In June my church is doing a series where the members get to ask questions the the pastor, and he will be answering them during service. I know there are many non believers around here that make some interesting points when debating religion and I was just wondering if anyone would be willing to list them here so I could submit them. For example one statement I remember reading on LBT was along the lines of why bother praying when God already has his plan-it's not like you can change it. That is certainly something that I would be very interested in hearing an answer to. Anyhow I know there are some very intelligent people aruond here and I would totally be interested in hearing what you had to say. And no I am not looking to take anykind of credit for any questions as it is an anonymous thing.

Again, I am NOT looking for any kind of debate (you know who you are and I have you blocked anyhow) on this thread. I guess I am just trying to look at why people don't believe in a higher power.

Funny, we tend to think of *some* believers as too stupid to think for themselves so they must turn to their religious leader or bible to form their opinions. We kinda think some of you are coming up short in the "common sense" area and that is why you must rely on believing the impossible. We have strong hopes for you that someday you too, can think for yourself.

Amazingly, common sense does not mean believing in talking snakes or that a butcher of a God can slaughter millions of innocents (including children) while calling it just and loving.

Sure hope that answer helps you out there. Since you are unable to come up with a question actually for the pastor here and you are just taking shots at atheists, can I assume you are another one of those loving Christians I keep hearing about? I'm sure you are proud.

Kewl Beans. Prove it.

I don't know if I qualify as "highly educated" but I do have a collage degree and was near the top of my class. I am also a Christian who believes in the big bang theory. Because when God said let there be light, who is to say that was not the light? Then again who is to say it was? My belief in God is what helps me get through the day sometimes and if handing my worries and fears off to someone "fictional" makes me feel relief and peace in my life then that is good enough for me. As for my prayers, they are alway answered. Sometimes it is just not the answer that I want. Praying for me is having a conversation with God. I know it does not change the outcome, but again, it makes me feel good when I lay down in bed at night. My goal and purpose in life is to be the best person that I can be and not worry about what everyone else is doing. Believe, don't believe. My job is not to convince anyone else that God is real.

Oh and Wasa that really wasn't directed toward you, yours was just to most recent post addressing the issue and I was too lazy to go back a page lol.

I don't know if I qualify as "highly educated" but I do have a collage degree and was near the top of my class. I am also a Christian who believes in the big bang theory. Because when God said let there be light, who is to say that was not the light? Then again who is to say it was? My belief in God is what helps me get through the day sometimes and if handing my worries and fears off to someone "fictional" makes me feel relief and peace in my life then that is good enough for me. As for my prayers, they are alway answered. Sometimes it is just not the answer that I want. Praying for me is having a conversation with God. I know it does not change the outcome, but again, it makes me feel good when I lay down in bed at night. My goal and purpose in life is to be the best person that I can be and not worry about what everyone else is doing. Believe, don't believe. My job is not to convince anyone else that God is real.

My post really wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the rude one. She did not do a good job of coming up with a reason to insult atheists and I just gave her a little of her own medicine. I just turned the tables on her.

I don't care what people believe. If it gives them strength, hope, alleviates fears, whatever... I think that's great. I have my own beliefs as well that are not based on fact. I believe in an afterlife, not one with a God running the show but I don't think this is all there is. I don't know what it's like, I don't claim to know details, I just think there is something after this life. But... no God. The concept sounds silly to me. But I am fully aware that others do believe and it is not silly to them.

I don't like the closed minded bigot types. It gets old quickly and you clearly do not fit in that group. But I can think of a couple... a few... that do. ;o) We share the same level of respect for one of them. I don't like that feeling of my skin crawling so I have her blocked. LOL

My post really wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the rude one. She did not do a good job of coming up with a reason to insult atheists and I just gave her a little of her own medicine. I just turned the tables on her.

I don't care what people believe. If it gives them strength, hope, alleviates fears, whatever... I think that's great. I have my own beliefs as well that are not based on fact. I believe in an afterlife, not one with a God running the show but I don't think this is all there is. I don't know what it's like, I don't claim to know details, I just think there is something after this life. But... no God. The concept sounds silly to me. But I am fully aware that others do believe and it is not silly to them.

I don't like the closed minded bigot types. It gets old quickly and you clearly do not fit in that group. But I can think of a couple... a few... that do. ;o) We share the same level of respect for one of them. I don't like that feeling of my skin crawling so I have her blocked. LOL

Oh I know it wasn't. I think it was to the person you were referring to. And it is hard to believe that once life ends

it ends. I mean there has to be something after, right? And I know we have the same respect for each other because the concept of no God sounds silly to me :crying:

As for the resident closed minded bigot...I had to block that one or risk saying some really awful things. And boy is it peaceful.

This still makes no sense. Either God knew he was going to grant this wish (thus not really granting the wish) or it is not true that God knows all before it happens. It can't be both ways.

As I spoke with my professors in college, I will speak the same thing on here. My belief is my belief, I do not expect anyone who does not believe as I do to accept or make sense of what I am saying. It is what I believe, I live by the Word of God, if you don't, it is okay. When I read a story in the bible, it gives me hope and encouragement. It gives me some insight on how God can operate. That is what it does for me. So its okay, I don't need a clapping party behind me to say Amen. I am cool with my professors now, they understood.

Wow, that's pretty rude. The OP was quite clear about WHY she was starting this thread. She bloody well spelled it out for you. Was there a portion of the explanation that is difficult for you? Have you noticed that she's not debating anyone?

I did not say the OP was debating with anyone. The other people who have posted are the ones debating each other. I never said the OP was.

I also never said that all educated people are non-believers. Some are and some aren't. However, it has been my observation throughout my life that many highly educated people have lots of book smarts, but no common sense. That means common sense in general, not just about religion. I am educated myself, plus I am a Christian who also believes the earth is millions of years old. There are lots of Christians who believe in science and creation at the same time. There are also many scientists who believe in both as well.

As far as me giving the OP a question for her pastor, I think there have been plenty of those already posted, and I already have my own personal opinions as to what the pastor's answer would be if he were actually asked to answer them.

The Roman Catholic statement was an observation made directly from this thread. The fact is many of the atheists that have posted were raised Catholic. Their words, not mine.

"FORGIVE THEM LORD FOR THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY DO OR SAY":thumbup:

TAKE A STEP OUT ON FAITH AND YOU TO WILL SEE IT IS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE...

I also never said that all educated people are non-believers. Some are and some aren't.

You kinda did, here is what you wrote:

Why is that people with a lot of higher education turn into atheists? Is that they are so intelligent their brains have no room left for common sense and faith?

Notice, you didn't say some or a few, you wrote people with a lot of higher education turn atheist.

However, it has been my observation throughout my life that many highly educated people have lots of book smarts, but no common sense. That means common sense in general, not just about religion.

Are you under the assumption that it requires common sense to believe in the impossible such as talking snakes, virgin births, a little bitty ark that holds 30,000,000 species (x2) and food for a year, etc.? Are you really serious? I think you and I have very different thoughts on what common sense is.

As far as me giving the OP a question for her pastor, I think there have been plenty of those already posted, and I already have my own personal opinions as to what the pastor's answer would be if he were actually asked to answer them.

Trippy, so it was just a general slam to atheists. Thank you for clearing that up. I'm quite sure your God is pleased with your behaviors.

The Roman Catholic statement was an observation made directly from this thread. The fact is many of the atheists that have posted were raised Catholic. Their words, not mine.

I agree with you. While I can't say most atheists I know were raised RC, many were and I think RC does tend to produce quite a few atheists. But then, so does reading the bible.

Wow, I just read through the posts... interesting. The first point I would like to address has to do with education. I hold a Ph.D. and worked hard for it and certainly think I possess common sense.

Secondly, I was brought up Catholic. While I don't attend mass every week now, I did for the first 18 years of my life; the formative years and beyond. Ergo, whether I like it or not, I can't deny my roots in the Christian faith.

Finally, I've been thinking about the pastor questions. I decided I really don't have any questions for a Rabbi, a Pastor, a Priest, etc. Yes, they studied theology and devoted their life to their religious beliefs but I don't believe that makes them expert. When you get right down to it, they are men and women with their own prejudices.

For me, there IS something more than our life here on earth. It's not something I can prove and it's not something I feel I need to prove; to myself or anyone else. I would guess that's faith. I have found this in the Catholic church but I've also experienced it through people of different faiths. I enjoy hearing other perspectives because it challenges my beliefs and expands my understanding. So, I'll keep on living and learning and hopefully, sharing and becoming a better person along the way.

Wow, I just read through the posts... interesting. The first point I would like to address has to do with education. I hold a Ph.D. and worked hard for it and certainly think I possess common sense.

Secondly, I was brought up Catholic. While I don't attend mass every week now, I did for the first 18 years of my life; the formative years and beyond. Ergo, whether I like it or not, I can't deny my roots in the Christian faith.

Finally, I've been thinking about the pastor questions. I decided I really don't have any questions for a Rabbi, a Pastor, a Priest, etc. Yes, they studied theology and devoted their life to their religious beliefs but I don't believe that makes them expert. When you get right down to it, they are men and women with their own prejudices.

For me, there IS something more than our life here on earth. It's not something I can prove and it's not something I feel I need to prove; to myself or anyone else. I would guess that's faith. I have found this in the Catholic church but I've also experienced it through people of different faiths. I enjoy hearing other perspectives because it challenges my beliefs and expands my understanding. So, I'll keep on living and learning and hopefully, sharing and becoming a better person along the way.

This kind of attitude is why I trust you with personal issues and value you as a friend.

Wow, I just read through the posts... interesting. The first point I would like to address has to do with education. I hold a Ph.D. and worked hard for it and certainly think I possess common sense.

Secondly, I was brought up Catholic. While I don't attend mass every week now, I did for the first 18 years of my life; the formative years and beyond. Ergo, whether I like it or not, I can't deny my roots in the Christian faith.

Finally, I've been thinking about the pastor questions. I decided I really don't have any questions for a Rabbi, a Pastor, a Priest, etc. Yes, they studied theology and devoted their life to their religious beliefs but I don't believe that makes them expert. When you get right down to it, they are men and women with their own prejudices.

For me, there IS something more than our life here on earth. It's not something I can prove and it's not something I feel I need to prove; to myself or anyone else. I would guess that's faith. I have found this in the Catholic church but I've also experienced it through people of different faiths. I enjoy hearing other perspectives because it challenges my beliefs and expands my understanding. So, I'll keep on living and learning and hopefully, sharing and becoming a better person along the way.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I was raised Roman Catholic as well. I like to refer to myself as a recovering Catholic. I am a Christian and I do believe but I also believe that spirituality should not be confused by the rules and regulations of religion.

Look, I don't wanna be the one that "outs" you on here, but just the other day you were PM'ing me about how to start a new religious cult. Hey, we're friends, but I'm not going to castrate and then poison myself for you, ok?

Look, I don't wanna be the one that "outs" you on here, but just the other day you were PM'ing me about how to start a new religious cult. Hey, we're friends, but I'm not going to castrate and then poison myself for you, ok?

Drink the Koolaid I tell you. Drink it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wootsie73

I also never said that all educated people are non-believers. Some are and some aren't.

You kinda did, here is what you wrote:

Quote:

Why is that people with a lot of higher education turn into atheists? Is that they are so intelligent their brains have no room left for common sense and faith?

Sorry, that was a type o on my part. I intended to say SOME PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF HIGHER EDUCATION. My bad.

Notice, you didn't say some or a few, you wrote people with a lot of higher education turn atheist.

Quote:

However, it has been my observation throughout my life that many highly educated people have lots of book smarts, but no common sense. That means common sense in general, not just about religion.

Are you under the assumption that it requires common sense to believe in the impossible such as talking snakes, virgin births, a little bitty ark that holds 30,000,000 species (x2) and food for a year, etc.? Are you really serious? I think you and I have very different thoughts on what common sense is.

Not at all. It has been my observation throughout my life that some people who are very intelligent, by that I mean people with high IQ’s and lots of book smarts, don’t have enough common sense to come in out of the rain. That has nothing to do with their religious beliefs at all.

Quote:

As far as me giving the OP a question for her pastor, I think there have been plenty of those already posted, and I already have my own personal opinions as to what the pastor's answer would be if he were actually asked to answer them.

Trippy, so it was just a general slam to atheists. Thank you for clearing that up. I'm quite sure your God is pleased with your behaviors.

Again, I will explain myself. This statement was not a slam to atheists. My brother is a pastor, and we have spent many hours discussing these exact same topics. I’m sure most pastors would probably agree with him in general. There have been plenty of questions asked. I don’t need to add to the list.

Quote:

The Roman Catholic statement was an observation made directly from this thread. The fact is many of the atheists that have posted were raised Catholic. Their words, not mine.

I agree with you. While I can't say most atheists I know were raised RC, many were and I think RC does tend to produce quite a few atheists. But then, so does reading the bible.

One we can agree on. LOL I disagree with the part about reading the Bible, but that is my own personal choice. I don’t try to force my beliefs on anyone.

In my original post, I said God had given us all brains to think with and we are capable of making our own choices. The response to that was “kewl Beans. Prove it.” In response to that I will say, prove I’m wrong.

I'm definitely not trying to make any enemies here. But, I have as much right to my opinion as everyone else does. What you do as far as religion or lack of religion is your own business. I'm not trying to convert anyone.

Quote:Sorry, that was a type o on my part. I intended to say SOME PEOPLE WITH A LOT OF HIGHER EDUCATION. My bad.

I do that, too.

Not at all. It has been my observation throughout my life that some people who are very intelligent, by that I mean people with high IQ’s and lots of book smarts, don’t have enough common sense to come in out of the rain. That has nothing to do with their religious beliefs at all.

Well, some people have book smarts, some have common sense, some have both, some have neither. It's the nature of the beast. With that said, let's take a look at what you did write:

Why is that people with a lot of higher education turn into atheists? Is that they are so intelligent their brains have no room left for common sense and faith?

You do infer that due to intelligence they have no room left for common sense AND faith. Not common sense OR faith. You do lump them in together so a reasonable person would suggest that you meant what you wrote. ;o) Maybe people with higher intelligence and/or education view things differently. They are not okay with hoping the impossible is true.

You know, it used to be believed that Ra the Sun God would pull the sun around the world in his chariot and then science disproved that one so the people started saying... okay, a Sun God doesn't move the sun but all the other stuff we can't explain is due to a God.

In my mind, my personal opinion only, I see people believing in a God because there is much that cannot be explained, merely because we haven't studied it enough. People swear they had a near death experience and it's based on what they believe. If they believe in a Christ, Christ is who they see. If they are Jewish and they believe in God but not Christ, God is what they see. Thing is, you can duplicate near death experiences by applying a very small electrical current to a very specific part of the brain. Same thing happens, what people believe in is what they see during these near death experiences.

Usually people having a near death experience are under a tremendous physical stress. Probably because they are dying. ;o) There is a lot of electrical activity in the brain, the current thinking is that this is the basis of NDEs. But, people like to believe they really got to see God or Christ and they prefer this over reality. What is fact and what is desire is what separates theists from atheists. But again, that is my own personal opinion. To believe something that is quite literally impossible is a wish, not a fact. We *want* to believe there is a reason for all this, we *want* to believe there is something more out there. I do it too, I want to believe there is something that exists after death. I'd love to see my family, friends, my dogs, everyone someday. But I do not believe this requires a God running the show.

Today we have employers telling us how to behave, what to say, what not to say 8 hours a day. We have political type folks telling us how to behave in society, who to give money, setting limits. We have society also setting limits. We have religious leaders telling us what to believe and how to behave. In reality I think some folks just can't fathom thinking they are on their own to behave in an afterlife. So a God MUST run the show.

Again, I will explain myself. This statement was not a slam to atheists. My brother is a pastor, and we have spent many hours discussing these exact same topics. I’m sure most pastors would probably agree with him in general. There have been plenty of questions asked. I don’t need to add to the list.

Again... your words:

So, here is my question for your pastor, and I hope someone does ask him this. Why is that people with a lot of higher education turn into atheists? Is that they are so intelligent their brains have no room left for common sense and faith?

So do you have a topic for the pastor or not? Either it was a topic for the pastor, a slam to atheists, or both. I'm fairly confident it was a slam to atheists. The more you explain the more clear this becomes.

In my original post, I said God had given us all brains to think with and we are capable of making our own choices. The response to that was “kewl Beans. Prove it.” In response to that I will say, prove I’m wrong.

No, you are manipulating and I won't let you get by with it. THIS is what I suggested you prove, this is the part of the quote you failed to post:

The original question was very good. I have to say though, many of the responses have been very debatable and on the fringe of ridiculous. God does have a plan for us all, but he also gave us a brain to think with. Therefore, we are able to make our own choices. When God created each of us, he had a plan for us. It is us that change the plan by the choices we make as individuals.

See what happens when you paraphrase? You leave out all the good stuff and completely and totally change what I was responding to when I suggested you prove it.

That's not the way it works. You made the claim, you defend your own claim. That's how adults discuss things. Otherwise I could tell you that there are purple flying monkeys out to take over the world, if you don't believe me prove me wrong. See how silly that is?

When an adult makes a claim it is up to the person making the claim to prove their own case, not make wild claims and expect everyone else to prove them right. Now com'on, this is Middle School level debate rules here. Not post graduate debate.

I'm definitely not trying to make any enemies here. But, I have as much right to my opinion as everyone else does. What you do as far as religion or lack of religion is your own business. I'm not trying to convert anyone.

Straw man. Nobody claimed otherwise.

Edited May 15, 200917 yr by WASaBubbleButt