The early founders of our Nation came to set up a government based on Christian principals. They yearned for a new world where they could establish a society based on biblical values and morals. Our founding Fathers recognized the fact that virtue is crucial to wise leadership. Character does matter. Voters often accept character flaws like marital infidelity and are told not to focus on a candidates "personal life" but to "concentrate on the man". Many Americans fail to realize that a man who will lie to his own wife and break his marriage vows will think nothing of lying to his constituents and breaking his campaign promises.

Whatever happened to America? How did we get from Godly leaders to greedy politicians? We've come from colonial christian education to pagan public schools. How did we get from the puritans' influence and the Great Awakening to secular humanism and a valuless society?

The Founding Fathers had ample evidence that unrestrained democracy led to anarchy. Having witnessed the chaos in France, "the religiously minded leaders and citizens" decided "to choose delegates who had a deep commitment to religious roots of the colonists who established this country". Those who attended the Constitutional convention in 1787 in Philadelphia were selected for their deep commitment to Puritan and Calvinistic doctrine as well as for other political considerations. Their goal was not to establish a democracy in which "Every man does that which is right in his own eyes". Instead, they formated a representative form of government based on divinely inspired law. The Constitution they wrote and the gov. they founded upon it verified that they never intended to establish a secular nation. Instead it was and still is "One Nation Under God." There is no doubt about it--America was established as a christian nation based on biblical principles. I have my opinions on what has happened to America. What are yours? If you want to discuss this with me, please post.

patty, you want christianity ..." in general, to be recognized as the faith of our founders and their plan for this country. I would like people to stop trying to push God out of everything public."

Our founding fathers didn't want you to be able to impose that wish on your fellow Americans. That is why they did everything in their power to ensure that you were not able to do it.

You have interpreted the founding father's written words to mean something that in fact, is the opposite of what they intended. Interesingly, you do not state that your interpretation of the founding fathers words are what you believe, you state that what you post is FACT.

You also interpet the Bible and rather than claim that it is your interpretation, or your belief, you state that what you post about the Bible is FACT.

Obvioulsy these claims really do nothing to further your cause or to give yourself any credibility as being a philosopher, an intellectual, well-educated or a just plain wise person. This is evidenced by the fact that given the constant postings that you make and the constant insistence that you know these things as FACT, if you were really were seen to be intellectually superior, philosphical, well-educated and wise, you would get someone to back up your claims from time to time. Maybe you do, but if so, I have missed it.

No one's God has any place in the public.

Respectfully, I disagree. The point of our country is that everybody's god has a place in the public. There's a big difference.

How can you be so vain as to claim there is only one God for everyone?

There can ONLY be one God who made mankind. What do you think, a hundred little gods got together and created everyone and everything? No. One God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Someones got to have it right. I worship that one. The one who created everything, so I have it right. If you believe in Him and worship that one also, then you have it right, too.

patty, you want christianity ..." in general, to be recognized as the faith of our founders and their plan for this country. I would like people to stop trying to push God out of everything public."

Our founding fathers didn't want you to be able to impose that wish on your fellow Americans. That is why they did everything in their power to ensure that you were not able to do it.

They didn't want any one particular christian church to set themselves up as the ruling church. It wasn't that they didn't want christianity in government. They were fed up with that over in Europe, where the catholic church ruled. In this country, christianity is the founding faith, but we have many denominations of christianity (catholic, protestant, methodist, Lutheran, pentecostal, etc.)They didn't want any ONE denomination of christianity in the rule, and that's why they wrote what they did in the constitution. Not to get rid of christianity as the ruling authority in America. In a speech on July 4, 1847, Pres. Adams made the point that it was no accident that our Nations birthday and the birthday of Jesus Christ were the 2 most celebrated holidays in America at the time-both crucial to God's plan for mankind. He also noted that "The declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemers mission upon the earth," and that it "laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity".

You have interpreted the founding father's written words to mean something that in fact, is the opposite of what they intended.

No. You have.

Interesingly, you do not state that your interpretation of the founding fathers words are what you believe, you state that what you post is FACT.

You also interpet the Bible and rather than claim that it is your interpretation, or your belief, you state that what you post about the Bible is FACT.

What I say the bible says is not my interpretation. It is exactly as God says.

Obvioulsy these claims really do nothing to further your cause or to give yourself any credibility as being a philosopher, an intellectual, well-educated or a just plain wise person.

I don't claim to be a philosopher, well educated or an intellectual superior or a wise person. I believe I am just an ordinary person like the rest of you. No one special or unique. Just someone who can read the scriptures, and when I do that, God reveals his truths to me as he will to anyone else who will take the time to read them. The wisdom of the world is foolishness in God's eyes. He feels that those who think they are so smart, like philosophers and scientists and wise intellectuals are simply foolish. He alone is wise.

This is evidenced by the fact that given the constant postings that you make and the constant insistence that you know these things as FACT, if you were really were seen to be intellectually superior, philosphical, well-educated and wise, you would get someone to back up your claims from time to time. Maybe you do, but if so, I have missed it.

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Respectfully, I disagree. The point of our country is that everybody's god has a place in the public. There's a big difference.

To me, it is like this - if my kids are fighting over something, I take it away. With so many different religions in this world, people need to practice their particular faith in the private sector, not in public institutions. It is too sensitive a subject to expect billions of people to get along about. Every person believes their particular faith to be valid and truthful. If we were to bring everybody's god into public and, for instance, represent all persons faiths during school prayer we would spend all day on it.

How can you be so vain as to claim there is only one God for everyone?

There can ONLY be one God who made mankind. What do you think, a hundred little gods got together and created everyone and everything? No. One God created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Someones got to have it right. I worship that one. The one who created everything, so I have it right. If you believe in Him and worship that one also, then you have it right, too.

What do YOU think? A magical being waved his hand and conjured up the universe? Are you serious? Ok, ok, I get it. you are entitled to believe whatever you want. Personally, I think I have it right, Our universe was created by a random act of nature. It is beautiful and should be cherished but there is not a man or god up in the clouds who created it for us. Religiocentrism is the belief that ones religion is superior to anouthers. Your religion is based on speculation, as is all religions, IMO and faith should be a matter of practice rather than a declaration of absolute truth.

If we were to bring everybody's god into public and, for instance, represent all persons faiths during school prayer we would spend all day on it.

Right....but what about a time dedicated to silent prayer or meditation, where an individual could pray to any god they wanted, or if they are an atheist, think about homework or clowns or sex or whatever. Would you be against something like that?

And how does saying that we are only accountable to God contradict that? We are accountable to God for everything we do in the flesh, whether good or bad. We have the free will to choose to do good or to choose to do bad. We will also have to answer to him for it all someday. Please explain how I have contradicted myself with those words.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood you. I get confused by your direction when you say we have free will and that God knows the outcome of everything. Those two ideas seem mutually exclusive to me. I see that is not what you were saying this time, but you say it so much that I guess I just read it that way.

As for the rest of your statement, I would just correct you and say that YOU are accountable to God. Since I don’t believe as you do, I am accountable to own belief system.

Your last statement caught me. We were 'once' a christian nation and we should have stayed that way. Why do you feel that now that we have become secular, that we should stay that way? That was not our founding fathers original plan. We should not have changed our views. Why is it okay for you to desire our nation to exclude God from it's governing, but it's not okay for me to want to go back to the original intent of this countries founding fathers and put God back where He rightfully belongs? As the Lord of this nation?

I do not agree with you that we were a Christian Nation. I will grant you that there were (and are) a lot of Christian Politicians, but that is not the same thing. To say we were a Christian Nation would imply that it was our state sponsored religion. The Islamic Republic of Iran is a Moslem country, Israel is a Jewish country, we are not a Christian country because we have chosen not to pick a specific religion as our state religion.

It is certainly ok for you to WANT to make God a part of our government, this is a democracy so you can try. But you can’t just want it, for it to happen you need to change the politicians, the laws, and the minds of a lot of people. I take comfort in knowing that even most religious people don’t want that so good luck in that effort.

I thought I'd like to add that I don't believe I'm a religious fanatic. I hate organized religions made up by mankind. I think they cause alot of problems in the world. I'm more for a faith in Jesus as our creator fanatatic and in having a relationship with him (outside of religion).That's why I don't want any specific 'religion' to be the head faith in America.(Nor did those who wrote up the constitution). Not even any Christian religion. I just want christianity in general, to be recognized as the faith of our founders and their plan for this country. I would like people to stop trying to push God out of everything public.

Ok, you’ve said this before (that you are not a fan of religious institutions). Let’s just say that your dream came true and you were able have God in our laws and Government. This would mean that you could abolish abortion, have prayer in schools, and all the other stuff you want. Since you don’t care for “religions” who would mandate the ideology? Surely you must understand that even in a group of Christians your views are not exactly the same as everyone else’s. Who would decide? Don’t you see that is precisely why religion doesn’t belong in government?

kool kartman. kool, kartman.

Right....but what about a time dedicated to silent prayer or meditation, where an individual could pray to any god they wanted, or if they are an atheist, think about homework or clowns or sex or whatever. Would you be against something like that?

First of all, I think it is amusing that you think an atheist would think about 'homework or clowns or sex of whatever'. Surely you know that atheists can come up with something a little more profound than that during times of quiet reflection. Second of all, there is nothing to prevent a person from having a silent prayer whenever he/she sees fit. Prayer and meditation is something, I believe, that should be practiced at home with ones family, especially with small children. We outsource so much of our parental responsibilities these days and we are forgetting that parents are the teachers, first and foremost. Religious and spiritual education should start with the family and stay within the organizations that serve that purpose, not public schools.

Right....but what about a time dedicated to silent prayer or meditation, where an individual could pray to any god they wanted, or if they are an atheist, think about homework or clowns or sex or whatever. Would you be against something like that?

Are you saying that employers should pay for a religion or meditation break? You have a lunch break, sounds like a perfect time to meditate or pray or do whatever you like.

kool kartman. kool, kartman.

BJean, I was wondering when you were going to join this party. Better late than never:thumbup:

First of all, I think it is amusing that you think an atheist would think about 'homework or clowns or sex of whatever'. Surely you know that atheists can come up with something a little more profound than that during times of quiet reflection.

Oh, come on now. I was trying to keep it light. And I was specifically speaking of schools.

Second of all, there is nothing to prevent a person from having a silent prayer whenever he/she sees fit.

That's what I wanted to know.

Are you saying that employers should pay for a religion or meditation break? You have a lunch break, sounds like a perfect time to meditate or pray or do whatever you like.

I agree. I was speaking specifically of schools, BTW