Let the Joyous news be spread: New Jersey votes yes on Gay civil union!

[Carlene 12]

Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.

You're such a tease, Hunny. I tried this (DH is more than a foot taller than me).....it doesn't work.

Oh, wait.....was that your point???

[BJean 16]

Whew! Betsyjane, that's some heavy reading. Didn't want to wade through all of it because I didn't NEED to wade through it. Nothing I read was a surprise. I've known about Pat Robertson and others for over 20 years. What I never could have predicted was the way that Americans have embraced his words and how people from the "moral majority" have used Christianity as a tool to convince Americans that they are bad people and unpatriotic if they disagree with the "moral majority".

We've seen it happen in Congress during the discussion and appointments to the Surpeme Court during Dubyew's reign of terror.

We've seen it happen with regard to the war in Iraq.

We've seen it in the past two national elections.

We've seen it all around us in every facet of American politics.

Americans better be saying, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

[HunnyBun 2]

You're such a tease, Hunny. I tried this (DH is more than a foot taller than me).....it doesn't work.

Oh, wait.....was that your point???

lol I thought that if all my friends were skinny, I'd get small too. What a heartbreak!

[Carlene 12]

True story...

I used to know someone who worked for Pat Robertson's ministry. She worked in the mailroom. Her instructions were to open the letters and take out the checks, cash, etc and then bag the letters for disposal. No one even read them, let alone prayed over them. The ones he "read" on the air were not even real letters. He wrote them himself.

[gadgetlady 4]

Absolutely. "We the people" means me, too. I'm a voter and every time this issue comes up, I will vote for same sex marriage. If a governor or president vetoes the popular decision, I will vote to remove him/her from office.

It may be "blah blah blah" to you, but to the people whose lives it actually impacts (as opposed to you and I, who have no personal stake in this at all), it is a serious, life-changing matter. It would be gracious of you not to denigrate it.

Sorry about that. I wasn't intending to denigrate it with the "blah blah blah"; I just didn't want to retype the whole thing. Sorry it seemed like it was disrespectful.

[gadgetlady 4]

Re: the woman marrying the dolphin -- Please be clear, I am NOT comparing homosexuality to people marrying animals, and I do NOT believe one leads to the other. I am NOT saying the two are morally equal. The FACT is that someone did it. And my QUESTION is SHOULD IT BE LEGAL? And the POINT of all of this is illustration; for those of you who think it should be illegal, that WE ALL DRAW LINES SOMEWHERE. Some of you seem to draw your lines at polygamy, some at beastiality, some at homosexuality, some at not allowing civil marriage altogether. But you ALL draw lines. And you attack others for where they choose to draw theirs.

[gadgetlady 4]

<font size="3">As much as I like to trade Bible verses, this issue really has nothing to do with what the Bible says about anything.

I wasn't asking to trade bible verses. You made a big point of commenting that you were a lector at church, and I was very curious about something, so I asked if you had ever been asked to read two particular verses -- if yes, what you did, and if no, what you would do. I asked because I honestly wanted to know how you responded or would respond, and how you would resolve your personal convictions about those matters with a request from your church to quote Bible verses that contradict your personal convictions.For the record, I'm still curious.

[gadgetlady 4]

<font size="3"> know plenty of pro-choice people who oppose same sex marriage. What kind of logic is that?

Couldn't agree with you more on that one. I wouldn't understand it, either. I've never met someone with that particular ideology, and it does fly in the face of logic.

[gadgetlady 4]

What an absurd, obnoxious question - as if human beings marrying out of their SPECIES is even valid to the discussion.:faint:

I don't think it's absurd or obnoxious at all. A woman just did it, and it recently made headlines. Tell HER, not ME, that it's absurd and obnoxious. Oh, wait. Then it would appear that you are judging her, and of course NO ONE ON THIS BOARD EVER DOES THAT! We are all completely neutral and never arbitrary.

BTW, believing that human beings evolved from other species and therefore all species are interrelated, why is it NOT ok for one species of animal to marry another species of animal?

[green 6]

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

This is a facinating and chilling document. Thanks for posting this.

[green 6]

I don't think it's absurd or obnoxious at all. A woman just did it, and it recently made headlines. Tell HER, not ME, that it's absurd and obnoxious. Oh, wait. Then it would appear that you are judging her, and of course NO ONE ON THIS BOARD EVER DOES THAT! We are all completely neutral and never arbitrary.

BTW, believing that human beings evolved from other species and therefore all species are interrelated, why is it NOT ok for one species of animal to marry another species of animal?

The issue here is one of informed consent.

[Carlene 12]

I wasn't asking to trade bible verses. You made a big point of commenting that you were a lector at church, and I was very curious about something, so I asked if you had ever been asked to read two particular verses -- if yes, what you did, and if no, what you would do. I asked because I honestly wanted to know how you responded or would respond, and how you would resolve your personal convictions about those matters with a request from your church to quote Bible verses that contradict your personal convictions.For the record, I'm still curious.

I don't specifically recall ever those two verses being on my watch. However, if you attend Mass every Sunday you will hear the entire Bible about every three years, so I've heard/read them numerous times. And I would have no problem reading them from the lectern. Just as I could read, with a straight face, the verses about women remaining silent, being subservient to their husbands, the commandment not to eat shellfish, or this one, from the Song of Solomon...

Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.

Thy teeth are like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them.

Thy lips are like a thread of scarlet, and thy speech is comely: thy temples are like a piece of a pomegranate within thy locks.

Thy neck is like the tower of David builded for an armoury, whereon there hang a thousand bucklers, all shields of mighty men.

Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.

Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, I will get me to the mountain of myrrh, and to the hill of frankincense.

Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.

[gadgetlady 4]

I don't specifically recall ever those two verses being on my watch. However, if you attend Mass every Sunday you will hear the entire Bible about every three years, so I've heard/read them numerous times. And I would have no problem reading them from the lectern.

Thanks for answering, Carlene. I don't attend Mass every Sunday anymore as I am no longer Catholic, but I sure don't remember hearing the entire Bible about every three years! At the Catholic university where I got my degree, I didn't hear it there either. I'm glad to know things have changed.

As to the Song of Solomon, depending on the translation you read (I never liked any translation until I read the NIV, primarily because I hated Shakespearean English and didn't understand what I was reading -- and I think there are a lot of problems with a lot of translations not being true to the original text), it can be a very steamy book. I've kept my kids away from it until they're older because of the questions that might arise!

[Carlene 12]

Thanks for answering, Carlene. I don't attend Mass every Sunday anymore as I am no longer Catholic, but I sure don't remember hearing the entire Bible about every three years!

I'm sorry....I meant to say if you attend Mass every DAY, you will hear the entire Bible every 3 years.

I sometimes attend daily Mass, but not always. I should, but I don't.

[Betsyjane 2]

I'm not Catholic, but I go to Mass alot. The priest has an incredible brain and passion, and I love to hear him. I just sneak into the back row and pretend to know when to sit, stand and kneel, and what the responses are.