively dislike babies. I do like adults and old people. I was always like this, even when I was a kid myself. And I knew all my life that I never wanted children of my own or even a husband. I did, however, want boyfriends, a house, my own money, and the opportunity to travel. I liked the idea of having a lot of variety in my life. I was able to have all these things; I was lucky. I am lucky, too, in that I have landed up with a good man and live in a kind and stable relationship. I am 57 now and I have never, ever regretted my choice not to have children.

I'm another one who never had maternal urges, at all. I truly didn't understand the allure of children or how I'd ever come around to wanting any. That was fine with me.

But when I met and married my "real" husband (after a brief, unhappy marriage in my 20s), things changed. As time went on the idea of completing our family became real to me, and it was a big surprise to find myself actively wanting to have a baby. But like Wheetsin, I'd resigned myself to the possibility that it might never happen--and I was fine with that, too. After 18 months of trying I finally got pregnant, and had my first baby at 36.

I'm still TOTALLY non-maternal. I feel like these two girls have been plopped into my life and I'm just borrowing them for a brief time. My job is to keep them safe, clothed, fed, and let them grow and explore. It's not always fun, but it's added a dimension to my life that I truly never imagined could be there.

So I'm just going to be an old biddy and tell Laurend to keep an open mind. You have a long life ahead of you and hey, you never know what might happen. :biggrin1:

If I could, I would probably get my tubes tied. Unfortunately, there aren't that many doctors out there who are willing to sterilize a young woman who hasn't had children. Seriously, sometimes I wonder what it would be like to experience pregnancy and childbirth, and then I see a colicky baby or a bratty 4 year-old and I remember why I don't want them. There aren't many situations more stressful for me than when my enire family gets together and it seems like I am surrounded by my cousin's young children. To be honest, if those situations occured more than a couple times a year, it would be enough to make me avoid my own family get-togethers.

I had my tubes tied when I was 23, and it's the best thing I ever did. I also had trouble finding a doctor. It took about 8 consultations with different doctors, but I finally found one who would do it.

I have a friend who is 44 and pregnant for the first time after years of IVF treatments and many, many thousands of dollars. The weekly report of the toll it's taking on her body is horrifying. I'm so glad I'll never experience that.

Yeah, my genes suck. I do not want to pass them on. Heck, what have they done for me except give me tendencies for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, autoimmune problems, mental problems, and PCOS, and make me really short? I'll probably wait another couple of years before I seriously start looking for a doctor that will be willing to tie my tubes, though.

I didnt have any great maternal urges either - I never wanted any kids till I was about 25. I woke up one day and BAM, it was all I could think about. I had to wait 3 years till Doug was ready, it was agony, lol. But we had Fraser and then 11 months, 1 week, 2 days, 4 hours and 3 seconds later BAM, I was ready for the second. It just suddenly took me over again. Ah, the third was an accident, lol, but we wouldnt be without her.

But in between, nada. No interest. I've never wanted to hold other people's babies, or been really gushy over kids. Yet I'm studying to be a teacher! I feel passionately about education and helping ALL children to have the best chance possible, but it comes from a social sense, not a gooey maternal one.

I think that's why people can be rude or incredulous when you say you dont want any children though, its can be such an overriding, illogical bioligical urge. At least that's how I found it.

I think my brother got the baby genes in the family. He loves kids, especially the small ones. He can't get enough of my cousins' kids. It's fine by me, because now I can let him give my parents grandkids and I can hold the babies and give them back to him.