NPR was doing a segment this morning on a very large Christian movement to have the new movie, The Golden Compass, boycotted. Of the three Pullman (a professed rejector of organized religion and atheist), this one (based on Northern Lights) has the least occurence of "anti-religion" themes - the last having the most. He is seen as being anti-Christian and anti-Catholic, but if you're familiar with him, he is much more anti-religion in the most general sense.

People are trying to stop their children from seeing this movie, out of fear that interest in the movie will generate interest in the books and *gasp* expose their children to themes of anti-religion.

I really don't understand this.

Why would someone be afraid that their child might learn that there's such a thing as atheism or agnosticism?

Why does the Harry Potter series terrify parents? Is it horrible if children know that there's a fantasy world of magic, or IF they can make the more cognitive connections, that witchcraft is out there?

As an atheist, I would not prevent my child from reading books which presented religion or a diety as a good thing, or books that presented atheism as a bad thing, or books that taught about ideas outside of whatever. If my child wanted to go to church, I would not prevent it. If they wanted to read the bible, I would buy them one. I would hope that my child understands there are different things that are right for different people, and eventually gathers the information needed to make the decision that is right for them... whether it aligns with my personal beliefs is irrelevant. What's right for me isn't right for everyone, and everyone includes my own family.

Gadgetlady, I mean intelligent design is not a "scientific" theory because it can never be absolutely proven (although it can never be dis-proven, either).

Neither can molecules-to-man evolution.

Why would Christians (and actually Jews and Muslims, since we share those books of the Bible) claim the Earth was younger than it actually was? Nobody thinks the Bible was literally written on day 6. *edit* Ok, I was googling and saw where some nutjobs came up with the "young Earth" theory. It goes like this: they traced the genealogy from Jesus back to Adam and tallied up the years. Oooooookaaaaaaaay..........BTW, this group states unequivically that dinosaurs lived with people. Right. Ah well.....there's some in every group. Regardless, I think intelligent design should at least be mentioned (that term covers every conceivable religion, past and present, right?)

Plain, I believe in a young earth. I'm not a nutjob, I'm not uneducated, and I'm not anti-intellectual. While I appreciate that there are those who disagree with me (and some vehemently), I would appreciate it if you don't write off the theory as crackpot or nutjob. There are a lot of people who believe it.

My 2 Cents, ......... Forget it, I know I can only say something sarcastic so I won't say anything.

Oh except, Gadget, your Hot, don't worry I'm am extremely happily married. Just thought I would be civil after your last note to me on another thread.

Thanks, TommyO. I am, too (extremely happily married). Civility is good, but sarcasm, when it doesn't condemn, isn't such a bad thing either.

Sarcasm can be easily misunderstood when we are not having a face to face. In fact, I seen sarcasm interrupt honest dialogue at LBT. People can react to a piece of sarcasm they don't interpret as sarcasm and then they're off on some misguided tangent filled with hatefulness. As long as you realize that you can be misunderstood, go for it, but I've seen too many people actually hurt by scarastic remarks at LBT.

I teach my children not to kill because it is wrong, not because they will go to jail. Consequenses seldom have an impact on an individuals decision to do something wrong. If the only reason people and their children don't kill people is because of jail then the world would be a very scary place.

I have a question, does one need to practice Athiesm to be an Athiest or does the fact that I do not believe in God/s make me an athiest. I ask because I do not believe in God/s but I also do not want to be part of a group or be identified as practicing any organized belief system.

That's something that I'm always stunned by - the idea that atheists have no morals. Christians do not have the exclusive rights to morality.

In fact the very idea that people need the reminder of hell to scare them into being better people or better Christians is odd to me.

I've even read posts that said in effect, I'm a Christian and if I'm wrong, what's the harm. If you're wrong for not being a Christian, you're going to hell! So the inference is, that we all should join a church, become Christian and protect ourselves from an eternity of burning in hell. Frankly I would hope that people want to be better people and treat each other well because it is the right thing to do. To me, worrying about hell is such a selfish motivation for being good.

Many people are good, for goodness sake.

I've even read posts that said in effect, I'm a Christian and if I'm wrong, what's the harm. If you're wrong for not being a Christian, you're going to hell! So the inference is, that we all should join a church, become Christian and protect ourselves from an eternity of burning in hell. Frankly I would hope that people want to be better people and treat each other well because it is the right thing to do. To me, worrying about hell is such a selfish motivation for being good.

AKA Pascal's Wager. It always seemed like a junior high level argument to me.

Tommy, that's an interesting question. I think that by definition if you do not believe in God, that you're an atheist. However I don't believe that it makes you a card carrying atheist. I think you can quietly practice your own belief system without being a part of some larger sect. In fact, I don't know of an organized group of people who practice atheistism. Do you?

Same with agnostics. I think. I know more about organized religions than I do about random believers (or non-believers) but maybe some expert will add to the commentary here.

There seems to be Atheist organizations on the net, even one's that ask for donations. I have no desire to join and I certainly won't be making a donation but they are there. I must say I am somewhat disapointed in this, I know that like-minded people tend to congregate but I tend to be a strong believer in individuality. I also have a strong dislike for authority figures so you can imagine how I feel about the idea of God. I guess you could say if you want to be the Pope, God, the King or even the president of the Association of American Atheists you won't get me to submit.

I teach my children right from wrong and I sure explain to them that (example) muder is wrong because you are taking someone's life and we don't have the right to do that and that person's family will suffer if you do it, and because it's cruel, and I go on and on about many reasons why murder is wrong and I make it clear to them of course, and also about any other wrong doings, but consequences are definitely important , not only that, but I do think that they have a big impact on people's behaviors, imagine if everyone was going around knowing that there are no consequences for their actions, in this case their wrong actions.... sometimes morals would stop some people, but sometimes even when morals were not taught, knowing the consequences can be very powerful to stop them from committing a crime, serious or minor crimes, they may not stop everyone, but I'm sure it would stop many, in fact because sometimes the law is not enforced strong enough and some people go in and out of jail with very little consequences, they don't care anymore and they keep braking the law, I say that makes this world a scary place for sure...now if there were stronger laws/consequences, I bet they will make many people think about it twice.... and besides, when morals lack, consequences are there to remind us what to do or not do.

Edited May 6, 200818 yr by ELENATION

Elenation I see your point. Consequences are always a factor. But we are built with a conscience. Although some of us need more guidance and discipline than others.

Tommy for instance can distinguish right from wrong quite well all on his own.

There seems to be Atheist organizations on the net, even one's that ask for donations. I have no desire to join and I certainly won't be making a donation but they are there. I must say I am somewhat disapointed in this, I know that like-minded people tend to congregate but I tend to be a strong believer in individuality. I also have a strong dislike for authority figures so you can imagine how I feel about the idea of God. I guess you could say if you want to be the Pope, God, the King or even the president of the Association of American Atheists you won't get me to submit.

TommyO, you could be like my bro-in-law when he asked his nephs and nieces one morning why they were going to church when they could just stay home and worship him! That's kind of sarcasm brandyII

Yeah, I know what you mean, I will dare to say that I can determine right from wrong on my own pretty well too.... or at least most of the times....LOL! but like you said consequences are a factor, IMHO a big factor, not everyone is raised by parents that offer decent values and good morals, so all they have is consequences to stop them.... of course, some people don't stop at nothing, at all.... I certainly hope that is the minority of people.

FYI statistically crime rates and recidivism rates are only minutely affected by consequences, if at all. That is why, for example, states with the death penalty do not have lower murder rates. It is far more likely that you will find higher crime rates in the same places we find greater poverty. This would suggest that need is a far greater determination of crime then tough penalties. When people make claims like tougher laws are the answer to crime rates they make these claims because the solution seems obvious when in fact it is not. Just because we believe something doesn't make it so (See Creationism). So you can say that consequences work but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. It is most important that we are motivated to act a certain way because of the moral code we live by.

In short if you need hell to ensure that you don't kill someone I'm fine with that but please, please, please don't go backsliding on me now.

Oh, TommyO, some of these peeps are waaaaay past backsliding!!