NPR was doing a segment this morning on a very large Christian movement to have the new movie, The Golden Compass, boycotted. Of the three Pullman (a professed rejector of organized religion and atheist), this one (based on Northern Lights) has the least occurence of "anti-religion" themes - the last having the most. He is seen as being anti-Christian and anti-Catholic, but if you're familiar with him, he is much more anti-religion in the most general sense.

People are trying to stop their children from seeing this movie, out of fear that interest in the movie will generate interest in the books and *gasp* expose their children to themes of anti-religion.

I really don't understand this.

Why would someone be afraid that their child might learn that there's such a thing as atheism or agnosticism?

Why does the Harry Potter series terrify parents? Is it horrible if children know that there's a fantasy world of magic, or IF they can make the more cognitive connections, that witchcraft is out there?

As an atheist, I would not prevent my child from reading books which presented religion or a diety as a good thing, or books that presented atheism as a bad thing, or books that taught about ideas outside of whatever. If my child wanted to go to church, I would not prevent it. If they wanted to read the bible, I would buy them one. I would hope that my child understands there are different things that are right for different people, and eventually gathers the information needed to make the decision that is right for them... whether it aligns with my personal beliefs is irrelevant. What's right for me isn't right for everyone, and everyone includes my own family.

I don't have a whole lot to add to this conversation, except to say, we took a law suit to the US Supreme Court over prayer at graduation.

The Supreme Court delayed until my child graduated and then declared the case moot.

I will say this: I learned more about hate from Christians than from any other group.

I would say the majority don't believe in an afterlife.

Personally I believe it doesn't matter -- Me as I know Me will be dead either way. I also think it's important to live your life now and be a good person now, just for the sake of doing good in the world, and not do good only because you fear eternal damnation.

I actually am a Christian who does not believe in the concept of eternal damnation, and I do good, because goodness was shown towards me, in the Earth I live on, the food and water I drink, and the life that I have. Many people who "claim" to be Christian are not, just as many who "claim" to know/understand life/their purpose do not.

__________________

People are people and there are good ones and bad ones from all beliefs and lack of belief. I don't judge anyone on their beliefs or lack of beliefs, I just want them to keep it away from me. I will support and defend their right to believe, but I will support and defend my right to lack belief.

Wasa, just curious were any of our founding fathers atheists? Do you have any research on that? brandyII

Wasa, just curious were any of our founding fathers atheists? Do you have any research on that? brandyII

I don't know that any were atheist but there were some that were deist.

Ever read the Treaty of Tripoli?

No I haven't read that but I find history interesting especially when it comes to theology. I guess after many years of being brainwashed by the Catholic Church and then finding out later what actually went on in history with the crusades etc...that I'm not surprised at anything anymore. History was a bit skewed when I was in school. Go figure!

Okay I read it on line, now I have a headache! Now I know more about the Freemasons than I ever new before.

Edited May 5, 200818 yr by brandyII

No I haven't read that but I find history interesting especially when it comes to theology. I guess after many years of being brainwashed by the Catholic Church and then finding out later what actually went on in history with the crusades etc...that I'm not surprised at anything anymore. History was a bit skewed when I was in school. Go figure!

Okay I read it on line, now I have a headache! Now I know more about the Freemasons than I ever new before.

HA! I was raised Catholic too. Funny how our priest left out so much history in church every Sunday!

I don't know what it is but it seems there are more Catholics leaving their church than any other religions. Maybe I'm wrong but you very rarely hear I'm an ex-Baptist or ex-Jew, it's alway ex-Catholic.

I learned more from my two daughters about the history of the Catholic Church than I ever even imagined when I was in school and it's kind of scary some of the stuff I learned but I guess I always felt something odd with Catholosism just couldn't put my finger on it.

I read a fascinating web page on Thomas Jefferson and the separation of church and state recently: Thomas Jefferson and the Separation of Church and State

I read a fascinating web page on Thomas Jefferson and the separation of church and state recently: Thomas Jefferson and the Separation of Church and State

The author's explanation is interesting indeed, yet when you read it without the narrative it is also quite interesting.

Time Hath Found Us: Sunday Special: Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter

And this is more interesting:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mfreereligion.htm

Edited May 5, 200818 yr by WASaBubbleButt

I think the comments in the article I posted generally match my interpretation when I read the full letter you posted: that religious rights are "natural" rights, in essence not granted by the government but granted by God. I think that was the concern at the time.

I think the comments in the article I posted generally match my interpretation when I read the full letter you posted: that religious rights are "natural" rights, in essence not granted by the government but granted by God. I think that was the concern at the time.

And I can see how that would have been a legit concern! I do. People should have the personal right to worship anything they want. But some Christians have taken that to a bit of an extreme throughout history and that is a problem today. We are still working to undo that one.

I have no problem with the gov't protecting those rights, I think the gov't should protect those rights (vs. grant them), but that doesn't carry over to any single religion can do any darn thing they wish. And that is the extreme that many within Christianity have taken historically.

And I can see how that would have been a legit concern! I do. People should have the personal right to worship anything they want. But some Christians have taken that to a bit of an extreme throughout history and that is a problem today. We are still working to undo that one.

I have no problem with the gov't protecting those rights, I think the gov't should protect those rights (vs. grant them), but that doesn't carry over to any single religion can do any darn thing they wish. And that is the extreme that many within Christianity have taken historically.

I think you'd be hard pressed to ignore the stated intent of the early pilgrims. Many believed that their main purpose in being in the new land was to further the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is even written into many of the original state compacts.

While I don't believe the government should push an official denomination or religion, I also don't believe we should ignore our roots. That being said, I don't think I would want a specific denomination of Christianity taught in school because I wouldn't trust the teachers or the public school system to get the Bible right. In the same sense, I don't think current science teachers would teach Creation Science or Intelligent Design very well; what I would like to see is the acknowledgment that there are varying and legitimate alternate theories out there. But the extremes to which we're going nowadays to disassociate ourselves from our history are, in my opinion, misguided.

I think you'd be hard pressed to ignore the stated intent of the early pilgrims. Many believed that their main purpose in being in the new land was to further the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is even written into many of the original state compacts.

While I don't believe the government should push an official denomination or religion, I also don't believe we should ignore our roots. That being said, I don't think I would want a specific denomination of Christianity taught in school because I wouldn't trust the teachers or the public school system to get the Bible right. In the same sense, I don't think current science teachers would teach Creation Science or Intelligent Design very well; what I would like to see is the acknowledgment that there are varying and legitimate alternate theories out there. But the extremes to which we're going nowadays to disassociate ourselves from our history are, in my opinion, misguided.

Actually, many believed that the main purpose was to practice their religion, whatever religion that may have been including paganism.

Roots? What roots? Native American roots? If you really want to be clear about it we should be smoking peyote and doing Native American dances. Perhaps when speaking of roots you should refer to your own and not those of everyone else. You are free to worship the Cookie Monster if you wish, you may not use tax dollars to push it on others or force it on innocent school children. That really is not asking too much.

By "you" I mean your roots, not you personally.

When xtianity comes up with a theory worthy of science, it might just be taught in school. Until then this is more proof that we are not doing a good job of teaching basics in school, such as basic science. We have adults that don't understand scientific theory. That is a shame.

Wow, everybody has been busy lil' beavers posting over the weekend. It takes me a little bit of time to play catchup, Wasa, because I rarely peruse and post on this board on the weekends. Kids trying to hog all my time, dontyaknow. But I will attempt to answer all your previous posts.

I didn't really think you'd be afraid of me per se.....you just said something like "Damn right we're afraid of Christinas", and I am a Christian, so I was just applying the statement to its logical end.

I think we're getting wires crossed on the ACLU thing. I don't want specific religious prayer in school (for the reasons you've mentioned), but I see nothing wrong with a moment of silence, which is what the Ill case centers on. Why would the ACLU fight a moment of silence? Why did they in Va. when that state tried to pass a "moment of silence" law (that's the one that went to the supreme court.....oh, I can post links if you want)? And why has the ACLU not filed a brief on the Muslim public school in NY?

I don't even want creationism taught in public school, McMadam. But I don't want evolution or the big bang theory taught as a fact, either, since they're both only theories, as is creationism. What my ideal teacher would say, basically, is "that as of right now, many scientists believe X, or that the evidence supports Y....but some people believe that the universe was created by a higher power. But since this is school and not church, we'll focus on X and Y". See, I don't mind if a teacher doesn't teach creationism, as long as she doesn't mock it in front of the class. Again, I don't see all the fuss there, as long as both sides are mentioned fairly.

And, I've taken away some education from here. I thought that atheists didn't believe in the concept of a higher power (and therefore an afterlife) in any way, shape, or form. This is kind of a hot button issue, and I would remind my fellow Christians to try and temper their passion a little ('cause we're not going to change somebody's mind on the R&R forum of LBT).