So, atheists and other "nonbelievers" make up, I believe, five percent of the population. And sleevers are, what, 1% of the population? Less?

So agnostic/atheist sleevers like me are literally one in a million! I KNEW my momma was right when she said I was "special!"

Parker's Dad, that is one of the many reasons I can't take religion seriously. I grew up Mormon and there was this one lady that always used to pawn her son on my mom so she could run errands. She was a real witch to my mom too and would be super rude sometimes and nice others, my mom wanted to "fit in" so she took it. (We were converts)

Anywho, turns out her errands were cheating on her hubby who was at the time going through chemo for cancer.

Because that is what Jesus would do. Right?

Eventually my mum ended up marrying her hubby -- now ex -- and she tells everyone my mom is a dirty sinner and blah blah blah. But all the same she goes to church, says her vows, takes the sacrament and acts like she has never done any wrong.

This video is 1:48 long. It pretty much stereotypes my opinion of most Christians. If you get through the whole video, let me know and I will mail you a cookie - er, I mean - some unjury chicken Soup.

Parker's Dad, that is one of the many reasons I can't take religion seriously. I grew up Mormon and there was this one lady that always used to pawn her son on my mom so she could run errands. She was a real witch to my mom too and would be super rude sometimes and nice others, my mom wanted to "fit in" so she took it. (We were converts)

Anywho, turns out her errands were cheating on her hubby who was at the time going through chemo for cancer.

Because that is what Jesus would do. Right?

Eventually my mum ended up marrying her hubby -- now ex -- and she tells everyone my mom is a dirty sinner and blah blah blah. But all the same she goes to church, says her vows, takes the sacrament and acts like she has never done any wrong.

Sad stuff...

My mother runs a factory back home. Her and my ex MIL used to work together there. Mom ended up running the place and still does. The ex MIL loved to stir the sh!t pot a lot. I lost the job I had been at and had to have a job so mom let me come and work there in the mean time. She cut me no slack and basically threw me to the wolves so to speak so I saw and heard all the BS that went on from the self proclaimed Christian ex MIL. My ex went to the church and I thought she was all straight. I honestly think she was until she started at a certain job and was convinced by the lady Dr that she was working with that she needed to go on anti depressants.... Long story short she lost her mind! I am not even joking. She wouldn't listen to anyone, not me, her mother, aunts, noone. In short time, she was running around cheating and who knows what all. You just never know about people and what they will do. All that BS just kinda leaves you a little jaded and wandering just why the hell you work your ass off and try to do everything you can to provide and support someone and then they just turn around and stab you in the back like that all the while claiming faith and blah blah blah....

This video is 1:48 long. It pretty much stereotypes my opinion of most Christians. If you get through the whole video, let me know and I will mail you a cookie - er, I mean - some unjury chicken soup.

Priceless...I want my cookie. For those of you who have the time, read the Youtube comments on this vid...they are hysterical.

But really, you ain't seen nothing until you watch her follow up video entitled....and I'm not making this up...."I am not an old doosh bag". Out of decency, I will not link to it, but it's there.

Clearly I've got nothing better to do at 1:30 in the morning than to look at Youtube.

Oh my goodness. So many videos and so many views!

Nope.

Made it to 45 seconds and that was about it...

And just exactly why would you put something like that on Youtube???

and was convinced by the lady Dr that she was working with that she needed to go on anti depressants.... Long story short she lost her mind! I am not even joking. She wouldn't listen to anyone, not me, her mother, aunts, noone. In short time, she was running around cheating and who knows what all.

Sorry to quote out of context, but this sounds like a manic episode; a lot of people who are diagnosed with depression are actually bipolar (manic depressive) and when you put them on antidepressants it brings out the mania. And mania is characterized by grandiose actions without thought of the consequences, up to and including delusions.

I'm on antidepressants, and they do wonderful things for me -- remove my anxiety, keep me from dwelling on negative things I can't control, help get me "out of my head" in social situations. So I try to make sure that antidepressants don't get a bad name. But the flip side is that they are powerful drugs and should only be taken if you're being closely monitored for, e.g. signs of manic behavior. It makes me angry when doctors prescribe these powerful psychotropic (mind altering) drugs and then basically just turn you loose. It's our modern medical system, which is more driven by profit margin than patient care, that I blame.

Ideally, sounds like your ex should have been on some kind of stabilizer as well as the antidepressant. But I'm not a psychiatrist

_{Another proud atheist checking in....}

_{I believe in science and until someone can prove to me their is a God and this is why, I am just not having any of it.}

_{Personally, I think most of the "believers" do so kind of like an insurance policy. They figure if it's true, I want to make sure I am paid up! Seems rather ridiculous to me.}

_{I live a good life, I am honest and quite frankly I don't need to go to a church every 7 days to be reminded how to live and be a good person. If you have to be reminded every 7 days how to be a good person, you truly are the weakest link of the bunch!}

_{Glad to have found this group. I personally think we need to start us a group of "Non-Believer Sleevers!" Anybody with me???}

_{Personally, I think most of the "believers" do so kind of like an insurance policy. They figure if it's true, I want to make sure I am paid up! Seems rather ridiculous to me.}

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

The idea is that if you believe in God and he doesn't exist, you've lost nothing, whereas if you DON'T believe in God and he DOES exist, you burn for all eternity. So, you should believe in God.

Problem with the argument is that the two sides are not equivalent; you don't just have to believe in God to get into heaven, you have to go to church, live by a particular moral code, dress a certain way, act a certain way, and so on. Many people are willing to pay the price, but getting into heaven is certainly not FREE.

Similarly, you have to weigh the LIKELIHOOD of God's existence vs. the cost/benefit. If -- like me -- you think it's very, very, very unlikely that God exists, then that "burn in hell for all eternity" thing is ALSO very, very very unlikely.

Finally, the ultimate rebuttal to someone who's reformulating Pascal's Wager is simply this: okay, I'll believe in God... which one? You see, there are dozens -- hundreds? -- of religions, each claiming to have the One True God, each claiming he has to be worshipped a certain way, each threatening some horrific punishment if you don't comply, and each completely incompatible with the others. It's simply impossible to believe in/worship all of these gods, who each claims to be the One True God, so no matter which one you choose, there are far more possibilities that you'll choose wrong than that you'll choose right. So, without knowing which god to choose, how can you make a choice based on logic?

No, Pascal's Wager SOUNDS good, but it's actually just nonsense. Believe or don't believe, folks, but don't try to pretend that your belief in God is logical. It ain't; it's called faith, either you have it or you don't, and in God -- I don't.

<-- Atheist here

you don't just have to believe in God to get into heaven' date=' you have to go to church, live by a particular moral code, dress a certain way, act a certain way, and so on. Many people are willing to pay the price, but getting into heaven is certainly not FREE.

[/quote']

Just out of curiosity, what religion requires all of this for "salvation"?

Just out of curiosity, what religion requires all of this for "salvation"?

Most of them...? There are a few -- a very few -- denominations that believe that all that is required is faith (and even here I'd differentiate "faith" from "pretending to believe in something because you're scared of being wrong"), but most of them have lots of rituals you have to do, specific moral codes you have to adhere to, holy books you have to read and/or memorize, regular worship you have to practice, and more, if you want to get into their version of heaven. When you add up all the things you have to do to be a good (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto, Zoroastrian, whatever) it's a fair amount of work.

I found this quote a couple of months back and it sums up for me how we should live.

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

If there are gods and they are just

There are no gods.

I agree but that doesn't affect the interpretation of the quote. Simply put it tells you that you should live a good life and I think that is something that we should all aspire to.

If there were Gods then I think the Roman or Greek ones sounded like a hell of a lot more fun than the bunch we have currently, at least they had some character.

The thing that amazes me most is when there is a tragedy and people turn to God. What the! If there was a God and he had power or cared then the tragedy (e.g Tsunami) would not have happened in the first place.Why turn to him after something like this.

There are times though when I wish that there was some kind of afterlife - to punish some of the scumbags that commit such horrific atrocities. Hell should exist for paedophiles, rapists,suicide bombers, serial killers etc.