I just read this article on the "Quiverfull" movement where the idea is to have as many kids as possible and that "God is the only one who can open or close the womb". Some of these idiots have 12, 18 and 20 kids.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'll just assume that everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to know the reasons why this is a really bad idea, such as our severely dwindling environmental resources, for one.

On a more mundane level, every time someone complains about a new development going up behind their house, or long lines at the supermarket, or horrible traffic, I feel like screaming "that's because people are having too many *bleeping* kids!

It makes me so mad that people are so dumb.

Quote by Sunta:

"I still think people that have extreme amounts of children are idiots, and that they are uneducated regarding the environment."

Sunta, I am not going to judge you, but I do want you to understand that what you're saying is extremely hurtful.

I think it is wise to get to know a person before you make blanket statements about them. It sounds as if you may know a few people who actually have several children & didn't seem to like the choices they have made. You are therefore judging all people who have lots of children because of the handful you know.

PLEASE, PLEASE think before you say things. I try to think postively about others & since I don't know you, I am just going to assume that your statements were made without intentions to be hurtful.

This post is simply to let you know that you indeed are hurting others. If hurting others truly is your intent, then I feel very sorry for you. :phanvan

Gee, I dont know how anyone could expect that this post wouldnt turn out hurtful and angry.

There's so many things we can do to reduce our environmental impact besides stopping having children. Economically we need more children.

Hey, howsabout we refuse to medicate anyone over 60 so they drop dead of natural causes? That way we dont have to support all the old geezers sucking us taxpayers dry! I mean, what use are old people? They dont give to the economy. They just take. And they're using up precious oxygen.

Oh? That's hurtful and rude and completely wrong? Well, that's how ridiculous your argument is Sunta.

Come to think of it what use are say, dogs? They dont add anything to the ecosystem do they? They're useless too - the just add love and warmth to the family home. Cut em loose! Cats too, in fact ALL pets.

Hmmm, do you think if I got rid of my kids I could drive around in an ENORMOUS four wheel drive that I dont need in the city? Perhaps I cold pull my finger out and actually wash a few cloth diapers? Maybe I could decide not to subsist on a diet of entirely packaged processed foods? Nup, that would require a bit of effort to actually cook and prepare.

Oh, no there's nothing I could do so I think I'll just sit right back and point the finger at everyone else.

. He does not stand alone; as I said, I have NEVER met a consistent liberal.

Interesting. I've met both consisent and inconsistent liberals, conservatives, Christians, Muslims, athiest. IOW, people.

I think one of the problems on this thread is overgeneralizations. You've posted about liberals, things that don't apply to me as a liberal nor most I know. Other people have posted comments about Christians as a group that don't apply to many of us, you probably included. Then there are all kinds of assumptions about big or small families flying around.

I have NEVER met a consistent liberal.

I can say the same about conservatives. You know, the people who are anti-abortion and pro-death penalty or pro-bombing. Or the ones who say that prayer should be taught in school, but get all up in arms if someone says, "Yeah, let's teach the Qu'ran." Or the ones that are all, "It's outrageous how much meds cost these days. Think of the old people!" And then they go nuts if someone suggests nationalizing health care because it's "socialism:eek:".

No one is 100% consistant 100% of the time. It's part of being human.

The person who started the thread and chose its content, Sunta, has insulted and offended real people. There is no guarantee not to be offended, and Sunta may certainly insult anyone she wants. Civil discourse would demand that after expressing an opinion such as hers, and after finding that it hurt some worthy opponents and friendly cohorts, she might apologize, or rethink the position...reframe or refine the position so that she retains her stalwart defense of the environment, but includes some respect for those who choose to have more than 1 or 2 children. Several posters, including myself, presented some satirical solutions to the environmental concerns, such as stopping the research on curing diseases, using horses and buggies, or disposing of pets....and since these went unanswered, and the focus remained on the number of children, and words "dumb" and "idiotic" were used repeatedly, one can only assume that Sunta is not of the mind to care one bit about other's feelings, and furthermore has a suspiciously strong dislike for large families, probably for reasons other than the environment.

I say let's give it a rest, and let Sunta have her strong feelings of dislike for everyone who is not like she thinks they ought to be. There seems to be no possibility of reason here.

You can hurt people's feelings and disrespect them, but they do have the right to tell you that you did. You don't get to play the victim then, and say "You called me names." That's not right because you started the thread. You are ineligible for victim status.

Oh, being a Christian does not in anyway mean I am just like Christ...it means I have been saved by Christ. We are not perfect; we are sinners. That might be the most difficult acknowledgement of all.

I basically reiterate what I said in a different thread:

There always have to be two people in every fight. It wouldn't be a fight otherwise. To me, a lot of this is like a 5 year-old saying, "She started it!" We don't like little kids doing it, so why do we? One person's bad behavior or badly expressed thoughts does not excuse another's. So yes, Sunta probably could have stated her thoughts in a more polite manner, but so could several people.

It's strange to criticize other people's words when you (generic you, no one in particular) haven't exactly taken the higher road. And yes, that can obviously mean several people in this discussion.

You can hurt people's feelings and disrespect them, but they do have the right to tell you that you did. You don't get to play the victim then, and say "You called me names." That's not right because you started the thread. You are ineligible for victim status.

Oh, being a Christian does not in anyway mean I am just like Christ...it means I have been saved by Christ. We are not perfect; we are sinners. That might be the most difficult acknowledgement of all.

Ohhh... I understand now! You don't have to act like Christ, and can name-call and be nasty, and it's fine. But because you're "saved", and forgiven at the end of the day, you're absolved of all of your guilt for your behavior. Thank you for enlightening me. So THAT's why none of the so-called "Christians" here are nice. By the way, thanks for the laugh.

For the record, everyone has the "right" to say whatever they want, and I never stated otherwise.

I think it's funny though when people who claim to be Christian act with such vehement disdain for others. Even funnier when they turn around and say being a Christian in no way means they are like Christ.

All I did was state an opinion about people who have huge amounts of children and say it was bad for the environment.

Again, why don't you "Christians" who are arguing against me take a bit of time to actually learn something instead of spending energy arguing with me?

If it because then you might come to realize that indeed each child DOES place a huge, huge burden on our natural resources?

If you all want to bury your head in the sand when it comes to the environment, that's on you, but don't cry and complain when we run out of Water and oil, or when the ozone layer disappears completely.

I am not afraid of fundamentalists, even though you're scary.

So THAT's why none of the so-called "Christians" here are nice. By the way, thanks for the laugh.

None of us Christians here are nice? None?

None of us Christians here are nice? None?

Actually I will retract that. Actually I think that many people's posts here have been very polite and well-stated, like Dianechef's for example. However, I don't know the religious affliation of every single person here, and was referring to those that identified themselves as "fundamentalists", because they are the ones who have been the most nasty and hateful. But that's how it always is; Fred Phelps demonstrating at AIDS victim's funerals, "Christians" bombing abortion clinics and murdering abortion doctors, fundamentalists on this thread acting far more obnoxious than me by attacking me personally, my motives, my relationship with my husband, my intellect.

I did not personally target or attack one person here. If there is someone here who actually has more than 15 children, please identify yourself and I will be happy to apologize to you and re-state my opinion in a more polite way to you, specifically. Otherwise the rest of you can forget any apology since it's not you I'm speaking about.

I think one poster said it best, that just because someone is a Christian it does not mean they are like Christ.

Hold on... wiping tears from my eyes from laughing...

Ok, so anyway, the fundamentalists can try to intimidate me all they want, just like they try to intimidate politically by taking Gay people's and women's rights away, but I am not afraid.

I think most fundamentalists are the meanest, nastiest, most hateful people on earth, and this thread has done nothing but reinforce my opinion.

Actually I will retract that. Actually I think that many people's posts here have been very polite and well-stated, like Dianechef's for example.

Cool. I had just posted that one thing I think has made this discussion what it is is too much overgeneralzation.

And now if you will all kindly excuse me for the evening, for I am in Memphis, and am going to church to hear some gospel music, with people who actually care about their communities, helping others, and being Christ-like.

Following up to Sunday morning's church service where I was warmly greeted by folks who don't focus on having a zillion children, stripping Gays of their civil rights, or bombing abortion clinics, but instead want to get their neighbors off drugs, help victims of domestic abuse, and form alliances with people of other religions.

I don't think that Sunta has been as rude or as abrasive as Bill O'Reilly or that pill poppin' guy - I forget his name - who made such fun of Michael J. Fox recently. Some of you like to listen to these clowns because you are on the same political page whereas you are not on the same page as Sunta. This will inevitably colour your responses to her posts.

It is certain that she chose to introduce a controversial and challenging topic on this thread. I believe that there is much to be gained by debates such as this one. This is where we are forced to scrutinize our own beliefs and put them in good order before putting them out there for everyone, including the opposition, to examine. By doing this we learn more about ourselves and our beliefs. And by examining the opposition's arguments we also learn more than we would be by choosing to remain unchallenged and safely embedded in our same old ruts.

In my opinion Rants and Raves is the most intellectually challenging neighbourhood on the site. Now, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of blood letting from time to time, is there?

As for being Christ-like. It's a journey, we all fall short and always will. Although we are believers, we are still human. We still have free will. The difference is, we've asked to be forgiven through our faith and we've been promised that by accepting that Jesus Christ was the son of God and sent to pay the sin debt of man, we are therefore forgiven and 'saved' by the blood he shed on the cross. Amazing, unimaginable, perhaps.. but that's why He is called God. I am grateful, but I shall never be even close to his perfection. Thankfully, he loves me, warts and all.

I agree totally. And I don't use that as an excuse to do whatever I want. I want to be more like Him, I want to follow His example as closely as I can. Even though I know I will mess up sometimes.

And I know I'm not the only one out there

As for being Christ-like. It's a journey, we all fall short and always will. Although we are believers, we are still human. We still have free will. The difference is, we've asked to be forgiven through our faith and we've been promised that by accepting that Jesus Christ was the son of God and sent to pay the sin debt of man, we are therefore forgiven and 'saved' by the blood he shed on the cross. Amazing, unimaginable, perhaps.. but that's why He is called God. I am grateful, but I shall never be even close to his perfection. Thankfully, he loves me, warts and all.

What a great way to describe us Christians. We're not perfect...just forgiven! :amen:

But as lisah25 mentioned, we do have to try to follow Christ's teachings. But it can be tough at times since we aren't perfect. But we have to genuinely keep trying. It's a journey for sure. Fortunately, to be saved we don't have to be perfect! *whew*

As for the original topic, although I personally have chosen to have a small family, I have no problem at all with very large families, as long as the parents can financially and emotionally support such a large family. :biggrin1:

What a great way to describe us Christians. We're not perfect...just forgiven! :amen:

But as lisah25 mentioned, we do have to try to follow Christ's teachings. But it can be tough at times since we aren't perfect. But we have to genuinely keep trying. It's a journey for sure. Fortunately, to be saved we don't have to be perfect! *whew*

Well said, everyone. I have a question for the Christians on the board who have read this thread. Have I been out of line? I've asked my husband, who is very honest with me and lets me know when I'm stepping over the line, and he said no. But I'd like the opinion of others here. If an apology is owed, I'm certainly not above proffering one.