Big Ol' Hairy Religion vs. Athiest Debate

gadgetlady · December 11, 2007

This is a snippet (there is about 10 times more of these) No ambiguity huh?
Credit to: Bible Inconsistencies: Bible Contradictions?

Which says as a preface to all of the things you cut and pasted,

IMPORTANT: Please keep in mind that by "inconsistencies" I do not necessarily mean "contradictions." Even though accepted and common definitions of the two terms often make them synonymous, I make a subtle distinction which is reflected in at least some of the accepted definitions. What I have in mind is that an inconsistency involves a lack of harmonious uniformity, regularity, steady continuity, or agreement among the verses cited. Thus, whereas a contradiction is necessarily an inconsistency, an inconsistency is not necessarily a contradiction. But certainly some of the listed biblical inconsistencies could be taken as biblical contradictions.

:faint:

There are answers to each and every one of these concerns. I can cut and paste from a website like the best of them. Would you like me to?

gadgetlady · December 11, 2007

I understand what you mean about Catholicism.

Ahhh, would that I had time right now. I have a lot of problems with Catholicism based on my experiences and knowledge of the religion. Suffice it to say all my 3.3 years at a Catholic university (I graduated early) did was drive me away from the church.

TommyO · December 11, 2007

It's good to see that you two can always agree about those damn Catholics, everything else no way but to hell with those damn Catholics!!!!!

gadgetlady · December 11, 2007

OK, I couldn't resist just one.

GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.

PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

First of all, the author spelled Abel wrong -- which has nothing to do with the question but irks me no end because he is setting himself up as an expert. Second of all, clearly he isn't a parent. Isn't it just remotely POSSIBLE that God knew all along where Abel was but asked Cain to see if he tried to lie or if he were repentant about his sin?

These really are not tough questions at all and don't demonstrate inconsistency, but rather lack of understanding and insight on the part of the reader.

gadgetlady · December 11, 2007

to hell with those damn Catholics!!!!!

Certainly not. I don't wish hell on anyone. Not even my worst enemies.

WASaBubbleButt · December 11, 2007

It's good to see that you two can always agree about those damn Catholics, everything else no way but to hell with those damn Catholics!!!!!

No, actually it was that damned Catholicism, not the Catholics that was the point of the post.

joe7777 · December 11, 2007

OK, I couldn't resist just one.
GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is.

PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view.

First of all, the author spelled Abel wrong -- which has nothing to do with the question but irks me no end because he is setting himself up as an expert. Second of all, clearly he isn't a parent. Isn't it just remotely POSSIBLE that God knew all along where Abel was but asked Cain to see if he tried to lie or if he were repentant about his sin?

These really are not tough questions at all and don't demonstrate inconsistency, but rather lack of understanding and insight on the part of the reader.

IF god is omniscient, why would he have to ask. And on top of that.

One is presuming (is one not?) that this is the same god who actually created the audience he was addressing. This leaves us with the insoluble mystery of why he would have molded ("in his own image," yet) a covetous, murderous, disrespectful, lying, and adulterous species. Create them sick, and then command them to be well? What a mad despot this is, and how fortunate we are that he exists only in the minds of his worshipers.

-Christopher Hitchens

gadgetlady · December 11, 2007

IF god is omniscient, why would he have to ask.

Um, have you never heard of a rhetorical question? And I presume based on your age (I could be wrong) that YOU are not a parent, but anyone who IS a parent understands asking a child something you already know the answer to. God didn't need Cain to answer Him because He, God, didn't know the answer. It was a prodding question.

joe7777 · December 11, 2007

Um, have you never heard of a rhetorical question? And I presume based on your age (I could be wrong) that YOU are not a parent, but anyone who IS a parent understands asking a child something you already know the answer to. God didn't need Cain to answer Him because He, God, didn't know the answer. It was a prodding question.

Ok, that was a hypothetical scenario NOT a rhetorical question.

gadgetlady · December 11, 2007

Ok, that was a hypothetical scenario NOT a rhetorical question.

My point was that not every question is asked with the questioner's not knowing the answer. And I don't think God's question was either hypothetical or rhetorical. He certainly wasn't hypothetically asking Cain where Abel was, nor was he asking Cain where Abel was hypothetically.

joe7777 · December 11, 2007

Either way, enough about that.

WASaBubbleButt · December 11, 2007

Rob...

How long have you been an atheist?

Chelle B · December 11, 2007

I'm a Christian and I try to follow Christ's way, and note I say "try" because I know I'm not perfect and make plenty of mistakes, but I also think that the way you live your life , therefore how you treat othres, if you help others, if you behave in a good and decent and humane way overall throughout your life is extremely important...

Absolutely - that is what free will is all about, IMHO.

TommyO · December 11, 2007

I'm sure all the Catholics feel better now that we agree it's not Catholics you dislike it's Catholicism.

As an Athiest I feel no need to dislike any religion, I just don't believe in God. How people who do believe in God choose to worship is of little consequence to me.

Chelle B · December 11, 2007

Well, lots of people have this debate. It really does come down to the same thing. If a God knows all before it is even done then prayers are not going to help. If by asking him to do you a little favor then he didn't know everything before it happened and he isn't much of a God. Thus, prayers cannot help or this God is not as claimed. We can like to think lots of things, that doesn't make them true.

We do need some margaritas for this to continue. People may like to believe that the limited science we have uncovered is the be-all and end-all of truth, but that doesn't make it true either.

My definition of God is way different from the one you are talking about. I am reminded of a play that I thoroughly enjoyed years ago, called Steambath.

I believe God granted us free will, and we have choice in life. I don't believe God is a Puppet Master. If you don't believe in prayer, that's cool with me. But you won't change my beliefs with absolute arguments. They just don't work with me - we don't have that experience or wisdom.

And I see miracles every day - and my beliefs become stronger as a result. Not as a result of church doctrine, but my own experiences and observations.