Me Thinks The World Just became a little safer

gailannr · November 18, 2006

Hi Carlene, OK then, I can except the fact OBL is not in Iraq (but then who knows), I never said he was and I don't base my feelings about the War on Terror on Osama. Do you think there is any possibility he could be funding the Jihadists there? If so, then what would be the difference? If he starts or is already funding the Jihadists right here in out little wonderland the USA would it be alright if we fought them back? Or would the fact that 100-31= 69 percent of the people (if you believe the polls) don't think we have the right to live and/or fight them anywhere? So they can come here but we can't go there. I have a right to have a say in what I fear could be the future of my children and grandchildren and I would want them to know I tried in some small way to be a voice for them.

Your quoted quote:

"The war with Israel does not depend on ceasefires ... . It is a Jihad for the sake of God and will last until (our) religion prevails ... from Spain to Iraq," al-Zawahri said. "We will attack everywhere."

BJean · November 18, 2006

You didn't address me, Gail, but I thought I'd ask the obvious question: What in the world makes you think that the 69% of Americans who are opposed to the war in Iraq are against us fighting them anywhere? We can go "there" just so long as we know that they're there, and that "they" are the Jihadists, who are out to get us.

If I may be so bold, what gave us the right to put innocent men, women and children in harm's way just because we thought there was a chance that there was a connection to Osama? Isn't it prudent (as W.'s Dad used to say) to get the intelligence prior to declaring war? Or do you think, like George W. Bush thinks, that he and the Republicans have divine guidance, and the rest of us be damned.

BJean · November 18, 2006

P.S. BTW, if the attackers have declared that they will "attack everywhere", how are we supposed to get the job done if we're busy butting heads and chasing our tails in Iraq? Doesn't that just deplete our forces and make us weaker - which would certainly make us more vulnerable if we need to be somewhere else? I say kick the bastards, do what it takes to put them out of commission, but what we're doing in Iraq is futile and that's certainly nothing to brag about to our children.

Carlene · November 18, 2006

Hi Carlene, OK then, I can except the fact OBL is not in Iraq (but then who knows), I never said he was and I don't base my feelings about the War on Terror on Osama. Do you think there is any possibility he could be funding the Jihadists there? If so, then what would be the difference? If he starts or is already funding the Jihadists right here in out little wonderland the USA would it be alright if we fought them back? Or would the fact that 100-31= 69 percent of the people (if you believe the polls) don't think we have the right to live and/or fight them anywhere? So they can come here but we can't go there. I have a right to have a say in what I fear could be the future of my children and grandchildren and I would want them to know I tried in some small way to be a voice for them.

Gail...

The Jihadists in Iraq are not the same breed of terrorists that flew the planes into the WTC. Foreign fighters make up a relatively small slice of the forces targeting the US military in Iraq. Most insurgents are native Iraqi Sunni Islamists or former members of the old Baath party regime. But for the sake of argument, let's say we drop an atom bomb on Iraq and kill everyone. Would that stop the terrorists? Of course not. There are pockets of Jihadists all over the world, and most of those cells are way more dangerous to Americans than Iraq's homegrown variety, who are unlikely to go anywhere else.

There is no way to keep terrorists out of this or any other country, except wholesale discrimination against all Muslims/Middle Easterners. Would you advocate that? Doesn't matter because it ain't gonna happen. My point is, Iraq is no more the enemy than half a dozen other countries, and we aren't stomping thru their streets, killing the citizenry.

Secondly, it is an over-simplification to imagine the Jihadists intend to conquer America or, in this generation, any other Western power. Their goal is to establish (they would say reestablish) a sphere of dominance — financed by oil, armed with nuclear weapons, governed under the laws of Islam — that includes as much of Ottoman Europe as possible, most of Africa and a good part of Asia. America has to be fought because it stands against this goal — a goal that unites Shiites and Sunnis, Wahhabis and Baathists, Nasserites and fundamentalists.

Again, if the US is truly waging war against Jihadists and terrorists, then why aren't we going where the bad guys are? Why aren't we stomping the crap out of Pakistan? And what about the Saudis, our "enlightened" allies? Check out this article from the May 21st Washington Post...

Saudi Arabia's public schools have long been cited for demonizing the West as well as Christians, Jews and other "unbelievers." But after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 -- in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis -- that was all supposed to change.

The problem is: It didn't.

A review of a sample of official Saudi textbooks for Islamic studies used during the current academic year reveals that, despite the Saudi government's statements to the contrary, an ideology of hatred toward Christians and Jews and Muslims who do not follow Wahhabi doctrine remains in this area of the public school system. The texts teach a dualistic vision, dividing the world into true believers of Islam (the "monotheists") and unbelievers (the "polytheists" and "infidels").

This indoctrination begins in a first-grade text and is reinforced and expanded each year, culminating in a 12th grade text instructing students that their religious obligation includes waging jihad against the infidel to "spread the faith".

lisah25 · November 18, 2006

Stop in and say hello to the Jihadists on Fox News Special tonight. Do you really think this started six years ago? How can you guys be so blind to what they want to do to us? I just don't see how you aren't fearing for your lives and your children and grandchildren's lives in the future!!

And invading Iraq did exactly what to make us safer?

lisah25 · November 18, 2006

Meanwhile, ACLU mounts assaults on the Boy Scouts, christian youth groups and ROTC while supporting NAMBLA and gay rights high school clubs. Simply astounding.

The ACLU is supporting NAMBLA?

mousecrazy · November 19, 2006

Jack, I applaud your valiant effort. I hope that your clearly stated arguments might at least inspire some interest in your ideas. I remain hopeful. The new documentary, Obsession, details the goal of Jihadist Islam. There is only one goal, and it is not difficult to understand.

The reason diplomacy has not worked with this mindset is because Jihadists DO NOT WANT to get along; they want dominion. The end.

(**NOTE** I am aware that all Muslims are not Jihadists)

the best me · November 19, 2006

:love: I love Jack :love:

GeezerSue · November 19, 2006

We joined the ACLU this year...and my husband did NOT renew his American Legion membership.

And, the ACLU no more promotes NAMBLA than it does Nazis...it just promotes our bill of rights...which says in effect that stupid, weird, hateful people are allowed to exist.

gailannr · November 19, 2006

That explains a lot! Now I understand where your coming from:)

GeezerSue · November 19, 2006

That explains a lot! Now I understand where your coming from:)

No, I'm quite sure you do NOT understand.

My husband and I are patriotic American military veterans who cherish the freedoms we volunteered our time and potentially our lives to protect. My husband had been a legion member for over 35 years...longer than I've known him. And we are outraged by how the American Legion has joined in lockstep with the Moron-in-Chief, putting neo-con poitics above everything else. (BTW, did you notice how the legion snubbed Tammy Duckworth--the double amputee Iraq war veteran pilot, in favor of the non-veteran Republican? Good move, Legion. Real supportive of Veterans.)

And we are saddened by how many people are unable to see what is happening around them...who will follow blindly without reading outside the party line...who STILL believe there is some connection (other than Dubya) between 9/11 and Iraq...who don't get that what we have done in the Middle East is just making things worse and will cost more American lives...who (mostly) have never lived outside the US...who (mostly) live in their little homogeneous white-bread neighborhoods and have no idea how we look to the outside world...who (mostly) have never been in a minority of any kind...and who CLAIM that they know what is happening in Iraq.

The ignorance is astounding.

Oh...and let's all DO attack an organization the purpse of which is to defend the Bill of Rights. Yup...that's a threat we just can't have.

TruBlueSue · November 19, 2006

Amen from one vet Sue to another!!

Alexandra · November 19, 2006

This discussion gets more and more fascinating, and I'm just in awe of the depth of everyone's knowledge. I'm just popping in to congratulate everyone on keeping it civil and not making it personal.

gailannr · November 19, 2006

Well, this morning I was content to just leave off with the comments and let things rest. Then I went to our "family website." I found the following comments on the site from my brother who was a Vietnam Vet. He has been in the Veteran's Hospital in Mpls. the last week. He is in a wheelchair (10 yrs.) Sidelined not by a war injury but from a inoperable cyst on his spine. I have 5 brothers, three of whom are Vietnam Veterans. They do not regret their service to this country. These are his words that he wrote this morning after arriving home from the hospital one more time! And yes, he was named after Dwight D. Eisenhower.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Once again I am humbled by everyone’s outpouring of Love, Prayers, Well wishes and Kindness. My world is constantly consumed by the Mortality that I face and that struggle would be impossible if not for the Family and friends that I am so lucky to have.

Lew Gehrig was wrong; he was the second Luckiest Man on the Face of the Earth. I truly cherish each and every one of you.

My struggle is far from over and each time the Mountain seems a little taller.. My emotions are closer to the surface than they ever were and Tears come to my eyes with the thought of leaving you. Having said that, all of you give me the strength to keep on fighting the good fight.

My immediate family, ( Mona, Kids, Grandkids AND two sons) are the backbone of that Strength. How I was Lucky enough and smart enough to choose Mona as the one I wanted to spend the rest of my life with I will never know.

This trip to the Veterans Hospital was especially meaningful to me. My first day there I experienced something more moving to me than anything else I have ever experienced. I was simply lying in bed at 11 minutes after 11 on the 11th of November. Lying there thinking of all the great men and women that have walked the halls of that same building, that gave up more than time or money so that I could have all that I have. The Tears ran down my chin like a waterfall.

It helped me to put things in perspective and to understand that there are worse things than being sick. That to fight and go on was easier knowing that some of those brave people have given up their lives so that we, as a family, can have so much of what we have.

Quietly, all across our Country, these major VA’s are expanding services as the wounded return from Iraq and Afghanistan. I was told that Minneapolis had opened a whole new floor just for solders that had serious brain injuries. That also brings tears to my eyes.

Yes, as I started this letter, I am Humbled. Please take a few minutes of your time to mentally thank those that I speak of . They Live and die to protect all that each and every one of us and the lifestyles that we are accustom to.

With that being said, fear not, with all that I have I move forward to once again seeing you all in August.

With all that I am

Dwight

GeezerSue · November 19, 2006

If your brother is receiving medical care at a VA facility and does not have a serivce-connected injury, then he has to be low income or he won't get the care. That is NOT what we were promised. We were promised medical care...period. So an older vet who has a wife and an annual income of $33,000 (for two people) is too wealthy to qualify for the care that was promised to him with NO income needs-test.

Here's some info from outside the ruling junta...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/03/19/dems.radio/

http://veterans.house.gov/democratic/budget/snapshot6-29-05.htm

Dubya's people say, "Well, we're spending more than we did LAST year." Yeah...but you have added THOUSANDS of injured people...many of them with traumatic brain injuries and/or overwhelming ortho injuries...who will need care never before imagined or available. So you add a couple of bucks to the budget AND add many thousands of injured vets and you STILL have fewer pennies available per veteran. (Not to mention that his whole family often has to relocate for the length of his rehab, becaue the local centers have been "consolidated" into the larger ones.)