I just read this article on the "Quiverfull" movement where the idea is to have as many kids as possible and that "God is the only one who can open or close the womb". Some of these idiots have 12, 18 and 20 kids.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'll just assume that everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to know the reasons why this is a really bad idea, such as our severely dwindling environmental resources, for one.

On a more mundane level, every time someone complains about a new development going up behind their house, or long lines at the supermarket, or horrible traffic, I feel like screaming "that's because people are having too many *bleeping* kids!

It makes me so mad that people are so dumb.

I prefer to donate to charity personally, rather than being forced by the government to do so. In fact, I don't call welfare programs welfare. I call them "forced charity".

You can call it what you want it doesn't matter. If enough people we kind enough to help out w/the less fortunate I guess we wouldn't need welfare. Too many people in the country are too selfish for that!!!

Plus, you never know what could happen tomorrow.

You are so right about that. I had a client whose ex was a professional baseball player. His career ended with an injury, so he invested ALL their savings in the oil business - in the early 80's. After the divorce (and the bankruptcy), she remarried. Husband number two went to prison for 20 years (some kind of white collar crime). This woman had 5 kids and a house full of gorgeous antique furniture, which she ended up selling a lot of. She had designer clothes. You would have looked at her and wondered what the hell she was doing in the welfare line.

My oldest son and his wife had a child born with a serious GI deformity (Hirschsprung's Disease). Tommy's group policy did not pick up newborns until day 11, and would not cover birth defects for 18 months. Nick spent 30 days in NICU. Then he had to have expensive ostomy supplies, special formula ($20.00 a can) and several surgeries. Medicaid paid out over $200,000 for his care. My DIL's Republican parents no longer bad-mouth the welfare system. They are still Republicans, but they don't dare talk about "those lazy bums" on Medicaid or WIC. They have now seen the story from the other side, and that makes all the difference in the world.

You can call it what you want it doesn't matter. If enough people we kind enough to help out w/the less fortunate I guess we wouldn't need welfare. Too many people in the country are too selfish for that!!!

Actually, I think it's just the opposite. I think people are LESS inclined to help out because they figure the government will take care of them (and/or because they're being sucked dry by taxes and have nothing left). I saw the statistics many years ago and could probably find them again if I needed to, but as the government programs increase, charitable donations everywhere decrease.

Really, when you think about it, if the government reduced my taxes by $10,000 and I instead gave that $10,000 directly to the charity instead of having it go through the wind-tunnel that is a government bureaucracy, the charity would see a heck of a lot more of that $10,000 than they do now.

Actually, I think it's just the opposite. I think people are LESS inclined to help out because they figure the government will take care of them (and/or because they're being sucked dry by taxes and have nothing left). I saw the statistics many years ago and could probably find them again if I needed to, but as the government programs increase, charitable donations everywhere decrease.

Really, when you think about it, if the government reduced my taxes by $10,000 and I instead gave that $10,000 directly to the charity instead of having it go through the wind-tunnel that is a government bureaucracy, the charity would see a heck of a lot more of that $10,000 than they do now.

Wow, you have $10,000 to donate to charity a year..Lucky you!!! What the heck are you complaining about? May I ask, what charity you donate too?

And what would you tell a hungry child? You aren't my problem? I don't care if you live or die?

What do you teach your own children about charity? That it's better to give than to receive, or it's every man for himself and if a five year-old doesn't have dinner, who cares? And what of the elderly? Should we kick them off the welfare rolls, too?

I am glad to pay the taxes if it helps me sleep better at night.

quote]

The first thing I AM presently teaching my toddler is that you get a good education so you can get a good job, take care of yourself, be responsible for your own actions, and that ALL actions have consequences! I think that's a good foundation and if others did the same, maybe we wouldn't have half the social problems we DO have, ie unwanted pregnancies. If you are able bodied and are on welfare for 3 years and can't get it together, you deserve to be kicked off. I'm confused Carlene, for a conservative, you're quite liberal. It's like, oh let all the unwanted babies be born and let the gov't take care of them! Don't you see alot of these folks breed so they can get more $ and yes it does give the ones that really need it a bad name. I guess it really pisses me off that when my sister finally threw out her mentally, physically, and sexually abusive husband she applied for welfare/food stamps, but didn't get anything because they counted the support that the ex (aka sperm donor) was "supposed to be paying." That was pre-support enforcement, but she was VERY lucky that my parents stepped in and helped her.

The worst part of it is that there ARE many children out there for whom those stamps are meant for, who do go hungry because the stamps have become a way for people to barter with others, such as drug dealers. If I had $615 a month in which to feed my kids, I could have afforded a Cadillac and luxurious purses as well. Instead, we bought hamburger meat, instead of steak and we worked. Our money went out for utilities, food for our kids, housing etc - so we were broke. The people being discussed here pay a nominal fee for subsidized housing, don't have to pay for their food and usually even get a check according to how many kids they have. There is really no incentive to work when you can do better without it. If the system went back to handing out tangible commodities, there wouldn't be so much abuse and the kids would actually be getting the food they're meant to be getting.

Thank you!:clap2:

The worst part of it is that there ARE many children out there for whom those stamps are meant for, who do go hungry because the stamps have become a way for people to barter with others, such as drug dealers. If I had $615 a month in which to feed my kids, I could have afforded a Cadillac and luxurious purses as well. Instead, we bought hamburger meat, instead of steak and we worked. Our money went out for utilities, food for our kids, housing etc - so we were broke. The people being discussed here pay a nominal fee for subsidized housing, don't have to pay for their food and usually even get a check according to how many kids they have. There is really no incentive to work when you can do better without it. If the system went back to handing out tangible commodities, there wouldn't be so much abuse and the kids would actually be getting the food they're meant to be getting.

I don't have kids, but $150 a week doesn't sound like a lot for groceries when you have 5 people. I could be off base, but I know how much food costs. That's like $30 a piece a wk.

How much do people typically get for a welfare check? I know a couple of people that get assistance of some type (childcare, housing). I guess everyone doesn't get an actual check asside from child support which is for the kid, but of course typically doesn't cover everything even for the child.

Ask some people why they work and don't chose to stay home and get welfare. I'm sure they can tell you some incentives.

You are so right about that. I had a client whose ex was a professional baseball player. His career ended with an injury, so he invested ALL their savings in the oil business - in the early 80's. After the divorce (and the bankruptcy), she remarried. Husband number two went to prison for 20 years (some kind of white collar crime). This woman had 5 kids and a house full of gorgeous antique furniture, which she ended up selling a lot of. She had designer clothes. You would have looked at her and wondered what the hell she was doing in the welfare line.

Gee, you seem to have a comeback for everything!:blah:

And what would you tell a hungry child? You aren't my problem? I don't care if you live or die?

What do you teach your own children about charity? That it's better to give than to receive, or it's every man for himself and if a five year-old doesn't have dinner, who cares? And what of the elderly? Should we kick them off the welfare rolls, too?

I am glad to pay the taxes if it helps me sleep better at night.

quote]

The first thing I AM presently teaching my toddler is that you get a good education so you can get a good job, take care of yourself, be responsible for your own actions, and that ALL actions have consequences! I think that's a good foundation and if others did the same, maybe we wouldn't have half the social problems we DO have, ie unwanted pregnancies. If you are able bodied and are on welfare for 3 years and can't get it together, you deserve to be kicked off. I'm confused Carlene, for a conservative, you're quite liberal. It's like, oh let all the unwanted babies be born and let the gov't take care of them! Don't you see alot of these folks breed so they can get more $ and yes it does give the ones that really need it a bad name. I guess it really pisses me off that when my sister finally threw out her mentally, physically, and sexually abusive husband she applied for welfare/food stamps, but didn't get anything because they counted the support that the ex (aka sperm donor) was "supposed to be paying." That was pre-support enforcement, but she was VERY lucky that my parents stepped in and helped her.

I thought Carlene was a liberal:phanvan I don't see why it has to be a liberal/conservative thing. I guess I just have compassion for other people.

Everyone doesn't have parents to step in and help them. I bet you would think differently if your sister didn't have them to step in.

I'm confused Carlene, for a conservative, you're quite liberal.

Oh, my God, Dotofoz......ME, a conservative? Bite your tongue. I'm a bleeding heart Liberal.

Gee, you seem to have a comeback for everything!:blah:

Don't nominate yourself for comeback queen. That had all the effect of, "Yeah well, your mom's FAT!" *snort*

Gee, you seem to have a comeback for everything!

No, just the things that are near and dear to my heart. But please feel free to put me on "ignore" if my posts offend you.

I thought Carlene was a liberal:phanvan I don't see why it has to be a liberal/conservative thing. I guess I just have compassion for other people.

Everyone doesn't have parents to step in and help them. I bet you would think differently if your sister didn't have them to step in.

What can I say is that my father was a kid in the depression and he and my mom saved and saved, and he worked 3 jobs at one point. That's why they were able to help. W-O-R-K ethics and saving. Also, in our family, the kids come first. Goofy concept, I know. I really don't think I'd think differently because she still wouldn't have anything from the gov't.

No, just the things that are near and dear to my heart. But please feel free to put me on "ignore" if my posts offend you.

No, because it can be humerous sometimes.

Oh, my God, Dotofoz......ME, a conservative? Bite your tongue. I'm a bleeding heart Liberal.

then why are you so anti choice?