Miss California and Gay marriage

[plain 12]

The word bigot is defined as a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc. And they are also considered narrow-minded and prejudiced.

It seems that the word "bigot" has been appropriately used in this thread.

But that assumes that EVERYbody who doesn't support gay marriage holds to that opinion blindly and intolerantly. Perhaps some people have thought out the issue well. Perhaps some follow the leadings of their church. I'm just saying....there are potentially many reasons a person could be against gay marriage. Sure, some that are against it are bigots, but not ALL.

plain: "Regardless of which side of the issue you're on, I think it's beyond stupid to bash somebody on their opinion when it's asked of them."

But isn't that exactly what you do to me nearly every time I try to answer one of your questions?

Not really. I merely challenge you when you present your opinions as facts. Opinions are fine, but in a debate ya GOTTA be able to back up your position.

Edited April 30, 2009 by plain

[babygrl1234 6]

Maybe PG was born gay and now she is all bitter from choosing to be straight.

Or just born bitter.

[green 6]

I am reminded about how that vicious anti-Semite, Mel Gibson, so easily turned away from his Catholic wedding vows when in sight of fresher prey.

[green 6]

The mate and I just got married this week-end, by a Rabbi who performs same-sex marriages. He has been looking after me all through my cancer which is palliative; he has certainly paid his dues and we have been together for over 25 years now - put this down to my fear of committment!

[babygrl1234 6]

The mate and I just got married this week-end, by a Rabbi who performs same-sex marriages. He has been looking after me all through my cancer which is palliative; he has certainly paid his dues and we have been together for over 25 years now - put this down to my fear of committment!

And congrats to you Green!!!!!!!

[BethFromVA 5]

Maybe PG was born gay and now she is all bitter from choosing to be straight.

Or just born bitter.

Omg! :thumbup:

[BethFromVA 5]

Ditto, Green, CONGRATS!!!!!

[BJean 16]

Beth: "I'm saying it works both ways."

BJean: Well, duh.

What makes you and plain assume that I have taken the position of supporting gay marriage? Something I may have said previously?

Plain, it really didn't or doesn't matter what I typed on my little machine here, you have argued against it. I absolutely do not have to post links or quote anybody or anything to support my viewpoints - I am the authority on all things and that should be enough proof for you when I make a statement. My friends, family and acquaintances know me as "The Source" Eat your heart out.*

GREEN! Great to see you in print here. How's that marriage working out for you? Patty and I are glad that you finally get to consumate the relatiionship. Heh, heh, heh.

*I've decided NONE of what I say or what you say makes one whit of difference anyway. We're all getting the swine flu today. Global warming, gay marriage, abortion and gun control are nothing we have to worry about anymore. Whee!

[DownInSocal 12]

I'm saying it works both ways. Those who are hating on those who stick to their convictions, regardless of which side of the aisle they are on, can be called bigots by your very definition: "choosing to hold blindly and intolerantly to their view."

Those on the pro-gay side that choose to lob names and insults to the other side can also be labeled bigots and haters against the popular norm. :thumbup:

At one time segregation was considered the "popular norm" also. That didn't make it right.

[luluc 6]

Not really. I merely challenge you when you present your opinions as facts. Opinions are fine, but in a debate ya GOTTA be able to back up your position.

but plain, just a day or so ago you posted the following on this thread:

I would vote against gay marriage, if it came up for a vote in my state, even though I have numerous gay friends. I can't even really articulate a good reason that I feel that way....but I do. I wouldn't describe myself as homophobic.

i didn't see anyone challenge you for not being able to articulate why you felt the way you do nor ask you to provide statistical/rhetoric data backing it up.

so if some here feel that isolating a segment of society from having shared rights ... deem those bigots, well they're entitled.

......green congrats!!!!!

[BJean 16]

I read your earlier posts on this thread, luluc - good job!

It is difficult to understand people who claim to be patriotic, Constitution-loving Americans, but they condone or endorse abridging one segment of the population's fundamental Constitutional rights. As far as the government is concerned, it has absolutely nothing to do with religion. The government is not in the business of conducting religious ceremonies to legalize and recognize a couple as married under the laws of the land.

[plain 12]

The mate and I just got married this week-end, by a Rabbi who performs same-sex marriages. He has been looking after me all through my cancer which is palliative; he has certainly paid his dues and we have been together for over 25 years now - put this down to my fear of committment!

Now where are you crazy kids going for the honeymoon?

but plain, just a day or so ago you posted the following on this thread:

I would vote against gay marriage, if it came up for a vote in my state, even though I have numerous gay friends. I can't even really articulate a good reason that I feel that way....but I do. I wouldn't describe myself as homophobic.

i didn't see anyone challenge you for not being able to articulate why you felt the way you do nor ask you to provide statistical/rhetoric data backing it up.

so if some here feel that isolating a segment of society from having shared rights ... deem those bigots, well they're entitled.

The only difference is that I was clearly stating my own personal opinion....and if anybody disagreed with me, I could totally understand that. Notice I didn't call anybody that didn't agree a "bigot" or "small-minded" or made another personal attack.

I guess my bigger point in the gay marriage thread is that calling people against gay marriage "bigots" is simplistic. It's ok to do that on a case-by-case basis....if you know or can logically assume that the person is a bigot (ie, the person is a member of a hate group, uses hate language, or argues ANYthing that has a basis in eugenics). Otherwise, I think you're reducing a complicated issue down to an afterthought.

It is difficult to understand people who claim to be patriotic, Constitution-loving Americans, but they condone or endorse abridging one segment of the population's fundamental Constitutional rights.

Like the right to bear arms?

[luluc 6]

The only difference is that I was clearly stating my own personal opinion....and if anybody disagreed with me, I could totally understand that. Notice I didn't call anybody that didn't agree a "bigot" or "small-minded" or made another personal attack.

I guess my bigger point in the gay marriage thread is that calling people against gay marriage "bigots" is simplistic. It's ok to do that on a case-by-case basis....if you know or can logically assume that the person is a bigot (ie, the person is a member of a hate group, uses hate language, or argues ANYthing that has a basis in eugenics). Otherwise, I think you're reducing a complicated issue down to an afterthought.

fair.

however when you leave that "unable to articulate" shoe on the floor - you leave room for others to fill in the blank. personally i don't think your a bigot .

how strange (think jachut touched on it) - that many state "but i got gay friends" ; just don't want them to get married (civil union).....very similiar to the "i have black/jew/muslim - fill i the blank" friends - just don't want them over for diner....it's got a stinky smell to it.

re - marriage: for those against gay marriage & the use of that term are you fine to leave it to the individuals to make that a "religious" ceremony.....or are you not satisfied to allow civil unions - but must fight that right of same sex individuals? cause that's what ms CA fancy pants is out doing right now - going to fight to preserve the sanctity of marriage....where is my barf smiley...SUSAN??

[gamyj 0]

wow I guess i've been away from this thread for a while. I most certainly would have defended myself against PG. First I have to say that I beleive whole heartedly that people are born gay. I do not beleive that anyone would choose to be treated as a sub species... (which sadly I think still happens in this world) I think her interpretation of the bible is way off. I think people forget that many can read the same passage in the bible and walk away with many different ideas as far as the meaning. I am Jewish and in my upbringing we were taught to love, to be the best person u can, to respect others and be tolerent. I was never told that G*D would love me less if I were gay. I think there are many people of the cloth that do not view homosexuality as a sin, nor do they interpret the bible as saying so. I think PG and many others interpret the bible to suit their bigitry and hate and intollerance.

I love my children... and if as they grow they realize that they are gay, I will love them, and support them in any way I can.

hate is ugly as we can all see and testify to.

amy

[Nanook 2]

I agree with what you've said gamyj,

And being raised a Catholic and going to 12 years of Catholic schooling we did read the Bible and theology was a class taught like math. But what we learned was to treat others as you would like to be treated. We never were force fed passages from the Bible and only given one interpretation. It was discussed. Now I'm not saying the Catholic Church is perfect and not without "sin" but it's difficult for me to understand how these other churches are spewing out this hate towards homosexuals and teaching people that they aren't born that way that it's basically a chosen lifestyle. Are people really that gullible???