I have decided to start this thread and write this post because I have been feeling strongly about a couple of things and I feel a need to let it out.

First let me start by saying that I have been spending less time on LBT lately not because I am disapointed with the direction it is going but rather because as a male I find it to be dominated by the fairer sex and this leads me to my first issue.

I am frustrated with the rules of engangement here at LBT, I think they are Bul***it. The rules here are rules that only females could come up with and here is what I mean. It's okay to go on and on about a person as long as you preface your remarks with statements like "There is a person on LBT who I really like who has been attacked by others who I don't want to name" Everybody knows who the people are that are being discussed but as long as you don't say their names it's fine. This reminds of my early teen years when the girls in my class would play that game the sole purpose was to define who could be freinds with who.

I have no problem if someone thinks I'm an ass and tells me so. It's simple if I think your an ass***le then I will say "I think your an Ass**le" you can say back go F**k yourself your the ass**le.

Instead I read " This person is a really really great person who just wants peace on earth and these evil people (I won't say their names because I am a good person too just like you know who) are being terrible in how they attack her every word. I say bull**it, If you have something to say about someone have the guts to say it and the courage to name names.

The next issue I want to rant about is the one I am most passionatte about. There has been a lot of discussion about people making other people feel bad about their weight loss. As people who have decided to use the band as a weight loss tool we have leveled the playing field for the first time. This has made it possible for us for the first time to win our long battles with obesity. This does not however negate years and years of battling obesity and the scars that come with those battles. In my previouse life I was always in one of three states and these were 1. Losing weight 2. Gaining back weight 3. Obese ashamed that I had gained all the weight and more back and waiting for the next scheme to make me skinny again but had given up for now.

Depending on what state I was in my reaction to the weight loss of others was drastically impacted. When I was losing I was eager to hear and share in the weight loss advice of others. When I was in state 2 I was happy for those individuals who were in state 1 but sometimes I just wanted to tell them to shut up, I was afraid to because that was the first sign that I had moved to state 3 and was not going back to state 1. State 3 meant that I knew that everyone who was losing weight was a fool to believe that they wouldn't eventualy gain all their weight back and more. My only hope is that they would soon shut the F**k up and realize that they were doomed for failure.

The band has leveled the playing field but it hasn't removed those old biasis for any of us. What this means is when someone starts to give advice about weight loss often our first response is to want to say oh shut the f**k up soon you will be fat again. Our ability to suceed has been greatly increased but our moods still, at times, make us feel guilt when we hear about the sucess of others. (deep breath) so here is my point, there have been a number of threads from a number of people about other members of LBT not being completely supportive of the wins of others. My point is, it's okay, we should understand better than anyone what motivates this behavior. Why should it matter any way, I couldn't give a flying F**k if anyone disaproves of my weight loss. I am a few days away from my 2 year bandiversary and I have lost just over 120 pounds. I work out 5 days a week and I eat too fuc**ng much ice cream. But I am happy and certain that I will lose another 30-40 pounds by this time next year. If I only lose 20 no big deal I will lose the rest the next year. If anyone disagrees go F**k yourself!!!

Merry Christmas Mother F**kers :)

Childre, children...stop your bickering or Santa will fly right over your house without stopping!

It does seem to me that lately we have been drifting into some very small brawls. Our best brawls on R&R have traditionally been those which are idea-driven. Remember, boys and girls, the tension-filled days and nights of Ron Cusano? TommyO has always had a lot of value to contribute in that debate and he has been a very valuable and entertaining contributor to many other idea-driven discussions/debates/brawls.

It is true that recently we have been drifting into the arena of personality-driven brawls, these are what I personally call small brawls, and I figure that we likely will all be better off as an on-line community once we elect to opt out of this loop. As to why and how we found ourselves here, well, I dunno. Perhaps this is due to this being a traditionally thin-skinned time of the year, and when you add in a few hostile on-line comments made by some of the angrier, the more bitter members of our community, hostilities quickly arise and escalate.

Certainly the current level of anger should never have happened. Some of the most valuable members of this site have now found themselves caught up in these useless and ugly brawls - they've swallowed the toxic bait, eh. Of course this is a tragedy, is it not? All of these really great and very, very knowledgable LBTers should be on this site in their roles as experienced old-timers, old-timers who are both able and willing to share their knowledge with the newbies. They should not allow themselves to be trapped in these ugly, oxygen-sapping squabbles.

I admit to being a fan of TommyO: I have always found what he has had to say to be of great interest and I figure that his opinion has as much value as mine when it comes to this biz of weighting our possible value - that is to say that of Green and that of TommyO - on the on-line community.

Although I consider myself to be in the way of being personal internet friends with some of the participants - and this is something which means a great deal to me - I must admit that I avoid spending time on those threads where LBT folks get into these personal on-line brawls. The truth is that I find most of this material kinda boring and kinda pointless and very sad.

I would urge all participants to walk away from these dumbass brawls. Stooping in order to engage is ill-advised. None of us who are old timers need to worry about our street cred. Why get yerselves trapped in these idiotic pissing contests? Christmas is coming up and it is important for us to save our spleen and our piss for those who really are dangerous.......:heh:

Let us say no, nada, non, nyet, et pas de chance to just about everyone. We should and must able to separate and ignore the rage which propels a personal attack from that which seeks to engage in an idea-driven debate.

As an example I will present my on-going debate against Gadget in the Right To Chose thread. Though Gadget and I continue to remain at loggerheads on the abortion debate, and we have indeed been brawling over this for many months now, we continue to maintain a real respect for each other. Truth is that Gadget and myself are two individuals who come close to occupying the exact opposite zones of the belief band and yet we have always been able to display through our only personal connection - that of LBT - a very pleasant connection and a respectful acknowledgement of our profound differences.

And so, and oh, and ugh, and this is where I would like to suggest that it is time for all this bitcherie to stop. Green sez, just say no to immature and, well, twat-like acts. You'all know that we can walk away from this stuff. Calm down, avoid the poo pouperie, ya know it is only going to get worse, eh. Fer after all, Christmas and the whole array of disfunctional family members are coming. Bwhahahahaha:heh: It is gonna get a lot worse.

:faint::faint::faint::faint::faint:

With that it's time to take my leave. I hope everyone has a great Christmas and I look forward to chating again sometime in 2008.

TommyO

NO NO NO!! Don't go now - just when I was getting out the popcorn and settling in for a rousing battle between The Duelist and the Cyber Sisters!!

*ding ding ding* And there goes the bell, folks, time for Round 4 of:

The Duellist

VS

The Cyber Sisters!!!

:ranger:

I have some personal drama going on in my life right now, and I gotta say: This stuff is like Jerry Springer. I hate it, but I'm drawn to it, if only to be able to take a break from my own drama.

I do avoid the "I hate Newbies" thread, because it makes me feel like a moron. I am not a moron and having a large group of people discuss the questions and concerns that I have as if I (or others) were stupid beyond compare isn't fun. Made me feel like shit for about 5 minutes, then I clicked on New Posts and moved on.

Do I have a point? - The popcorn my daughter just popped is distracting me! - Yes, I have a point and it is: I love this thread, but I'm slightly confused. Mainly because it's like a soap opera that I can't follow.

I get that Wasa's a bad guy in this...but I'm not sure why. And, I don't know the pussy posse players. I guess I don't have to, since I'm just a dumb newbie, but it makes the show a little confusing for me.

Am I the only dumb newbie not following?

With that it's time to take my leave. TommyO

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

....This stuff is like Jerry Springer. I hate it, but I'm drawn to it.... I love this thread, but I'm slightly confused. Mainly because it's like a soap opera that I can't follow.

I get that Wasa's a bad guy in this...but I'm not sure why. And, I don't know the pussy posse players. I guess I don't have to, since I'm just a dumb newbie, but it makes the show a little confusing for me.

Am I the only dumb newbie not following?

No, I'm not following this either. The "soap opera" comment is very apropos. Of course, I rarely venture into the R&R section because I end up wasting a lot of time there and always leave feeling disappointed in the human race. I was hoping this thread would prompt a discussion of the differences in the way men and women are socialized and the differences in the ways they communicate, but it's definitely not going that way.

With that it's time to take my leave. I hope everyone has a great Christmas and I look forward to chating again sometime in 2008.

TommyO

We will miss you TommyO! Hurry back!

Yup, TommyO is cool. He is anutha Canuck, eh. Just like da mean Green.

You canucks are pretty cool!

It does seem to me that lately we have been drifting into some very small brawls. Our best brawls on R&R have traditionally been those which are idea-driven. Remember, boys and girls, the tension-filled days and nights of Ron Cusano? TommyO has always had a lot of value to contribute in that debate and he has been a very valuable and entertaining contributor to many other idea-driven discussions/debates/brawls.

It is true that recently we have been drifting into the arena of personality-driven brawls, these are what I personally call small brawls, and I figure that we likely will all be better off as an on-line community once we elect to opt out of this loop. As to why and how we found ourselves here, well, I dunno. Perhaps this is due to this being a traditionally thin-skinned time of the year, and when you add in a few hostile on-line comments made by some of the angrier, the more bitter members of our community, hostilities quickly arise and escalate.

Certainly the current level of anger should never have happened. Some of the most valuable members of this site have now found themselves caught up in these useless and ugly brawls - they've swallowed the toxic bait, eh. Of course this is a tragedy, is it not? All of these really great and very, very knowledgable LBTers should be on this site in their roles as experienced old-timers, old-timers who are both able and willing to share their knowledge with the newbies. They should not allow themselves to be trapped in these ugly, oxygen-sapping squabbles.

I admit to being a fan of TommyO: I have always found what he has had to say to be of great interest and I figure that his opinion has as much value as mine when it comes to this biz of weighting our possible value - that is to say that of Green and that of TommyO - on the on-line community.

Although I consider myself to be in the way of being personal internet friends with some of the participants - and this is something which means a great deal to me - I must admit that I avoid spending time on those threads where LBT folks get into these personal on-line brawls. The truth is that I find most of this material kinda boring and kinda pointless and very sad.

I would urge all participants to walk away from these dumbass brawls. Stooping in order to engage is ill-advised. None of us who are old timers need to worry about our street cred. Why get yerselves trapped in these idiotic pissing contests? Christmas is coming up and it is important for us to save our spleen and our piss for those who really are dangerous.......:heh:

Let us say no, nada, non, nyet, et pas de chance to just about everyone. :cheated: We should and must able to separate and ignore the rage which propels a personal attack from that which seeks to engage in an idea-driven debate.

As an example I will present my on-going debate against Gadget in the Right To Chose thread. Though Gadget and I continue to remain at loggerheads on the abortion debate, and we have indeed been brawling over this for many months now, we continue to maintain a real respect for each other. Truth is that Gadget and myself are two individuals who come close to occupying the exact opposite zones of the belief band and yet we have always been able to display through our only personal connection - that of LBT - a very pleasant connection and a respectful acknowledgement of our profound differences.

And so, and oh, and ugh, and this is where I would like to suggest that it is time for all this bitcherie to stop. Green sez, just say no to immature and, well, twat-like acts. You'all know that we can walk away from this stuff. Calm down, avoid the poo pouperie, ya know it is only going to get worse, eh. Fer after all, Christmas and the whole array of disfunctional family members are coming. Bwhahahahaha:heh: It is gonna get a lot worse.

:faint::faint::faint::faint::faint:

Green - well said.

I have been following this post since joining LBT, but don't participate - being a newbie I feel that my opinions wouldn't be seen as being valid, but also not wanting to be drawn into a shitfight.

I have written now because I feel many people on this thread could benefit from your post - I just hope they all sit up and take notice.

Happy new year to you all.

Amy

I will say it again.....Green you rock!

Aw, y'all are going to spoil me with your kind words.... Thanks, eh.

I get that Wasa's a bad guy in this...but I'm not sure why. And, I don't know the pussy posse players. I guess I don't have to, since I'm just a dumb newbie, but it makes the show a little confusing for me.

Well I have officially had my band for a year now. Don't know what that means. I don't feel like an oldie, that's for sure. And I certainly have no

idea who the pussy posse is. I am not sure why WasA is a bad guy or

considered to be a bad guy. I think she is very knowledgeable.

Green - I salute you!! Well said hon :scales:

I actually quite like all the people mentioned on all sides of the sh*t slinging, so I am going to duck out of this one, can see all points of view,so I will respectfully decline the chance to get drawn in

Happy New Year everyone and may the weightloss continue!!

Nina x

I Think I Am In Love.