I'd like to start a discussion about getting our bands around our brains as well as our bellies. I know I need this, since I am a turtle and my brain isn't banded and I'm convinced this is exactly why I'm a turtle. Maybe not all you turtles have these issues, but Carrie just posted a few really good comments over on the Slow Losers Unite thread and I'll copy it here. I hope to have great conversations with you good folks. Carrie, girl, you were right on time for me!

This might be a whole new thread, but I was wondering if any of my fellow Turtles feel the same as me. I don't know if this is right, but I feel like surrounding my surgery (especially afterwards) I was not emotionally prepared for this new way of life. I still had the same brain, even though my stomach was smaller. I still feel sad/bored/happy/any feeling and want to eat. I think about food all the time, where I can eat, how long it will take, etc. And I'm not talking about band issues, just how I would think before banding. I feel like I'm wasting a lot of money because I will order food or buy a dinner and then only eat a little bit, or not be able to eat any at all because the 1st bite gets stuck. But my mind still thinks it can eat it all, and sometimes I try to keep eating even though I am full - it's just the portions I am used to. I think maybe because I was banded in Mexico I wasn't privy to certain programs that prepare you for the aftermath. I am starting to do better, but it has been almost 4 months since I've been banded, and I still have to tell myself that I can't eat certain things, or that I don't need to eat, I'm not hungry, just bored (or whatever). It's kinda hard to do alone, I was wondering if this emotional reconciliation between what was and what now is is the issue for any other Turtles out there, but maybe that's why some of us have had slow weight loss? I am just now realizing all this, but I definitely feel that maybe once my mind catches up with my new stomach, I will lose more weight faster, because I won't be thinking like the old me!?!? Let me know what you

think....

"my mind still thinks I can eat it all, and sometimes I try to keep eating even though I am full"

I don't mind stopping when I am full...but I need to have finished enough of my meal that it seems like I am eating "enough" right? As if I know what a proper food portion is????? Somehow, I can't feel satisfied-mentally-unless I have so much food, whatever in my head that's screwed up that says I have eaten enough.

I think my body knows how much it needs to maintain my weight. It wants it. I'm not only fighting my screwed up metabolism, I'm fighting my body sending "feed me" signals so it has enough not to work so hard. Then I'm fighting my head that says "ooohh yummy" when I'm stressed, or need to care for me, or whatever.

I need to not think like the old me. And maybe now is the time to get on the diet (GASP!!!) I can beat myself up for knowing what NOT to do, or I can teach my head what TO do with a well-balanced, structured diet...Weight Watchers Points, Richard Simmons Deal-a-Meal, Calorie counting, Fit-Day, whatever. I need to learn something new.

Jao started a thread a few days ago saying that she is 8 pounds from her goal and has had no fill. NO FILL!! I find that amazing. Out of the blue, she commented that she thinks she had her head banded at the same time. How'd she do that? I wanna know!!!

So at 4pm today, I had eaten 21 WW points. My max is 25. I'm certain I went over at dinner time. I ate a chicken tender and a scrambled egg. Maybe not? Who know how many points that is. Maybe I did make it. Anyhow, I know with the band, following a plan will be possible. It was pointless before.

I'm also eating more earlier in the day, eating every few hours, and NOT eating after 6pm or so...maybe 7pm on a late night...just no after-dinner Snacks. I AM finding I'm not as hungry at dinner time if I have actually bothered to eat enough during the day...so maybe my weight watchers 21 points gone by dinner was a good thing. I'm certainly not hungry right now at 10pm.

The Water is a given. So is walking/exercise. And going to bed earlier is something new I'm trying to change. I get into the habit of staying up till 1 or 2am, then getting up at 7am and crashing in the afternoons. Not healthy.

Okay, thanks for the journal time everyone...if you got this far! I don't care if noone reads this...it helps to write it and know it's out there somewhere.

First of all.. all of the following info comes from a still unbanded mind!

I am just over 4 weeks post op. Although I have gotten some appetite back, it doesn't compare to what I could eat pre-band. I don't know if it's any form of restriction I have or if it's me mentally trying to adapt to feeling "satisfied". I am trying to learn what satiety is compared to what I always thought it was.

I am doing Weight Watchers right now too, just til I get my fill. Hopefully after that I won't be able to eat all the points anyways.. we'll play that by ear. But the problem I am having is that I can't get motivated to do the walking and working out thing. Maybe the banded mind helps with that. I am hoping my first fill will at the same time, band my brain! I am so ready for that to happen.

As far as still wanting food whenever you're down.. I think that is a battle we will win... in time... with patience.

Kathy,

I think you are right on. That I think is the biggest challenge for me to over come. I know I am not part of the slow losers club but I know that most days I have to fight my mind. Like right now. I am full very full actually but I want to open up the Peanut Butter and have spoon full. Why? because I am a stress eater and there is no need to be. I know we talked about this on saturday at our lunch and I have been thinking about it non stop since them and you know what it's helping. The peanut butter is still in the tub and I will not be eating today. (maybe tomorrow for Breakfast. )

One thing I was told is that I shouldn't follow WW because actually the points are too high for us - it is too many calories for what we should consume. That is just what I was told from my dietcian when I was banded. She said calorie counting is the best for a WLS patient. So be careful on that..Just thought I would pass along what I was told.

I will get on the page of my mind being banded...and thanks to you to you it started on Saturday!

One thing I was told is that I shouldn't follow WW because actually the points are too high for us - it is too many calories for what we should consume. That is just what I was told from my dietcian when I was banded. She said calorie counting is the best for a WLS patient. So be careful on that..Just thought I would pass along what I was told.

I'm not planning on joining WW again (I promised I'd never spend another dime on that stuff!!) but yesterday I was curious what my point count looked like and I had no trouble getting the 21+ points in. According to their charts, I should be eating 25 points a day. That is SOOOO not a problem, but perhaps it's my food choices. Anyhow, it's a curiosity and something to make me take a look at just what is going into my mouth every day. More than I need for weight loss, that's for sure.

Ugghh, I hate counting calories. Maybe I'll do it for a few days just to get a look. If I spend some time overthinking my food, it frees me up to be flexible but still accountable. It's a mind game. Good golly.

I have to thank jao and Nykee for getting this started. Nykee has done some really great journaling lately and it's got me to thinking, too. Then jao chirped up about being 8 pounds from goal with no fill and a band around her head...I feel like I need to get over some kind of mental hump.

What is everybody else doing to change a warped mind?

Okay, get this.

I posted above about WW points and how I had eaten 21 points out of 25 by 4pm. I'm thinking "OMGosh, I'm sunk! Only 4 points left for the day!!!" but, know what? That thinking is all wrong. I only NEED 4 points for dinner. It's GOOD to have eaten that many points that early in the day. I had no trouble with overeating that night. My thinking IS off! I'm so blasted worried about using up all my points and that's the GOAL!!! And the earlier in the day, the better! Why would I be so idiotic as to save 10-12 points for after 6pm? Hellooo!!

So, today I didn't count points. I did the Richard Simmons food Mover. (yeah, I still have all this stuff from my former unbanded life). Last night I got it all ready and slid in the card for 1200 calories, closed all of the empty windows, closed those dumb affirmations, and read up on what to do. this morning I start closing windows, 1 protien, 2 veggies and a protien, a fruit, another fruit, a dairy...blah blah. So at dinner I still had 3 starches left (huh?) and 2 protiens and 2 veggies. Wow! Oh! Plus a fat and my "extra" window!

So for dinner I ate a fairly large salad...2 cups? iceburg lettuce, onion, 1/2 an avocado, chopped, some salad sprinkles for crunch, and 3 ounces of grilled chicken breast. I added a balsamic vinaigrette dressing and had a toasted roll.

I don't know what food groups that falls into, but I closed 2 starches, the fat, the extra, 3 protiens (ate 1 too many), 2 veggies, whatever. I guess I had a dairy and a starch leftover for the day. Wow!

Here's the kicker. I told hubby...wow, that was pretty easy doing the 1200 calories. I'm surprised and happy!! I wonder if I should turn the card over and do the Blast Off Week side? It doesn't say but I'm guessing it's 1000 calories? Guess what...it was already on the Blast Off Week! And it was easy!!

What I learned today...I need to choose better. If I hadn't had the windows to close I never would have eaten that 1/2 banana, the small apple, or the yogurt. I have been complaining of beign hungry in the afternoons and I need to be eating! Not drinking coffee, sneaking halloween candy, nibbling crap. I need to eat! Real food. Earlier in the day.

I love my band even more today. There was no way, pre-banding, I could have handled the Blast-Off Week card and gone to bed satisfied with my food intake for the day. I DO have a band around my brain! I can do this!!!! My band helps ME do it! I have been leaning on my band-and fighting my band- and now I'm going to use it well and do the work myself. Thanks Richard.

That is great...I think I need to invest in the deal a meal....good ole Richard Simmons. You can't go wrong with him.

Kathy you are so good...you inspire me so much!

191.6 this morning...a new low. It's working! Good ole Richard. I don't think he does the Deal-a-Meal anymore. It's the Food Mover I have. Well, I do have a Deal-a-Meal thingy in my drawer but the Food Mover is what I'm using. Can you get this from richardsimmons.com or something? I really like it.

I am at a new low, too - 222. But it's not from eating good, I know that. I've fallen into the eating what goes down easily thing, even though it's not good for me. it seems like evn if I start the day off right, drinking a protein shake and whatever, in the late afternoon I cave and eat tortilla chips and queso (crunchy things go down easy for me). It's probably because I'm not eating enough good food in the beginning of the day, but ??? Sometimes I just black out or something, get a chicken nuggets kids meal from McDonalds, try to eat it, it won't go down, I throw up and then throw everything away...why am I doing this to myself??? I can't seem to get my mind banded, but I'm definitely better than I used to be. I know almost 4 months ago I was 243, and now I'm 222, but it's almost like I can't be proud of it because I lost it the WRONG way. I need some help

I still have not gotten to the point of the mind band. Thank god my band is really restrictive right now and keeping me from eating everything in sight. THe other day I sat and pouted because I wanted pizza so bad but knew if I even tried I would PB the first bite...I literally pouted for hours and just went to be hungry instead. Not being able to give in to those cravings helps me conquer those mind demons. The problem is it is a daily thing. I will be perfectly fine for a few days and then WHAM! a craving hits and there is no stopping me. I need constant control and don't think I will ever have that as long as I have to put food in my mouth and be in public where other people eat every day. I know this is a lifelong struggle and I guess I just need to take one day at a time when it comes to food. The whole point of the band is to stop us when we can't stop ourselves, so don't say it is cheating, say it is a life saver. It's giving us control when we have none. I will take it where I can get it. I count every calorie because for me that is how I control my eating. I can become obsessive about it and if I wasn't over 200 pounds people would say I am anorexic when I get over obsessive. So on a daily basis I don't know which it will be when I wake up. WIll I obsess about what fattening food I want to eat today or will I obsess about the calories going in. SO far the good are outweighing the bad, Thank god...

See, I don't have this problem. I don't generally obsess about food (except for my calorie counting). I'm perfectly happy with the proper food portion, I might not always follow it, but I don't go crazy either. I know a portion size of cookies is 2 sandwich cookies, but I want 4 or 6. But I can't even imagine eating an entire bag of cookies in one sitting, not even before I was banded I couldn't imagine that.