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With all the bickering about Christmas and the reason for the season...

Stolen from Rob on OH, written by Mike Nichols, no link available:

Midwinter's Eve: YULE

Their Christian friends are often quite surprised at how enthusiastically Pagans Celebrate the ‘Christmas’ season. Even though they prefer to use the word “Yule”, and their celebrations may peak a few days before the twenty-fifth, they nonetheless follow many of the traditional customs of the season: decorated trees, caroling, presents, Yule logs, and mistletoe. They might even go so far as putting up a ‘Nativity set’, though for them the three central characters are likely to be interpreted as Mother Nature, Father Time, and the baby Sun God. None of this will come as a surprise to anyone who knows the true history of the holiday, of course.

In fact, if truth be known, the holiday of Christmas has always been more Pagan than Christian, with its associations of Nordic divination, Celtic fertility rites, and Roman Mithraism. That is why John Calvin and other leaders of the Reformation abhorred it, why the Puritans refused to acknowledge it, much less celebrate it (to them, no day of the year could be more holy than the Sabbath), and why it was even made illegal in Boston! The holiday was already too closely associated with the birth of older Pagan Gods and heroes. And many of them (like Oedipus, Theseus, Hercules, Perseus, Jason, Dionysus, Apollo, Mithra, Horus, and even Arthur) possessed a narrative of birth, death, and resurrection that was uncomfortably close to that of Jesus. And to make matters worse, many of them predated the Christian Savior.

Ultimately, of course, the holiday is rooted deeply in the cycle of the year. It is the winter solstice that is being celebrated, seedtime of the year, the longest night and shortest day. It is the birthday of the new Sun King, the Son of God—by whatever name you choose to call him. On this darkest of nights, the Goddess becomes the Great Mother and once again gives birth. And it makes perfect poetic sense that on the longest night of the winter, “the dark night of their souls”, there springs the new spark of hope, the Sacred Fire, the Light of the World, the Coel Coeth.

That is why Pagans have as much right to claim this holiday as Christians. Perhaps even more so, since the Christians were rather late in laying claim to it, and tried more than once to reject it. There had been a tradition in the West that Mary bore the child Jesus on the twenty-fifth day, but no one could seem to decide on the month. Finally, in 320 C.E., the Catholic fathers in Rome decided to make it December, in an effort to co-opt the Mithraic celebration of the Romans, the Yule festival of the Saxons, and the midwinter revels of the Celts.

There was never much pretense that the date they finally chose was historically accurate. Shepherds just don’t “tend their flocks by night” in the high pastures in the dead of winter! But if one wishes to use the New Testament as historical evidence, this reference may point to sometime in the spring as the time of Jesus’ birth. This is because the lambing season occurs in the spring and that is the only time when shepherds are likely to “watch their flocks by night”—to make sure the lambing goes well. Knowing this, the Eastern half of the church continued to reject December 25, preferring a “movable date” fixed by their astrologers according to the moon.

Thus, despite its shaky start (for over three centuries, no one knew when Jesus was supposed to have been born!), December 25 finally began to catch on. By 529, it was a civic holiday, and all work or public business (except that of cooks, bakers, or any that contributed to the delight of the holiday) was prohibited by the Emperor Justinian. In 563, the Council of Braga forbade fasting on Christmas Day, and four years later the Council of Tours proclaimed the twelve days from December 25 to Epiphany as a sacred, festive season. This last point is perhaps the hardest to impress upon the modern reader, who is lucky to get a single day off work. Christmas, in the Middle Ages, was not a single day, but rather a period of twelve days, from December 25 to January 6. The Twelve Days of Christmas, in fact. It is certainly lamentable that the modern world has abandoned this approach, along with the popular Twelfth Night celebrations.

Of course, the Christian version of the holiday spread to many countries no faster than Christianity itself, which means that “Christmas” wasn’t celebrated in Ireland until the late fifth century; in England, Switzerland, and Austria until the seventh; in Germany until the eighth; and in the Slavic lands until the ninth and tenth. Not that these countries lacked their own midwinter celebrations. Long before the world had heard of Jesus, Pagans had been observing the season by bringing in the Yule log, wishing on it, and lighting it from the remains of last year’s log. Riddles were posed and answered, magic and rituals were practiced, wild boars were sacrificed and consumed along with large quantities of liquor, corn dollies were carried from house to house while caroling, fertility rites were practiced (girls standing under a sprig of mistletoe were subject to a bit more than a kiss), and divinations were cast for the coming spring. Many of these Pagan customs, in an appropriately watered-down form, have entered the mainstream of Christian celebration, though most celebrants do not realize (or do not mention it, if they do) their origins.

For modern Witches, Yule (from the Anglo-Saxon yula, meaning “wheel” of the year) is usually celebrated on the actual winter solstice, which may vary by a few days, though it usually occurs on or around December 21. It is a Lesser Sabbat or Low Holiday in the modern Pagan calendar, one of the four quarter days of the year, but a very important one. Pagan customs are still enthusiastically followed. Once, the Yule log had been the center of the celebration. It was lighted on the eve of the solstice (it should light on the first try) and must be kept burning for twelve hours, for good luck. It should be made of ash. Later, the Yule log was replaced by the Yule tree but, instead of burning it, lighted candles were placed on it. In Christianity, Protestants might claim that Martin Luther invented the custom, and Catholics might grant St. Boniface the honor, but the custom can demonstrably be traced back through the Roman Saturnalia all the way to ancient Egypt. Needless to say, such a tree should be cut down rather than purchased, and should be disposed of by burning, the proper way to dispatch any sacred object.

Along with the evergreen, the holly and the ivy and the mistletoe were important plants of the season, all symbolizing fertility and everlasting life. Mistletoe was especially venerated by the Celtic Druids, who cut it with a golden sickle on the sixth night of the moon, and believed it to be an aphrodisiac. (Magically—not medicinally! It’s highly toxic!) But aphrodisiacs must have been the smallest part of the Yuletide menu in ancient times, as contemporary reports indicate that the tables fairly creaked under the strain of every type of good food. And drink! The most popular of which was the “wassail cup”, deriving its name from the Anglo-Saxon term waes hael (be whole or hale).

Medieval Christmas folklore seems endless: that animals will all kneel down as the Holy Night arrives, that bees hum the 100th psalm on Christmas Eve, that a windy Christmas will bring good luck, that a person born on Christmas Day can see the Little People, that a cricket on the hearth brings good luck, that if one opens all the doors of the house at midnight all the evil spirits will depart, that you will have one lucky month for each Christmas pudding you sample, that the tree must be taken down by Twelfth Night or bad luck is sure to follow, that “if Christmas on a Sunday be, a windy winter they shall see”, that “hours of sun on Christmas Day, so many frosts in the month of May”, that one can use the Twelve Days of Christmas to predict the weather for each of the twelve months of the coming year, and so on.

Remembering that most Christmas customs are ultimately based upon older Pagan customs, it only remains for modern Pagans to reclaim their lost traditions. In doing so, they can share many common customs with their Christian friends, albeit with a slightly different interpretation. And, thus, they all share in the beauty of this most magical of seasons, when the Mother Goddess once again gives birth to the baby Sun God and sets the wheel in motion again. To conclude with a long-overdue paraphrase, “Goddess bless them, every one!

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Now, do you seriously think that pagan folks were in the habit of chucking their children into fires on a regular basis in order to satisfy some kind of Supreme Being, be He alive or dead? Uh, I think not. Use your tiny brain. People tend to rebel when asked on a routine basis to sacrifice their children. One or two kiddies might be toasted for the common good but no tribe will accept sacrificing an entire kindergarten's worth of kids. Has it not occurred to you that some of the early missionaries may have invented some pretty lurid stories in order to attract folks to their brand new religion? There were no governmental laws in place at that time about truth in advertising, you know.

Green, my dear, you certainly have a way of cutting through the BS and getting to the point!:)That is just one of the reasons we love you!

Who are you talking about? The OP? Or Work?

I actually was referring to both of them. One who started the post is known well on OH for her stories and lies. The other gave out some very bad info on here about Pagans. It is simply my opinion that the pot continually gets stirred by quite a few of you, and you aren't innocent yourself Nancy.:guess

The only intelligent person here that has the facts right is Green bless her heart.

I actually was referring to both of them. One who started the post is known well on OH for her stories and lies. The other gave out some very bad info on here about Pagans. It is simply my opinion that the pot continually gets stirred by quite a few of you, and you aren't innocent yourself Nancy.:guess

The only intelligent person here that has the facts right is Green bless her heart.

Ouch!!!!! Do I know you????

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I actually was referring to both of them. One who started the post is known well on OH for her stories and lies. The other gave out some very bad info on here about Pagans. It is simply my opinion that the pot continually gets stirred by quite a few of you, and you aren't innocent yourself Nancy.:guess

The only intelligent person here that has the facts right is Green bless her heart.

HA.... I guess I hang with good company then.

Do tell, what is your ID on OH?

Read a nice little tidbit this morning where the two factions who control the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem got into a fist-fight yesterday, because somebody from the Greek Orthodox faction accidently stepped into the Armenian section. Nice. There's nothing that says we love Jesus like fighting inside the church built in his name, at his birthplace. No wonder I have no use for organized religion.

HA.... I guess I hang with good company then.

Do tell, what is your ID on OH?

Giving away my OH identity would be dastardly. I could no longer stay in silent mode and merely keep an eye on the travesties that go on there at OH and watch the crap unfold. I prefer to stay quietly in the background and watch you WASa and the rest of them bury yourselves deeper in the crap that goes around there, most of which is started by the 3 of you. I see now the crap from OH has been brought to this board and your dreaded enemies have now become your servants WASa. How very sad they aren't all onto you. I see you posting about a phony friend that weighs 400 lbs. and know your story holds no Water. You act like you run this forum but you go to OH and pretend like you are dumb. You and I both know a band doesn't erode in 13 days don't we? We also know the "friend" is a figment of your overactive imagination. How many are truly fooled by your Quest for attention? Not I for sure. I laugh at your antics. I laugh at the Piece of Work and good old Nancy to, and know why so many people leave OH. I know about the board where the vets hang out, because I to hang out there. That would be the Prince Edward Board am I right? I am one of you and you don't even know it and I like it that way.

I also had a friend who posted on the VSG board who went to Dr. Acheves and 3 of her family, including her, woke up during surgery, and you want to take an imaginary friend there to this dr. whose anesthesiologist sucks big time. You all should be ashamed of yourselves for the games you play amongst each other. Each and every one of you lie and think everyone believes you. It is nice to see you are coming to this board and leaving OH alone.

Blessings to you all this CHRISTmas season, because JESUS is truly the reason for the season.:)

From my experience, Wasa tends to be a straight forward person. She may be a bit blunt, (sorry Wasa, you know we love ya) but she has lots of medical knowledge and is always willing to give sound advice. As for the others, I have had no real interaction with them. Wasa has always been kind to me.

This is just my opinion, but I had to speak up for her in this instance.

From my experience, Wasa tends to be a straight forward person. She may be a bit blunt, (sorry Wasa, you know we love ya) but she has lots of medical knowledge and is always willing to give sound advice. As for the others, I have had no real interaction with them. Wasa has always been kind to me.

This is just my opinion, but I had to speak up for her in this instance.

Until the other day I would have agreed with the knowledge of WASa, but no longer. She made an insane post on OH asking for medical help about a friend of hers that apparently slipped (weighing 400 lb) and was told she had a chance of "erosion". Anyone with medical knowledge knows you cannot erode in 13 days. This being said it blow the medical knowledge theory right out of the Water. I'm sorry, but I do admire you sticking up for someone. Blunt is hardly a word I would describe WASa as. I would say she is an attention seeker who constantly stirs the pot under aliases on OH, even though everyone knows who she is. Anyone with medical knowledge would not knowlingly have posted a phony post about a 400 lb. friend whose surgeon can not talk to the dr. caring for her. Nothing about it is right or makes sense and rescuing her to Mexico is a travesty of justice considering what I have read about Acheves and his anesthesiologist. I saw WASa does protest to much about Acheves for sure.

Thank you for being a good friend to her though. It is admirable if you don't know all the circumstances. Medical experience would have prevented her from asking the stupid questions she did about her friend of a bunch of people without medical knowledge.

midnightblue:confused:

BTW Chelle, piece of work and Nancy are simply here because the excitement of causing trouble on OH is at an all time low. They have run everyone off of there already that used to be on that forum and now they come here seeking controversary (as friends no less). They are friends to no one and be on guard please. This forum was nice until they got here and the shit will soon hit the fan with them here. It has already started with the piece of work's theory on Pagans. I see she has shut her mouth on the subject, but it won't last. I know this tribe and it never ends. If you are smart you will rid this forum of the maliciousness that has arrived in the form of friends. I choose to call them on their errors, but I have no problems with the majority of people on Lapbandtalk who keep it real.

Blessings

BTW Chelle, piece of work and Nancy are simply here because the excitement of causing trouble on OH is at an all time low. They have run everyone off of there already that used to be on that forum and now they come here seeking controversary (as friends no less). They are friends to no one and be on guard please. This forum was nice until they got here and the shit will soon hit the fan with them here. It has already started with the piece of work's theory on Pagans. I see she has shut her mouth on the subject, but it won't last. I know this tribe and it never ends. If you are smart you will rid this forum of the maliciousness that has arrived in the form of friends. I choose to call them on their errors, but I have no problems with the majority of people on Lapbandtalk who keep it real.

Blessings

Isn't there some Senior Center somewhere that your time would be better spent?

I have belonged to this forum for over 6 mo. and made just a few posts in all that time, so apparently I do spend my time elsewhere. It doesn't appear that you do though. I do help out at Senior Centers, Salvation Army and Battered Women Shelters thank you. I appreciate your concern immensely, but I think the little time I spend here is well worth it. Now, what is it you do with all your time now besides cause trouble.

The one person that could answer WASa's post on OH about her friend is the one person with medical experience that will never answer her, so therefore I ask why did she question anyone there with her vast array of knowledge.

Thank you for your concern about me, but I'm not at all active on the forum and just happen to have a few days off work. I so appreciate your concern though.

Have a wonderful day.

Read a nice little tidbit this morning where the two factions who control the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem got into a fist-fight yesterday, because somebody from the Greek Orthodox faction accidently stepped into the Armenian section. Nice. There's nothing that says we love Jesus like fighting inside the church built in his name, at his birthplace. No wonder I have no use for organized religion.

:faint::heh:

Sorry to be dumb, but I didn't understand anything that was said. I personally believe in the reason for Christmas and I am a christian. Maybe I just drifted in the wrong room.

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