I just read this article on the "Quiverfull" movement where the idea is to have as many kids as possible and that "God is the only one who can open or close the womb". Some of these idiots have 12, 18 and 20 kids.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'll just assume that everyone on this forum is intelligent enough to know the reasons why this is a really bad idea, such as our severely dwindling environmental resources, for one.

On a more mundane level, every time someone complains about a new development going up behind their house, or long lines at the supermarket, or horrible traffic, I feel like screaming "that's because people are having too many *bleeping* kids!

It makes me so mad that people are so dumb.

Listen Sunta, I never made a comment about the statue.

My "beef" from the get-go has been your first and second posts about how "idiotic" and "dumb" the "Quiverfull movement" (which is decidedly fundamentalist Christian) is and the tone with which you have presented your, otherwise, very valid opinion. I found it to be condescending, patronizing (good word, doesn't feel good to be patronized, does it?), and full of ridicule and scorn.

I said so. I'm not sure why you think I should lay down and take it because I'm a follower of Christ? I will speak up. What you posted was not okay. I'm not trying to make you a Christian...I'm not trying to make you have 18 children..I'm not trying to make you waste your resources... I don't even care what you disagree with me about. It's okay for us to be different. What is NOT okay is to publicly speak with such disdain about the personal religious beliefs of others.

And this "name-calling" business is because I said you were judgmentally hypocritical, because you feel so compelled to comment in such an ugly way on another person's beliefs under the guise that YOU are educated and socially conscientious, and so others must not be because they disagree. ??? Makes no sense, I said so.

Again, I have made no comment about the statue. My comments have been in regard to your posts #1 (the thread-starter) and #51, to be specific. Words like that are not okay.

What is NOT okay is to publicly speak with such disdain about the personal religious beliefs of others.

Oh really? NOT ok???

I'm so sorry... I thought I lived in the United States and had freedom of speech. Am I mistaken?

Could you kindly make a list of things that are "ok" and "not ok" to speak "publicly"?

Perhaps you would feel more comfortable moving to North Korea. There, they are not allowed to speak in public about lots of things. You'd fit in well.

I'll speak about what I want, how I want, and no religious person is going to stop me. That's the exact reason our forefathers came to this country to begin with. They were not allowed to say anything against the religion of the time. Did you know that?

You're not going to silence me, even though you'd like to.

Seems you don't value freedoms citizens of the US hold most dear.

And PS:

It's still Idiotic To Have 20 Children.

And no, I don't think those people are educated about the ENVIRONMENT.

Not because they disagree with me, because having that many children is a DUMB idea for OUR RESOURCES.

It's just like what some Christians do with the bible: take words OUT OF CONTEXT and then TWIST them for their own purposes.

What is NOT okay is to publicly speak with such disdain about the personal religious beliefs of others.

Kathy...

As a Christian, I understand your righteous indignation. I left another thread awhile back because someone made derogatory comments about my church - the Catholic church. I left the thread, and you KNOW that's not my usual style, because in an open forum, it IS okay to disdain the religious beliefs of others. Maybe it isn't tasteful, or politically correct, but it's within the rules, nevertheless. It's not "personal". I know you TOOK it personally (so did I, when my beliefs were ridiculed), but it's still an argument - an opinion - and not a personal attack on you, as an individual.

I get a lot of posts addressed to me, because I post a lot myself. (What can I say....I think everyone is entitled to my opinion.) And I get quite a few PMs, too. Not all of them are flattering, as you may have noticed. Bottom line...if you want to scrap it out online, that's fine. It's a lot of fun for someone like me, who likes to argue. But if you are going to wade into the fray, you have to be prepared to get bloodied once in a while.

Sunta is not a believer, so of course she is going to scoff and poke fun at what she considers "religious nuts". Atheists hate nothing worse than having Christianity shoved down their throats, hence the remarks about the statue (and her signature line). As for the quiverfull movement, Sunta thinks it's socially irresponsible to bring 18 or 20 children per couple into the world. I think she should have said she feels that way regardless of whether it's out of religious conviction or just some ego-gone-wild thing, but she didn't. Maybe she was baiting you; maybe she wasn't. But she didn't cross the line, as far as what's okay to post and what's not.

PS....I took the trouble to write this not because I want to take sides, but because I am a passionate defender of free speech. I never, ever want censorship to rear its ugly head, in this or any other open forum.

Perhaps you would feel more comfortable moving to North Korea. There, they are not allowed to speak in public about lots of things.

Speaking of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (or North Korea as it's known to all us ugly Americans), I'm planning a trip there in August! According to my Lonely Planet, if I manage to make it, I will then be the most interesting person I know. :eek:

For anyone who is interested in the DPRK, there is a beautiful movie called A State of Mind. It's about the Arirang Mass Games, a national celebration that occurs on holidays, sometimes several times a year. It's am amazing gymnastics spectucular with about 100,000 gymnasts and tens of thousands of school children performing. The gymnasts work together in a mass synchronized routine (a physical representation of socialism) and know that if any one of them messes up, the entire performance is ruined. Behind the stadium floor where the gymnasts perform, thousands of school children flip colored cards in synchronicity to create a giant mosiac picture.

Americans are only granted visas during the Mass Games, and there are some performances in August and September. I am currently dealing with a Korean travel agency to schedule a trip. The trip is completely chaperoned by two guides at all times, and everything you get to see is highly regulated by the government (hence, no poverty, starvation, etc. are shown).

I don't mean to hijack, Sunta! (I agree with everything you've said and more . ) I just take any opportunity I can to talk about my favorite "axis of evil."

im happily married have four gorgeous sons provide very well for them and am paying for my own surgery,and i agree totally that having numerous pregnancys without care for how you will be able to manage them financially and emotionally til adulthood is madness but i think family size is personal choice and of course if there were no more children the world ends !!!!so no need to worry about the queues.

What's sad is that being fat stinks, losing weight is hard, and banded life is sometimes difficult, and Sunta and I (at the very least) have isolated ourselves from one another over a poorly-stated opinion. She can say it, I can disagree, we can go round and round about it. At the end of the day, we each have one less person to lift us up when we need it. Thankfully, LBT is a large community, and there's plenty of air to breathe for all of us and more. I still find it regrettable. :eek:

There is no need to isolate yourselves over an opinion. It would be really tiring to only be friends with people who totally agree with you, wouldn't it? Differing opinions is what makes the world go 'round.

Speaking of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (or North Korea as it's known to all us ugly Americans), I'm planning a trip there in August! According to my Lonely Planet, if I manage to make it, I will then be the most interesting person I know. :eek:

Why am I not surprised to hear that you are planning a trip to North Korea? I'm so jealous. My DH is retired from AA. We can fly anywhere in the world for free, or nearly so. But DH is certain that he will die if he crosses the USA border, except for Canada, and direct to/from flights to all-inclusive resorts in Mexico (although it took a lot of persuasion to even get that small concession). I want to see Russia. He offered to take me to the airport.

Not that Kathy needs assistance, yet I share her feeling thst Sunta seems to be somewhat in denial about her tone. Sure, we all agree that she may post just about whatever she wants, and may have whatever opinion her heart desires. I'm sure Kathy is not worried about a bloodied opinion or post, nor am I. The point is this: that it appears that Sunta does not recognize that her choice of language reflects an attitude of disdain, rather than a position of disagreement. Can anyone see the distinction here? I believe there is a definite and important difference. It is different to say, "I believe it is socially irresponsible to have 18 children" and explain the reasons, than to say, "It is idiotic and dumb to have so many damn children," slamming Christians along the way. First of all, if your goal is to communicate with people, and perhaps even persuade them, you will not have them listening past your insult (perceived or real). Secondly, when called out on the disrespectful part, it would be preferable to acknowledge that you do not respect Christians, rather than become defensive. It would be easier to accept.

No one's calling for censorship, unless good manners and basic courtesy are now being considered censorship.

...her choice of language reflects an attitude of disdain, rather than a position of disagreement. Can anyone see the distinction here?

I can. Quite clearly.

The point is this: that it appears that Sunta does not recognize that her choice of language reflects an attitude of disdain, rather than a position of disagreement.

Oh, I think she fully recognizes that her posts reflect disdain for Christian beliefs. She isn't stupid, and I doubt that she would be very open to etiquette lessons, considering the fact that Sunta has received pretty much as good as she's given.

In case no one has noticed, the Atheists who post here are a very bright bunch. Personally, I like just about all of them. I don't necessarily agree with everything they post, but I have never agreed 100% with anyone, so what's the difference? The difference is that I don't feel like I have to defend the Christian mindset at every opportunity. I believe - they don't. In the end, if I'm right, I get to say, "I told you so" and they get to ask for ice Water. If I'm wrong, nothing happens. Sounds like a safe bet to me.

I think the point is that Sunta claims to be "open-minded and tolerant" when she clearly is not. No one is denying her right to free speech. But for her to attempt to mask her judgmental, intolerant, disdainful, hateful statements with the claim that she is open-minded and tolerant is just plain disingenuous.And no, Sunta, I'm not referring to your position on that ridiculous statue. And I don't care that your husband is Jewish, as you've been drilling in many of your posts (making me wonder if YOU care that he's Jewish????). I'm referring to the very first post (and the ones that followed) that started this thread. If you truly believe you are open-minded and tolerant, as you have stated many times, you need to have your head examined. You are neither. Declaring a group of people to be idiotic and dumb is judgmental, closed-minded, and intolerant. No two ways about it. You don't save face by claiming you don't want to regulate them.

By the way, Wheetsin, I've been meaning to tell you your story about the gingerbread men is priceless. What your "neighbors" did to you was out of line, and what you did back was just hilarious.

Good heavens you childess heathens.

I feel like I must confess. My husband and I were married six years, finishing college, and buying a house...while unbeknownst to us, the "baby making gene" was slowly growing in the back of our brains.

Alas, it reared it's ugle head...

My husband talking me into getting off the pill....

And you know.....actually trying.....

And boy did we learn a lesson.

We had twins.

I apologize to each and every one of you on this thread, and to prove the sincerity of my remorse, I will send them back immedately. We've been feeding and watering them for eleven years, but ya'll are right, we shouldn't have. We're so sorry.

Do we return them to the hospital, or to the obstitrician? We are afraid if we drop them off at a local childrens home they may find their way back to us. Please help.

:eek:

By the way, KY Gal, I loved your post. I think its humorous appeal must have gotten squashed by the giant, smiting hand of the Christians, or maybe no one saw it because Sunta's Pasta diety flew over and pooped on it. In any case, I thought it was very funny!