Stop Calling it Socialized Medicine!

[plain 12]

Americans suffer from confusion from all the lousy politicians and media pontificating politicoes.

Why do you keep insisting that Americans are confused? Did The Huffington Post say that or something?

So health care reform is a turd, eh?

Nope. The current version of the reform bill is, though.

What are you going to do, join the rabble rousing folks who are taking it to the streets? That's exactly what I wanted to do when Bush took us into Iraq. But he was our president and we let it play out.

Oh yes, I'm sure President Bush has fond memories of the respectful way the demonstrators made their point. And RE: rabble rousing folks, you might want to remember how liberal college students shouted down every conservative speaker that was invited to speak. And maybe you want to remember how that fine, fine "Code Pink" organization conducts itself with subtly and dignity. In fact, I believe we had a discussion on here, back when the shouters were liberal and the speakers were conservatives. Maybe I'll go looking and re-post....that should be interesting.

Protesting isn't a bad thing if it is genuine. But right now these people aren't protesting, they're inciting to riot.

How do YOU know these protests aren't genuine? Because the democrats say so?

[BethFromVA 5]

Oh yes, I'm sure President Bush has fond memories of the respectful way the demonstrators made their point. And RE: rabble rousing folks, you might want to remember how liberal college students shouted down every conservative speaker that was invited to speak. And maybe you want to remember how that fine, fine "Code Pink" organization conducts itself with subtly and dignity. In fact, I believe we had a discussion on here, back when the shouters were liberal and the speakers were conservatives. Maybe I'll go looking and re-post....that should be interesting.

Libs simply rewrite history.

[pattygreen 5]

bjean, Americans are not confused about what Obabma wants with Health care reform. He wants the government to have MORE control of the people and their choices. Give the people some credit. We're not as stupid as the dems believe us to all be. Also, these protesters are not rabble rousers and their deffinitely not causing riots. They are just angry peeople who are fed up with government interference and spending. Fed up! Obama talks all about this economy "that was handed to him", yet people forget, and I believe it should be talked about more often, that in his OWN first 6 months as president, he has spent MORE than the past president AND all the others since George Washington combined!!!!!! This is ridiculious!. We can NOT afford to pass this bill. There is NOT ONE financial wizard out there who says we can sustain this in the future. Obama needs to start listening to the people. He may speak well, but he doesn't hear well.

[BeckyinTn 0]

Here in Tennessee we had something similar to the health care reform that Obama is wanting to pass. It was called TennCare. The cost was astromomical. The state is broke despite the 9.75% sales tax we are charged on everything we buy. Our sales tax was raised to help pay for TennCare. Our dem gov Phil Bredesen who by the way was a health care exec said that we as a nation CAN NOT afford this to pass the way it is drafted now. TennCare is no longer in existence. The rolls of recipients have been cut and the program pared down. (TennCare was drafted by a rep gov Don Sundquist and a dem Gov Ned Ray McWorter. So this is not to say it is one parties fault or the other. Both are responsible for the mess we are in now!)

And yes Bredesen was and still is a big supporter of Obama!

If people who work in the health care industry are saying that the cost is not sustainable don't you think we need to listen to them?

This should not be Dem vs Repubs. Last time I checked it was United States of America not United States of Dems or United States of Repubs.

If we can't afford it we can't afford it despite who is in office at the moment.

Edited August 7, 2009 by BeckyinTn

[BJean 16]

plain: "Why do you keep insisting that Americans are confused? Did The Huffington Post say that or something?"

You don't think that Americans are confused about what is proposed for health care? Cool. Everybody's onboard. Everybody doessn't want it, right? Ok man, whatever you say.

I do not read the Huffington Post. Is that comment from the same person who says he doesn't ONLY listen to Fox and the right wing politicoes? And he knows what both sides are to the argument? Then why do you think that I don't know both sides to the argument and only read things like the Huffington Post to the exclusion of right wing publications? (That's what you seem to be suggesting.)

plain: "And RE: rabble rousing folks, you might want to remember how liberal college students shouted down every conservative speaker that was invited to speak."

Is that so? EVERY conservative speaker was shouted down at EVERY event where a conservative speaker was invited to speak? My, my, my, that kind of statement gives your real lack of open-mindedness away, plain. I doubt very seriously if EVERY event happened that way.

I also doubt that EVERY town hall meeting held by EVERY Democrat congressperson has been demonstrated against by right wingers. Absolutes will get you everytime. As for finding the place where you think that I said EVERY right winger or EVERY leftist, blah, blah, blah... knock yourself out. It should be entertaining.

There didn't seem to be much media coverage of protests that went on when Bush spoke. Most Bush events were much more controlled. Dissenters were usually kept outside. Notice I didn't say ALWAYS. But it sure wasn't reported by the media very often when it did happen. At least to my knowledge (which we all know is extremely limited, right?)

plain: "How do YOU know these protests aren't genuine? Because the democrats say so?"

No, because I say so. Heh, heh, heh.

Some of the protestors are very genuine. They have been worked into a frenzy and are scared half to death. Of that I have no doubt.

[BJean 16]

Beckyintin: "If people who work in the health care industry are saying that the cost is not sustainable don't you think we need to listen to them?"

People in the health care industry are against this just as the insurance companies are against this. And it's not because they don't think we American middle-class citizens can't afford it. It's because they don't think they can't afford it. It will hit them right in the pocketbook if they are not controlling the health care in America like they have been. They are not working for better health care in America. They are working for a more profitable health care industry - something that makes them better off financially.

If your state botched their health care reforms, then perhaps the Federal Government can learn from that. If your guy and Obama are buddies, don't you think that maybe they've discussed the possibilities?

[BJean 16]

If you're going to categorize political parties, the Repbulicans are famous for rewriting history. Dick Cheney has made that a work in progress since he left office. Musta tried it too early though, it hasn't been working for so well for him.

[plain 12]

You don't think that Americans are confused about what is proposed for health care? Cool. Everybody's onboard. Everybody doessn't want it, right? Ok man, whatever you say.

Ah see, that's my point. You (and dems in general) seem to think that Americans must be confused, just because we aren't buying into President Obama's plan wholeheartedly. Did you (or the dems) ever consider that Americans may be against the plan because they see it isn't a good idea? This is why the dems are so befuddled right now....they can't possibly understand how Americans can't be on board, so they attribute it to confusion, or to misinformation, or to a right-wing conspiracy.

[BJean 16]

You don't think that Americans are confused about what is proposed for health care?

What? You don't think that Americans are confused about what is proposed for health care?

Does that mean that you think all Americans are completely aware of the proposed plan? And you don't think that Americans are the least bit misled or unclear about exactly what would happen if we made this change - or any change that has been talked about?

The Dems are not befuddled. Many are amazed and mystified. And some of them are confused and unclear about the plans that have been proposed.

But not you, of course. You know for a fact that it would be a horrible move for America. Just like all the other Republicans who are staunchly against... well let's face it... they are vehemently against anything that the Democrats and Obama are for. They don't discriminate about what it is that Democrats are proposing, they just discriminate against Democrats and their ideals. They don't have a better plan, they have no plan. They don't know what they want, they know what they don't want. And what they don't want is Obama and Democrats. And to prove it they will take to the streets and they will take to the air and they will take to the internet and they will protest even when they have no idea what they're protesting, other than the fact that the Democrats and Obama are for it.

Hey buddy, you started this line of discussion. You and your pals who are fit to be tied because there are people at LBT who support the idea of a modified and upgraded health care system. You are fit to be tied because you can't believe that people actually care enough about other Americans that they might be willing to do something about it instead of just talking about it.

You people need to go fly a kite. If you spend a little time out in nature, simply flying a kite, maybe you'll get back to the basics of life and give peace, love and respect a chance.

[BethFromVA 5]

I say take it to a vote. From the looks of things, it would fail miserably -- as it should.

The stuff I'm seeing hand hearing shows that people on BOTH sides realize it for what it is -- a power grab that will lessen the care we ALL get.

Heck, you ought to see the results just on FaceBook! Talk about a cross-section of people (in other words, not politically influenced) and it is nearly 80 percent AGAINST, along with some very heated debating (most of them being naysayers, of course).

People aren't being duped by this, and the uprising is a WELCOME change. I see that there will be a democrat town hall in a neighboring town later this month, and assuming I'm going to be in town, I plan on going, camera in hand.

[BethFromVA 5]

BJean, then how do you explain all the liberals who are against it? I've seen TONS.

[plain 12]

You don't think that Americans are confused about what is proposed for health care?

What? You don't think that Americans are confused about what is proposed for health care?

Maybe they are, maybe they're not. I don't just ASSUME one way or the other, like you and the dems. I think it just might be possible that people don't like the plan. Most of the democrats now are so pseudo-intellectually elitist that they ASSUME the public must be confused......for if they truly understood, they'd be behind the bill 1000%.

Does that mean that you think all Americans are completely aware of the proposed plan?

No. Because there are several "versions" being bandied about in various sub-committees, NObody can say, with any authority, that they are completely aware of the plan.

The Dems are not befuddled. Many are amazed and mystified. And some of them are confused and unclear about the plans that have been proposed.

But not you, of course. You know for a fact that it would be a horrible move for America. Just like all the other Republicans who are staunchly against... well let's face it... they are vehemently against anything that the Democrats and Obama are for.

That's true. Some republicans are playing party politics. I hate it just as much when the repubs put party above country as when the dems do it. But at the same time....don't pretend that some dems weren't vehemently against anything that the Republicans and Bush were for.

They don't discriminate about what it is that Democrats are proposing, they just discriminate against Democrats and their ideals. They don't have a better plan, they have no plan. They don't know what they want, they know what they don't want. And what they don't want is Obama and Democrats. And to prove it they will take to the streets and they will take to the air and they will take to the internet and they will protest even when they have no idea what they're protesting, other than the fact that the Democrats and Obama are for it.

Wow, a very strong statement against the republicans. Way to attack the opposition instead of promoting your own ideas.....wait, isn't that what you just damned the republicans for doing?

Hey buddy, you started this line of discussion. You and your pals who are fit to be tied because there are people at LBT who support the idea of a modified and upgraded health care system. You are fit to be tied because you can't believe that people actually care enough about other Americans that they might be willing to do something about it instead of just talking about it.

Well, you got me there. During our secret weekly meetings (when we get together and talk about how to convert LBT'ers to our way of thinking), we are just so fit to be tied!! We are enraged that there are people at LBT who support the idea of a modified and upgraded healthcare system! We will double and triple our fundraising efforts and protestations until we convert all of LBT! Bwa-ha-ha-ha.......By the way, we structured our secret cabal on the "secret group" that REALLY ran the government during the Bush years.

You people need to go fly a kite. If you spend a little time out in nature, simply flying a kite, maybe you'll get back to the basics of life and give peace, love and respect a chance.

I suspect nature would have just as good of a chance of explaining how Obama's plan will work without bankrupting America as any democrat would. Maybe I should give the kite a chance.

I say take it to a vote. From the looks of things, it would fail miserably

Sorry Beth. They have the votes to pass it now (assuming the blue dog dems play ball). The only reason President Obama is still pushing for bipartisan support is so he'll have some cover when all hell breaks loose. He's already said that if a consensus can't be reached by september, he'll push for a vote (regardless of what the public wants).

[BethFromVA 5]

That's true. Some republicans are playing party politics. I hate it just as much when the repubs put party above country as when the dems do it. But at the same time....don't pretend that some dems weren't vehemently against anything that the Republicans and Bush were for.

I have met and talked to SEVERAL liberals who are vehemently opposed to socialized medicine as well.

Sorry Beth. They have the votes to pass it now (assuming the blue dog dems play ball). The only reason President Obama is still pushing for bipartisan support is so he'll have some cover when all hell breaks loose. He's already said that if a consensus can't be reached by september, he'll push for a vote (regardless of what the public wants).

I don't mean those pinheads in Washington who couldn't grab their asses with both hands. I mean a vote by the PEOPLE, the ones who really are supposed to be running this country. I bet if the people were involved, the TRUTH would come out about where we want this country to go.

[shantra 73]

Frankly I don't care whether you call it socialized medicine or not. Although it does rather reek to the American people of something to be deeply feared put like that. I am English and have lived here in the USA for almost 7 years, the health system SUCKS.

I was utterly appalled when I came here and found that there is a level where you can't get care here.. yes.. there really is, no, Medicare and Medicaid don't cover it all.

More appalled to see a dinner benefit being held for a child with cancer to help with medical bills.. say WHAT? At that time in a child or parents life it not the time to be worrying about how to pay for treatment, it sickens me.

To hear my relatives went bankrupt years and years ago when their child died of a brain tumor and they were sunk in medical bills they still haven't paid off. Beyond disgusting.

Then I hear things like.. well why should I pay for people without insurance.. how selfish is that attitude? I want choice, fine, if you can pay for private healthcare as the wealthy do in the UK then do it.

How on earth can America call itself a civilized country when it's own people are dying for lack of treatment or deciding whether they pay for food or medicine especially the young and the old.

I am proud and happy I grew up in England... and never had to worry a minute about any of my families healthcare and none of them had to worry about bills.

If Americans are really so gullible that they fall for all of the propoganda being shoved down their throats while watching endless commercials paid for in massive amounts by pharmaceutical companies raking in millions of YOUR money and Doctors with huge fat paychecks because you are paying them a ton over what you should whilst you pat yourselves on the backs because you have the greatest med system in the world don't you? Open your eyes and look deeper.. you should be DEMANDING that your Government make sure that ALL Americans get quality treatment at very low cost.. because that is how a civilized country SHOULD be.

I have to be here because my American husband is here and I love him so very much and I do love America but I am so very angry for Americans every time this subject is raised and I know they are being lied to by extremists who are probably raking it in and are afraid of losing their cut if the American people rise up.

Where health care is concerned.. God help America if they don't bring this so called socialized medicine in.. I can't wait.. then I can have my kids and grandkids here with me too.

[BethFromVA 5]

Interesting how on a Lap-Band site, this poster's FIRST post ever is on THIS thread.

I say if you like socialized medicine so well, you're free to move back to Europe.