Stop Calling it Socialized Medicine!

[pattygreen 5]

As much as Beth disgusts me with her name calling and her imaturity, I have to agree with her on the issue of cost. More than once the government has introduced a plan and said that they could afford it and in the end has caused much debt and turmoil. It is proven that the things that the government get their hands on cost far, far more than the way private businesses can do it. If this plan passes, and I believe it will, there will be no turning back. We will be bankrupt as a country. Did I hear that our debt will equal to approx. $34,000. per person in America if this passes? WOW!

There is no arguement, bjean, that we need some kind of health care reform, but THIS bill isn't it. Many are bringing their plans for reform into the light. Obama should hold on and review them all. We've had this problem for soooooo many years, what's the BIG rush now? It can wait a few more months, to THINK about what to do. It's not just the politicians who can think and plan out good things.

[plain 12]

You've already given Obama lots 'o power via Bush's tenure. Why worry? There won't be another Bush president. Jeb has too many skeletons in the closet. Or were you talking about one of Dubya's daughters? Har!

BJean, you may be the most literal person in this debate. My point was that all this power you're so keen on passing now will eventually be in the hands of another president. Maybe even one you distrust. I saw today that there's a provision in the house bill that would the government direct access to your bank account. You comfortable with that?

It's a numbers game? All trumped up for effect? Just like the game the Bush administration played on Americans? Yeah, right.

Sheesh. Did you know there's a popular drinking game on LBT where the players have to take a shot everytime you bash / blame Bush. Nobody has lasted more than 3 posts before passing out.

If you really want to play a "numbers game", take a look at OVERALL health care stats. Democrats love to cherry pick that infant mortality rate stat, but are strangely quiet when it comes to cancer survival rates, or transplantations.

Perhaps you folks in Texarkana have the most fabulous health care in the world and if so, no wonder you can't grasp that everyone else does not. Yeah, Texarkana... they have it all figured out. When DD lived there in the 70's, that sure was not the case. Glad to know it's improved by massive leaps and bounds. Hurrah for ya'll.

It's statements like this that that make you look bitter. Sure, we have pretty good care here. The most fabulous in the word? Probably not. I hate that your daughter had some kind of issue with Texarkana, Texas in the 70's, but c'mon.......that was only 39 years ago. Sheesh.

That's a partial government list, btw, and yeah, please take them on one by one. And this time be thorough and cite statistics and history and accomplishments vs. failures. Otherwise you're whistling in the wind.

Ok, I'll work on that. Will you reply to the facts or make some weird statements about where I live? Maybe you could point out how unpatriotic I am, or maybe as a fat man, how I'm contributing to America's healthcare costs?

You're always saying that I don't answer questions. Perhaps you learned something from me, eh? Because you're great at making proclamations, but you don't seriously answer questions.

What specifically have I not answered to your liking? Ask again and I will answer. On a side note, when I read your posts, a lot of what you say comes off as rhetorical questions....so maybe that's why I skipped a question? Anywho, just ask.

I'm outa here - on vacation at long last. I hope I don't have to go to the hospital or doctor on this trip. No telling whether or not they'll kill me. Good chance they will at least give me staph infection.

*heavy sigh*

[KartMan 58]

The Nation -- Ok, so there's been a lot of misinformation about proposals to reform the health insurance industry and provide (near) universal coverage. Understandable! It's complicated stuff. Herewith, I'll try to answer some questions

1) Is it true that all of the bills currently proposed would end the practice of "rescission," whereby health insurance providers refuse to treat customers who've paid their premiums simply because they've become ill?

No! That's a common misunderstanding. Actually, all of the bills would ban incisions, that is, they would legally bar surgeons from performing surgery until a panel of twelve gay illegal immigrant government bureaucrats unanimously signed off on the procedure.

2) Is it true that health care reform would ban insurers from refusing to insure people because of pre-existing conditions?

Wrong again. To get rid of health inequality, the bills actually mandate that every American be given a pre-existing condition. A National Illness Commission, with academics appointed from Harvard, Reed College and Berkeley, will evaluate each citizen, and based on their demographic profile, choose their malady. Each disease or syndrome is scored on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most severe. White christian men will receive pre-existing conditions of 8 or higher. Black people, "wise latinas," and ACORN members will be exempted.

3) I heard the proposals currently under consideration provide seniors with option of free counseling sessions under Medicare, where they can discuss a living will and end-of-life care.

That's a huge misconception. The bills require all senior citizens (who are non union members) be euthanized on their 70th birthday. Under section 278©ii all last rites will be performed by Jeremiah Wright using a Q'uran.

4) I've heard the bills being proposed would require insurers to provide preventative care, like mammograms, free of charge.

No, but all lactating mothers will be forced to breast-feed poor children.

5) Will the current bills plug the "donut hole" in the Medicare prescription drug benefit so seniors don't have to pay exorbitant out of pocket expenses for their medication?

Absolutely not. The legislation will ban donuts.

Number 3 has been revised.

Last rights will now be prohibited and considered illegal as they would be a violation of Separation of Church and State laws. Since the entire medical system will be socialized, last rights would normally be administered in too close of proximity to medical care and we just can’t have that. Since all the doctors will be government employees and hospitals will be government buildings, priests and rabbis will not even be allowed on the premises. So from now on, we will all be euthanized in a purely secular fashion. To save even more money and to help protect the environment, all bodies in a county will be cremated en mass and together once a month. Eight ounces of the common ashes will be distributed to families of the deceased, the rest will be recycled into fertilizer.

[plain 12]

Number 3 has been revised.

Last rights will now be prohibited and considered illegal as they would be a violation of Separation of Church and State laws. Since the entire medical system will be socialized, last rights would normally be administered in too close of proximity to medical care and we just can’t have that. Since all the doctors will be government employees and hospitals will be government buildings, priests and rabbis will not even be allowed on the premises. So from now on, we will all be euthanized in a purely secular fashion. To save even more money and to help protect the environment, all bodies in a county will be cremated en mass and together once a month. Eight ounces of the common ashes will be distributed to families of the deceased, the rest will be recycled into fertilizer.

Untrue. The remains will go into what is mysteriously being referred to as the "Soylent Green" program. IDK what exactly that is.

[KartMan 58]

Untrue. The remains will go into what is mysteriously being referred to as the "Soylent Green" program. IDK what exactly that is.

LOL:laugh:

I actually considered using a Soylent Green reference in my post but I didn’t think there were any dorks out there like me that even would know what it means, I guess I s wrong.

[Devana 0]

Can anyone tell me what exactly does Medicaid pay for and what the program controls?

[plain 12]

Can anyone tell me what exactly does Medicaid pay for and what the program controls?

Medicaid is mostly state-run, so each state will be have slightly different things its medicaid program pays for. I always think of medicaid as "medicare light". Where medicare mostly covers older citizens, medicaid covers lower-income people, unemployed and disabled citizens, and specialized groups (like pregnant women).

Because it's mostly state run and funded, the reimbursements are typically very, very low. Because of low reimbursements, many doctors and hospitals don't like to accept medicade patients.

[pattygreen 5]

Medicaid is mostly state-run, so each state will be have slightly different things its medicaid program pays for. I always think of medicaid as "medicare light". Where medicare mostly covers older citizens, medicaid covers lower-income people, unemployed and disabled citizens, and specialized groups (like pregnant women).

Because it's mostly state run and funded, the reimbursements are typically very, very low. Because of low reimbursements, many doctors and hospitals don't like to accept medicade patients.

So then, why the need for another government health care plan? Most people who are not financially able to buy their own ins. can get medicaid, and the elderly can get medicare. Oh yeah, the illegals. What can they get for free? Wait... How about Obama care? if it's passed.

Most people who are uninsured is because they either don't want to pay for it and can, they are between 18 and 25 and opt out, they choose not to sign up for medicaid, or their illegals. The idea that there are 45 million in this country uninsured may be true, but the reasons for that are their own.

[katklaws 0]

Oh, don't get me started. We are no where near socialized medicine. I was at a Town Hall filled with hecklers, and a Congressman asked people to raise their hands who were on Medicare, and a whole bunch of them raised their hands.

Some people need something to bitcha bout, hate any change, and are playing right into the Karl Rove/insurance industry play book.

[plain 12]

So then, why the need for another government health care plan? Most people who are not financially able to buy their own ins. can get medicaid, and the elderly can get medicare. Oh yeah, the illegals. What can they get for free? Wait... How about Obama care? if it's passed.

Most people who are uninsured is because they either don't want to pay for it and can, they are between 18 and 25 and opt out, they choose not to sign up for medicaid, or their illegals. The idea that there are 45 million in this country uninsured may be true, but the reasons for that are their own.

But.....Medicare pays so poorly that many docs and private (not community) hospitals won't take it, because they lose so much money. So actually, that makes the patients with medicare basically uninsured.

Medicare is a nightmare. That's one of the reasons that I can't support Obama's plan....part of his "reform savings" is to shift more patients into medicare (basically so they can claim that the federal government is saving money, but at the cost of the states). There doesn't need to be any more people subjected to medicare.

I agree that there is a percentage of people that choose not to buy insurance (whether it be because they think they are young and don't need it, or don't want to spend that extra money, or whatever), and I believe that shouldn't be forced into buying if they don't want to.

However, there is a need for healthcare reform. I don't know anybody that won't concede that the system badly needs to be "tweaked". Am I ok with increased regulation on the insurance companies? Sure. Howz about tort reform? Let's do it. Here's what I don't want: Government sticking it's huge, inefficient nose in and nudging the nation even closer to a "nanny state" than we already are.

Oh, don't get me started. We are no where near socialized medicine. I was at a Town Hall filled with hecklers, and a Congressman asked people to raise their hands who were on Medicare, and a whole bunch of them raised their hands.

Which congressman was that? And how does a large number of people on medicare affect anything?

[katklaws 0]

But

Which congressman was that? And how does a large number of people on medicare affect anything?

Oh, they were the ones bitching about government run health care. HELLOOOO!!!!!

Seriously, most of the people that show up at these town halls are misinformed. And they watch Glenn Beck all day, so they have to emulate the tone, posturing, outrage, and yelling. It's a lack of civility that does nothing to address the problem. It just makes the other side look stupid.

The thing is, varying opinions are good. All sides have perspectives to contribute. It's the misinformation and fanatic frenzy that is just embarassing. Debate your points in a calm, concise, truthful, educated manner, or get the hell out of the way for those who are versed on the issue. If this segment of protestors can be so easily manipulated to act out with swastikas and assault weapons, maybe they need a time out or medication. And need to exit the debate entirely.

Which congressman, if I told you that you could probably find me. No thanks. I don't need raving lunatics finding me any more than they already have.

And I totally disagree with your assessment of our country's status on health care. We're at the bottom because we don't have universal access, not because of medicare. It "is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship. 28 industrialized nations have single payer universal health care systems, while 1 (Germany) has a multipayer universal health care system like President Clinton proposed for the United States.

Government's administrative costs are much lower (3%)than the private sector (20 - 30$) because it isn't for PROFIT ... same with transportation.

http://againstallclods.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/the-simple-and-accurate-way-to-understand-the-health-insurance-reform-issue-part-1/

So now that we choose to civilly disagree ..why don't the folks from TX just secede from the nation and get it over with?

Edited August 19, 2009 by katklaws
added more stuff, cause that's what I do.

[pattygreen 5]

But.....Medicare pays so poorly that many docs and private (not community) hospitals won't take it, because they lose so much money. So actually, that makes the patients with medicare basically uninsured.

Medicare is a nightmare. That's one of the reasons that I can't support Obama's plan....part of his "reform savings" is to shift more patients into medicare (basically so they can claim that the federal government is saving money, but at the cost of the states). There doesn't need to be any more people subjected to medicare.

I agree that there is a percentage of people that choose not to buy insurance (whether it be because they think they are young and don't need it, or don't want to spend that extra money, or whatever), and I believe that shouldn't be forced into buying if they don't want to.

However, there is a need for healthcare reform. I don't know anybody that won't concede that the system badly needs to be "tweaked". Am I ok with increased regulation on the insurance companies? Sure. Howz about tort reform? Let's do it. Here's what I don't want: Government sticking it's huge, inefficient nose in and nudging the nation even closer to a "nanny state" than we already are.

Medicare is for the elderly, right? That's what my parents have. They get good care and they see any doctor they want. Some pay $99. a month for supplemental ins. that will cover what medicare doesnt. It's the state ins. that doesn't pay well and it is for those who don't work, or have jobs that don't help them with ins. and if they are income eligible, they can get on it. Yes, they don't always have enough doctors, and they have longer wait times to see one because of it, but that's what you get when you get something for free. At least they get it. I was once on state medical ins. when I was on welfare many years ago, and it wasn't the best, but I was grateful for it because it was free for me. If we have a government run ins. company for health care, it will be like that. It will be an option for the people who can't afford better, but eventually all ins. companys will not be able to compete with it and they will go out of business one at a time and then all that's left will be the government plan. This is their goal. Total control. I don't want it either.

[katklaws 0]

companys will not be able to compete with it and they will go out of business one at a time and then all that's left will be the government plan. This is their goal. Total control. I don't want it either.

That is just not true! More misinformation.

Do you really think the federal government wants that responsiblity and cost? Do you really think additional competition won't help costs? This is what I am talking about.

I tell people, live by your values, but GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT. Policy and media is what I do for a living. I have analyzed this and I am SO sick of people who get it wrong so vehemently and incorrectly. Policy can't be created through misinformation.

Right now Barney Frank is my hero. The brutal truth is needed. Finally, somebody who has the balls to stand up and address the nonsense.

Barney Frank goes toe to toe at health care town hall - CNN.com

[plain 12]

Oh, they were the ones bitching about government run health care. HELLOOOO!!!!!

But, I still don't get your point. Are you saying that it's the people that recieve medicare that are at the forefront of the town hall protests? Really?

that does nothing to address the problem. It just makes the other side look stupid.

I agree. The yelling is disrespectful. I would much rather the folks ask questions quietly and let the officials scramble to try and answer them with vague platitudes.

manipulated to act out with swastikas and assault weapons, maybe they need a time out or medication.

So, did you yourself witness swastikas and assault weapons at your town hall meeting? Or are you regurgitating what some other person claims to have seen?

If

I told you that you could probably find me. No thanks. I don't need raving lunatics finding me any more than they already have.

Well dang. You foiled my plot to hunt down a poster from a gastric banding website to let loose a flood of angry protesters. Ps- If I wanted a clue as to where you were from, I guess I could check your bandster profile to see where you had your surgery. Just saying.......

I was just curious as to what town hall you were in, if it was one of the televised more rowdy ones. What with the swastikas and assault rifles and stuff going down there.

It "is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee access to health care as a right of citizenship.

Also we're the only industrialized nation that doesn't staunchly secure it's borders. Maybe if millions of illegal immigrants were flooding the medical system of those other countries every year, then they'd have a different policy. Because do those illegals get medical care here in America, despite their lack of citizenship? Yep.

So now that we choose to civilly disagree ..why don't the folks from TX just secede from the nation and get it over with?

Wow....so great to debate somebody with an "open mind". Maybe you should re-read your own post where you earlier advised the protesters to debate their points in a "calm, concise, truthful, educated manner, or get the hell out of the way". Or were you seriously thinking that a Texas secession would solve the nation's healthcare problems?

I tell people, live by your values, but GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT. Policy and media is what I do for a living. I have analyzed this and I am SO sick of people who get it wrong so vehemently and incorrectly.

Oh....well then...you convinced me. Did you hear that guys? Policy and media iswhat katklaws does for a living!! She has analyzed this!! We can totally trust her even though she wouldn't even reveal what townhall meeting she went to that was being disrupted by rowdy medicaid patients . I guess you win.

[katklaws 0]

But, I still don't get your point. Are you saying that it's the people that recieve medicare that are at the forefront of the town hall protests? Really?

Most of the clueless tea partiers use government services. That's a fact Jack. They come rolling up in wheelchairs, drive on the roads, and use government programs. Hypocrites that watch too much Glenn Beck and think that it's normal to rant and rave as loudly as possible.

I agree. The yelling is disrespectful. I would much rather the folks ask questions quietly and let the officials scramble to try and answer them with vague platitudes.

There are answers to every question, folks just have to shut up long enough to hear them. It's quite simple. when you're yelling about death panels, which is right out of a science fiction movie, it's hard to hear the facts.

So, did you yourself witness swastikas and assault weapons at your town hall meeting? Or are you regurgitating what some other person claims to have seen?

Yyyuup!

Well dang. You foiled my plot to hunt down a poster from a gastric banding website to let loose a flood of angry protesters. Ps- If I wanted a clue as to where you were from, I guess I could check your bandster profile to see where you had your surgery. Just saying.......

It's a little more complex that that. I have had an actual stalker before. That's just the beginning.

I was just curious as to what town hall you were in, if it was one of the televised more rowdy ones. What with the swastikas and assault rifles and stuff going down there.

Let's see there was Dingell's, and Peters and Schauer's ... death threats at John Dingell's son Chris, and Swastikas and nazi symbols at Schauer's ... lost of morons yelling stuff that wasn't even remotely true.

Also we're the only industrialized nation that doesn't staunchly secure it's borders. Maybe if millions of illegal immigrants were flooding the medical system of those other countries every year, then they'd have a different policy. Because do those illegals get medical care here in America, despite their lack of citizenship? Yep.

Well, if you read the bill, which I know you haven't, you would know that illegals aren't included in the public option. Just sayin ..

Wow....so great to debate somebody with an "open mind". Maybe you should re-read your own post where you earlier advised the protesters to debate their points in a "calm, concise, truthful, educated manner, or get the hell out of the way". Or were you seriously thinking that a Texas secession would solve the nation's healthcare problems?

I welcome opinions that are different from mine, have many conservative friends, but they're not morons. They see the yelling of misinformation for what it is. People that make their position look bad.

I wouldn't say I have the most open mind. But I research the facts, and then I have an informed mind. And I don't yell.

Texas Texas .. I don't think it would be a huge loss if they just got it over with and created their own little island.

Oh....well then...you convinced me. Did you hear that guys? Policy and media iswhat katklaws does for a living!! She has analyzed this!! We can totally trust her even though she wouldn't even reveal what townhall meeting she went to that was being disrupted by rowdy medicaid patients . I guess you win.

You are only talking to the guys? Figures. And in case you don't know I will warn you now, I am usually right.

Here's a little Daily show to put it into perspective.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

Click on Barney Frank's Town Hall Snaps ..love Daily show!! LOVE.

Edited August 20, 2009 by katklaws