Am I a bad Grandfather?

Today, my wife and I took our 6 year old grand-daughter Brooklyn to brunch at a Friendly's.

Brooklyn picked scrambled eggs for Breakfast. My wife Tina and I each gave her a little of our meat from our lunch platters. When she was less than halfway through, Brooklyn claimed she had a stomachache from eating the eggs. Tina said she could have her garlic bread to make an egg sandwich. Brooklyn put a small amount of egg between the two small pieces of bread and gobbled it down. She then had a stomachache again for the rest of the eggs. I told Brooklyn that she should not lie. “Do you have a stomachache or do you just not want to eat the eggs?” I asked. I told Brooklyn again that she should not lie. She admitted that had no stomachache, but just did not want anymore because she was not hungry.

Well, here is where the question comes in. Tina's meal came with a free ice cream sundae. She would normally have given it to Brooklyn, but I said not to because “If Brooklyn is too full for food, she can't be hungry for desert”. Tina did not want to eat the sundae. I had to coach her to eat it, and I explained that giving in to Brooklyn is going to be bad for her in the long run. Was I a bad grandfather to have Tina eat the sundae, with Brooklyn staring at Tina with a look of being unloved on her face?

When we babysit for Brooklyn (my wife actually babysits and I am mostly left out), they constantly have problems. My wife has to give her time-outs and yell and very rarely give her a tap on Brooklyn's bottom. When Tina was visiting her ailing mother in Brooklyn, NY a few weeks ago, I had Brooklyn for a day and a half and there were no problems, because Brooklyn know that when I say “no”, that is the final answer. I am the only one (of all her relatives including parents) that does not spoil her and she knows it, so we spent the whole time doing nice things together, rather than her testing me. I have never yelled or hit Brooklyn, but I tell her things in no uncertain terms. She knows exactly where she stands and then there is no battle of wills.

I don't think you're a bad grandfather, but you may well be remembered as the "mean" one as Brooklyn grows up.

As for the sundae, I think it was a little overboard to make someone else eat the sundae with Brooklyn watching. Not letting HER have it makes some sense, and I've done much the same thing myself (though I'm not proud of it). But making her watch someone else enjoy it seems vindictive and unnecessary.

In any event, food isn't supposed to be a power struggle or source of unpleasantness (I'm constantly told). It's extremely hard get out of the rut of dessert being always held up as a reward, but it's becoming more and more an unpopular position. I wish I knew how better to manage my kids' picky eating habits!

I understand your point, but I didn't make Tina eat the sundae, I just said that I thought that giving any to Brooklyn would be a bad idea. Some may see that as trivial, but Tina could have said, "No thanks" to the free sundae.

Brooklyn has a "sweet tooth and a half". She asks for treats all the time and even says things like, "I am not hungry for food, but I am hungry for a cookie".

I also wish I could manage our grandchildrens' picky eating habits, but my daughter-in-law is the most picky adult that I have ever met. She orders the same 2 or 3 items at every restaurant we go to and my wife cooks what my daughter-in-law will eat when we have family meals at our house (Christmas, Thanksgiving). When I try to coach one of the grandchildren to eat something new by offering them a "bite" of my food, my daughter-in-law says to leave them alone, because she grew up that way and she is fine.

Picky does not equate to being skinny, BTW.

I never liked struggling over food. I didn't feed my kids an endless chocolate buffet, of course, but also never made food a big issue. I think eating your meal before you can have dessert is a basic, sensible rule. I wouldn't have made her eat every single bite of the eggs, maybe, but neither would I have let her get by with only a bite or two.

As for eating the sundae in front of Brooklyn, what's the big deal? Brooklyn didn't eat her breakfast so someone else got to enjoy the ice cream. I had 4 kids and sometimes one or two of them didn't want to eat their dinner. If the clean plate kids had been forced to forfeit dessert because of their picky brother, they would have ganged up on him later and beat the soup out of him. That's life. Brooklyn won't learn any younger.

I would never force Brooklyn to eat more than she could eat.

When she stayed with me for the weekend while Tina was in NY, I asked her what she wanted for dinner. She said she wanted "eggs and crackers like last time". I had given her eggs and buttered Ritz crackers for breakfast a week or so ago. So I gave her a small bowl of salad first followed by about 8 crackers and two scrambles eggs. She cleaned her plate, drank a full glass of chocolate soy milk and then asked for some Cookies, which I gave her for dessert.

TOM, you'd said you had to "coach" Tina to eat the sundae and that she didn't want to eat it; it sounded as though she didn't actually want it at all and that you did it purposely to prove some sort of point. I didn't have any problem with giving it to someone else, but it sounded as though watching someone else eat it was deliberately intended to be part of the consequences of Brooklyn's not finishing her own meal. Sorry for the misapprehension.

And believe me, I know picky does not equal thin!

TOM, you'd said you had to "coach" Tina to eat the sundae and that she didn't want to eat it; it sounded as though she didn't actually want it at all and that you did it purposely to prove some sort of point. I didn't have any problem with giving it to someone else, but it sounded as though watching someone else eat it was deliberately intended to be part of the consequences of Brooklyn's not finishing her own meal. Sorry for the misapprehension.

And believe me, I know picky does not equal thin!

It was my choice of words that led to any miscommunication. Tina wanted the sundae, but didn't want Brooklyn to feel bad. It came with the meal that Tina and I shared. I obviously, didn't need it.

We had planned to buy Brooklyn a sundae to go along with Tina's sundae, but Brooklyn's use of convenient stomachaches gets to us.

I will probably be known as the mean grandma. When the kids are here we have some behavior problems but nothing like they have at the other grandparents or at home. The other grandma says they know we make them behave when they are here. We dont give in after 5 times of asking like gets done at home. But they always want to come home with us, so they must like something about staying with us. And we have one that will ask for a certain thing to eat..take one bite..then be done. That REALLY aggravates my husband.

I don't think you were/are a mean grandfather. Actually, what you are doing is right. The problem, in the long run, is the child is getting different messages from Mom, Grandma and Grandpa.

There is no good answer and that doesn't mean you shouldn't stick to your rules when it's your turn to watch the girl.

It's just that anymore in our world, food is a confusing thing.

I do, however, like your pressing her not to lie about "being full" or "having a tummy ache". It sounds to me like that tactic works for her at home.....which is a shame.

But if you laid out the rules, the expectations "if you eat your eggs then you can have dessert" and she didn't eat the eggs, then no dessert. One of the biggest lessons I think kids don't get these days is "actions have consequences" I also think many parents also don't lay out expectations. They think kids should just intuit the right answer then they get in trouble for not choosing correctly.

My best friend is really good at this. Her youngest often tries the "I'm too full" or "I have a tummy ache" and she clearly tells her. "We're going to have dessert after dinner, and if you want some, you'll need to finish ____ <fill in the blank, she negotiates a bit to find a good place>"

It works well. And if the child doesn't live up to her side of the deal, no dessert.

OK, rant coming, sorry, cant help myself.

I wouldnt call you a bad grandfather, we all try to do what's best for our kids.

But I cant at all figure out what message you think you're sending your grandaughter by not allowing her to eat the Sundae for being too full and then allowing your wife to eat it in front of her. That's like punishment for not cleaning her plate, any kid would find that confusing and yes, mean. If she gets the message that not eating all her dinner is cause for punishment then of course she's going to feign a stomachache as an excuse!

If you werent going to allow her to have the Sundae, why didnt you just send it back?.

I just think kids should be left alone to eat as much as they feel like.

And its human nature to want to make room for the Sundae but not the eggs, nothing you EVER do is going to kill that instinct in a child. And I dont think its healthy to try to - all you end up doing is making them force down a meal they dont want to get to the bit they do, ie. join the clean your plate club! I'd rather let my kids have the sundae on the odd occasion without having to shove in a meal they dont want beforehand. If its only on occasion. Saying if you eat x you can have y achieves nothing but dysfunctional eating behaviour - it may satisfy our ideas of disciplining a child but has no benefit to their eating behaviours.

At home we just plain dont have dessert, ice cream, nothing. Its not part of our daily diet so it doesnt hurt on the odd occasion that we're out. And if we're say at mum's for a family dinner where there may be dessert, its not the focus - I dont word the kids up beforehand that if they eat all their dinner they can have dessert. They eat what they want of their meal and then maybe half an hour if dessert comes out they can have some. What's the point of saying no, you didnt eat all your meat?

If you feed kids a healthy diet then they will get the idea that some foods are everyday foods and some foods are not, you dont have to force them to eat everyday foods before they eat a treat to get this message across.

And yes, children need to learn that actions have consequences but creating a battleground over the dinner table is not the place for that. Let their appetites be their guide, if you provide healthy food and not crap most of the time then that wont be a problem. If your kids cant keep out of the chips or the Cookies and then wont eat their meal, you dont bribe them with eating their meal so they can have a cookie, you dont buy the cookies in the first place. You provide fruit instead.

And lastly eating out is a treat for kids, as it is for adults. Is it really so important, on one occasion, that she doesnt eat her eggs? She's also learning that there's sometimes rules for eating out and that sometimes eating is about enjoyment and socialising, more so than nourishment. I dont see the harm in a child having fries and a sundae if its truly an occasional treat and she understand that its not behaviour that can occur every day.

In the world we live in, children are forced to learn many different sets of rules. We all did it growing up---we knew there were someplaces, whether it be Grandparents, or friends houses where we got by with more than we did at home, or visa versa. My DD had to learn an extra set--- she had to learn what was ok at Mom's house and what was ok at Dad's house. She did it. She knew she was allowed to jump on the bed there, but not at home! She also figured out pretty fast that telling me she got to do it somewhere else did not make a bit of difference. These are the rules here....learn them and live with them.

The big word with kids (IMHO)---whether it be food or jumping on the bed, is consistency. If you require them to clean a plate for dessert on Monday, have the same rule on Friday. If they have to wear a bike helmet to ride after school, make them wear it to ride with you on the weekend. If you say NO---mean it! Kids are smart---if they get you to change your mind by wheedling and begging, they will keep on doing it!!! Do you really want to listen to that all the time????

One of my major pet peeves, is for a parent to tell a child to do something, repeatedly, and be ignored, then when FINALLY after bribing and threatening, the child does it---the parent THANKS them!!! Yep they just taught that child a wonderful lesson, that we will all have to deal with!

As for your situation with your Granddaughter, I understand why you did what you did. If this is a child you have often, as it sounds like you do, I would sit her down and talk with her, now that the meal is over, and no one is sad or upset. Tell her she does not have to eat every bite to get dessert (we know that is a bad message), but let her know what kind of food off of her plate she needs to eat. My granddaughter is 2 and she knows if we go to fast food...she has to eat her chicken, she does not have to touch her fries, and she can hit the playyard. Same at Wendy's, she has to eat her burger or chicken, and she can have the Frosty---but now she would much rather have the mandarin oranges than the Frosty!!!

I would also have the "Boy who cried wolf" talk. Telling her that if she always claims a tummy ache, then someday she may really be sick, and no one would know. Grandpa lessons can be long remembered. Mine didn't let me get by with murder, but I loved them heart and soul!

I owned a day care for many years, and there are wonderful ways to teach a child good lessons with food! Maybe it will save them from the life we led!!!

Hang in there Gramps!!! This Granny is likely to bo referred to on occasion as the mean one----but I dare anyone to think they can love them any more than I do!!!

Kat

I wouldnt call you a bad grandfather, we all try to do what's best for our kids.

But I cant at all figure out what message you think you're sending your grandaughter by not allowing her to eat the Sundae for being too full and then allowing your wife to eat it in front of her. That's like punishment for not cleaning her plate, any kid would find that confusing and yes, mean.

If you werent going to allow her to have the Sundae, why didnt you just send it back?.

I just think kids should be left alone to eat as much as they feel like.

And its human nature to want to make room for the Sundae but not the eggs, nothing you EVER do is going to kill that instinct in a child. And I dont think its healthy to try to - all you end up doing is making them force down a meal they dont want to get to the bit they do, ie. join the clean your plate club! I'd rather let my kids have the sundae on the odd occasion without having to shove in a meal they dont want beforehand. If its only on occasion. Saying if you eat x you can have y achieves nothing but dysfunctional eating behaviour - it may satisfy our ideas of disciplining a child but has no benefit to their eating behaviours.

At home we just plain dont have dessert, ice cream, nothing. Its not part of our daily diet so it doesnt hurt on the odd occasion that we're out. And if we're say at mum's for a family dinner where there may be dessert, its not the focus - I dont word the kids up beforehand that if they eat all their dinner they can have dessert. They eat what they want of their meal and then maybe half an hour if dessert comes out they can have some. What's the point of saying no, you didnt eat all your meat?

If you feed kids a healthy diet then they will get the idea that some foods are everyday foods and some foods are not, you dont have to force them to eat everyday foods before they eat a treat to get this message across.

It was my choice of words that led to any miscommunication. Tina wanted the sundae, but didn't want Brooklyn to feel bad. It came with the meal that Tina and I shared. I obviously, didn't need it.

We had planned to buy Brooklyn a sundae to go along with Tina's sundae, but Brooklyn's use of convenient stomachaches gets to us.

Brooklyn often claims that she is full halfway through her meal and then 5 minutes after the table is cleared, she asked for a "treat" (candy, Cookies, donut, etc.) A problem that I may not have addressed in this thread is that Brooklyn's mother has the smallest food variety of any adult I have ever met and when I serve one of her children something they have not eaten, I get "But I don't like that".

"Have you ever eaten it?"

"No, but I know that I don't like it."

And then the mother (if she is around) chimes in with, “They don't have to eat what they don't like. I never did and I turned out OK.”

Brooklyn is our only grandchild by blood. Her mother has 3 children by a previous marriage. The others are 21, 19 and 14 respectively. We have known the 14 year old since he was 7. Whenever he stayed with us because his mother and my son asked us to babysit, we got the same answers as Brooklyn gives us now. They do not eat a healthy balanced diet, so we give them balanced meals when we take care of them. We have babysat the 14 year old for over a year, but when we have family dinners (Christmas, Thanksgiving, ect.) we serve balanced meals. When we eat at their home, it is the same few foods every time.

We do not believe in cleaning the plate, but we do know how much Brooklyn eats. I always give her less than she can eat and tell her that she can ask for more when she finishes. If she knows there is no special desert coming, she cleans her plate on her own. I would never help a child defeat her “feel full” mechanism. I hope I do not sound defensive, but those are the facts.

I am not a grandparent but a I am a step-mom and I can tell you that imo it is not our job to be their friend first but to be their parental figure first after that then friend. My kids sometimes hate me because I make them pick up after themselves (oh my) and go to bed at bedtime. But they also know that I love them and that I do these things for their own good. I can tell you that dessert in our house is rare to start with, and their meal needs to be finished to a reasonable degree. Meaning they have to have eaten app. 2oz of protien and at least 4 bites of veggies. I don't want them to learn to overeat but I don't want them to learn to replace food with junk either. I try to find a balance and for each child it might be a little varied depending on what they are being picky about. One thing is for sure they know that dessert is never a guarantee. Kids often think of us grown ups as mean, but one day they will know that we taught them these hard lessons out of love. And no you are not a bad grandfather These things are difficult at best but what you did you did out of love for her and hope for how she might grow up to be and that is a good thing.

Kids, if left up to their own devices, will try all the tricks in their little bags to see who will cave and who won't. But, they also don't realize that we were also kids once!! You are not a mean grand-dad. But you are the one who will be the one is not a push-over. My dad set very specific rules for my son when he was there. No going into the fridge without asking permission, no playing with tools in the toolshed, no dessert or treat until he at least tasted unfamiliar foods on his dinner plate. I do not mind that my son does not like this or that (not that he is a picky eater), but he was asked to take only a single bite, then he could decide if he liked it or not. He is not expected to clean his plate if he does not want to - but we did not substitute dessert for his dinner. Kids figure out pretty early on, what they can and can't do. They are resilient - and conniving at times.

Keep up the good work, grandpa!

Rachel

Ah, OK, that sheds a different light on it, perhaps its the way you framed it at first. If its a continual behaviour, its not acceptable really because she wont be getting what she needs.

But you're her grandfather. If this problem isnt tackled in her home, there's not a lot you can do about it. You can try to do the right thing, but its really her parents that need to be doing it because you arent going to have enough influence to help her form habits. She's just going to think that those are "your" rules if its not reinforced at home.

I have a similar problem with my middle son. He's gone to school on half a bowl of Rice bubbles and taken a ham sandwich. That's it. Two bits of multigrain bread with a bit of ham slapped in the middle. Of course I made his lunch and put in fruit and a muesli bar as it will be 1.30 pm before they have lunch. He refused to take it. He wont eat the sandwich either because he hates sandwiches but he wont eat anything that requires any effort - I cant pack him chicken and a salad, and yogurt because all those things take time to eat and take time away from the playground. He's driving me insane becuase he will come home starving and then even if I start dinner the minute they're home at 3.30, he just eats and eats and eats till he gets dinner because he's literally starving.

I'm going in today to have a chat with his teacher. I've had enough, I cant get through to him! Every other child has a lunchbox full of utter crap - chips, chocolate, those bloody Krispy Kreme things that have invaded Australia like some sort of disease lately. He'd eat that! But I wont provide it.

So yeah, I do understand getting tough. If its a manipulative/behavioural type of thing - not if she's genuinely full and then half an hour later has room for the sundae when its a treat as a meal out.

Its just that the clean your plate and you can have dessert thing gets up my nose - I see so many people cluck at me because we may take the kids to McDonalds for a treat and when they run off and dont eat all of their meal becuase they want the playground, so what, I just chuck it out. But everyone else seems to bolt their kids to a chair and FORCE them to eat before they're allowed to do anything - usually by saying eat it all up and you can have an ice cream. I really dont agree with that. I think if they'd rather do something else than eat McDonalds, then let them!

He wont eat the sandwich either because he hates sandwiches but he wont eat anything that requires any effort - I cant pack him chicken and a salad, and yogurt because all those things take time to eat and take time away from the playground.

A notice just came home from my son's school that they were going to have their playtime before their morning recess snack and lunch. This is for the reason that you mentioned, kids weren't eating because they were in a hurry to get outside. So now they will go outside first and be called in early with plenty of time to eat before their class starts. They did suggest a hearty Breakfast because it would be an extra half hour before their morning recess snack.