"Religion of Peace" Update

kagoscuba · December 11, 2007

Just to play devil's advocate:

Joshua:

8:23 And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua. 8:24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword. 8:25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai. 8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

Not that any of this allays the severity of the deed the father did to his daughter; however, there is much smiting and dying, in the name of the Lord, in the Bible too.

I'm no fan of the Muslim religion, but examples of one-off items like you provided don't add too much to the argument; in fact, they would tend to dilute it with the hint of ethnocentrism introduced.

Chris_NJ · December 11, 2007

Just to play devil's advocate:
Joshua:

8:23 And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua. 8:24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword. 8:25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai. 8:26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai.

Not that any of this allays the severity of the deed the father did to his daughter; however, there is much smiting and dying, in the name of the Lord, in the Bible too.

I'm no fan of the Muslim religion, but examples of one-off items like you provided don't add too much to the argument; in fact, they would tend to dilute it with the hint of ethnocentrism introduced.

Not saying there isn't but welcome to 2007 and modern society.

hijabigirl1973 · December 11, 2007

So what Chris, one incident makes all Muslim the same? I think not and what this father did was forbidden in Islam. Look it up, honor killings are not a part of Islam.

Chris_NJ · December 11, 2007

So what Chris, one incident makes all Muslim the same? I think not and what this father did was forbidden in Islam. Look it up, honor killings are not a part of Islam.

At least she didn't name her Teddy Bear Mohamed.

BRB Going to try an look up how many Christian honor killings there are compared to Muslim ones.....

Back, yup no comparison.

transformer · December 12, 2007

From what I can gather after my careful analysis of what everyone had to say, all humans are just totally EVIL! :evil: We all suck and will eventually kill each other off...

kagoscuba · December 12, 2007

"We all suck and will eventually kill each other off..."

That's why, when people ask if I am scared diving with sharks, I always laugh and say, "Have you been to the mall recently? That's a lot scarier than any dive where the sharks show up." At least sharks are semi-predictible.

green · December 12, 2007

This horrible tragedy happened pretty close to where I live and thus it has been getting a lot of coverage in the local media. You might be interested to hear that the head of the Canadian Muslim Congress spoke out on television about the hijab, explaining that there is no mention of this sort of garment in the Qu'ran; he explained that these garments - hijab, niqab, abaya, etc - have purely cultural roots which have become mistaken over time for religious imperatives.

As for the girl herself, she had left home recently and was staying with friends. She returned, moved out again, and was going home merely in order to pick up some more of her clothes when she was killed. The photos of her show that she was a really cute girl with dimples. The brother may yet also be charged with murder pending the results of further investigation.

I don't think that it is fair to blame this murder entirely on Islam. There are also cultural factors to take into account. The family comes from a region where honour killings do take place. Think, too, that not all families are the same. Some are less healthy than others, and certainly living in a new and very different country will definitely place additional stress on the family, particularly on the males who may well be left feeling powerless and thus emasculated in front of their own families. The word is that this family is very religious, very traditional, and so when you factor in the defiant female, his daughter, you can begin to understand, I think, the sad underpinnings of this dreadful tragedy.

Still, Islam does seem to play a role but whether this is cultural, I don't know. However, there does seem to be a sharp inequality between men and women in this religion plus a sanctioning of domestic violence, a combo that you don't find in the earlier two Judaic religions, Judiaism itself and Christianity. I recently read an article about Muslim daughters of Turkish families who live in Germany who have fled their families and their cities in order to avoid arranged marriages. These women claim that if a male member of their families should ever find them they will kill them in order to regain the family honour.

Long post, eh, but these are my thoughts on the matter for what they are worth.

Chris_NJ · December 12, 2007

re: "The family comes from a region where honour killings do take place. "
....and where the father is going to live after trial and sentencing, there is another kind of honor...

Its a Canadian prison. He will be out in a couple years probably. :eek:

green · December 13, 2007

Its a Canadian prison. He will be out in a couple years probably.

Bwahaha, notes Green bitterly. Yep, you are likely right.

AnneElliot · December 24, 2007

I must say I found this thread quite interesting. I could be sitting next to some of you in a support group hearing and discussing the difficult life that an obese person leads, while all along the person next to me might ardently believe in begining the next holocoust.

Can you imagine it? I know horrid ( that is if you are a sensible person) What would we wear, not the star of david to identify us in the streets..Ah! the cresent moon in green. Neogestapo ripping hijabs off young girls heads while we are being lead to dentention and concentration camps, would they situate these camps of death in the England or the US ? or maybe throw us in the middle of Poland and Cuba? When comments such as the below are uttered, any intelligent person would imagine no less.

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Until this happens I will continue to do what I do and believe that we need to kill every muslim man, woman and child before they can do the same to us.

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As these thoughts were racing in my head and I serioulsy considered ending my membership in this forum, I hit the "next" button. Only to see the comment below refering to "hijabgirl1973" In one breath you condemn billions to death and in the next you refer to one as "good people" what an inconstant nature you have? Can you not take a step back and see the irrationailty of you behaviour.

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By the way thanks for the reading material, your good people.

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You watch CNN and read sensentional news and decide that all Muslims are mad, I know my next sentence is going to sound rather old. But the actions of few, should not condemn the many.

You ask why dont we yell and write letters? Do you see us all being connected by some invisible web, muslims are of all different creeds and cultures and lead lives that involve work, play and family things that occupy the mind, we watch CNN and BBC like you. Lamenate on the bad news and change the channel, we have no special fire in us, life is far to difficult for that.

I ask you how long did take for the Roman Catholic Church to end the practise of sending young "fallen women" to asylums or for that matter, how long did it take the church to deal with the sexual abuse in its ranks? These are offences commited by men and women who are a part of a structured organization, can you say the same of a demented man who murders his daughter in a fit of anger? I am not here to compare religions, all religions have those who wish to pervert them for thier own good.

But I must say, I will certainly keep to the Pre-op and Post-op pages of this forum, I find that I prefer it when I dont see the ugly side of the forum.

DerickM · December 24, 2007

I must say I found this thread quite interesting. I could be sitting next to some of you in a support group hearing and discussing the difficult life that an obese person leads, while all along the person next to me might ardently believe in begining the next holocoust.
Can you imagine it? I know horrid ( that is if you are a sensible person) What would we wear, not the star of david to identify us in the streets..Ah! the cresent moon in green. Neogestapo ripping hijabs off young girls heads while we are being lead to dentention and concentration camps, would they situate these camps of death in the England or the US ? or maybe throw us in the middle of Poland and Cuba? When comments such as the below are uttered, any intelligent person would imagine no less.

The camps would be set up wherever is necessary of course.

As these thoughts were racing in my head and I serioulsy considered ending my membership in this forum, I hit the "next" button. Only to see the comment below refering to "hijabgirl1973" In one breath you condemn billions to death and in the next you refer to one as "good people" what an inconstant nature you have? Can you not take a step back and see the irrationailty of you behaviour.

All great truths begin as blasphemies.

Can you not take a step back and see the evil that is being perpetrated in your name? (if I am correct in assuming you are a muslim). You condemn me for taking an equal and opposite reaction. Why?

You watch CNN and read sensentional news and decide that all Muslims are mad, I know my next sentence is going to sound rather old. But the actions of few, should not condemn the many.

I do not watch CNN, A society/religon/community/etc. is resposnible for actions (good or bad) carried out in its name in the present.

You ask why dont we yell and write letters? Do you see us all being connected by some invisible web, muslims are of all different creeds and cultures and lead lives that involve work, play and family things that occupy the mind, we watch CNN and BBC like you. Lamenate on the bad news and change the channel, we have no special fire in us, life is far to difficult for that.

You took the time to write out your post condemning my views. Why not do the same for what I suggest? Write a letter to your editor or some other public forum perhaps? or even better, to Al-Jazeera!

I ask you how long did take for the Roman Catholic Church to end the practise of sending young "fallen women" to asylums or for that matter, how long did it take the church to deal with the sexual abuse in its ranks?

I ask you, how long will muslim men stone,behead,mutilate thier wives or daughters? How long will muslim families send thier sons and daughters to kill innocent people for being the wrong religion or country?

How long until the so called "peaceful" members of islam stand up to "the few"?

These are offences commited by men and women who are a part of a structured organization, can you say the same of a demented man who murders his daughter in a fit of anger?

Yes, when done in the name of a common cause. I say again, a culture must take responsibility for the actions of its members in the present. :tired

I am not here to compare religions, all religions have those who wish to pervert them for thier own good.

Of course they do, and if christians nowadays in numbers that are found in muslim culture were going around cutting off thier daughters heads for not wearing a headscarf or killing innocent people in suicide bombings, I would have the same view of them as I do muslims.

But I must say, I will certainly keep to the Pre-op and Post-op pages of this forum, I find that I prefer it when I dont see the ugly side of the forum.

Well, I promise I won't force you to read the posts in R&R. :mad:

AnneElliot · December 24, 2007

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The camps would be set up wherever is necessary of course.

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What would be an appropriate beginging here? Oh maybe this

Hiel Derrick!....psedou suburbnite neonazi.

Coniving the mass murder of billions while guzziling on twinkies and Dr. Pepper

That comment sent a shiver down my spine. I am suprised that such comments are allowed on the forum. Comments that endorse and impishly seek the cold blodded mass murder of billions, of women and children. I am sure if someone in this forum said the N word a few times too many in an angry post their account would be immediatly suspended.

This is worse.

I addressed each of your arguments and the evident inconsistency in your behaviour towards a hijabgirl1973 "muslim that should be killed' but you ignore them.

You assume that I am inactive individual who has not written or spoken out, only because it suites and supports your racists beliefs.

Moreoever, you choose to ignore the problems and extermism that exists in all religions, from rampid sexual abuse and robbery in the catholic church, ethnic cleansing commited by christian serbs to volient acts commited by extermist hindus against miniorty christians and muslims in India and Srilanka.

Somehow you have validated your extremist twisted belefs and hatred in a perverted ranking of all religions from very worst to the least worst.

Do not attempt to back up your blind prejudice and hatred towards Muslims with fallacious and hollow arugments.

It would be far simpler to head to the Salon and shave you hair and join the ranks of your Neonazi brethren...that is ofcourse assuming you aren't alrealdy a member !

DerickM · December 24, 2007

why do you assume that I am a neonazi? I am way to dark to join even if I wanted to.

I am taking a opposite position of extremist islamists. Why is that so bad?

They want to destroy me, therefore I want return the favor before they get a chance. Not hug them or some such tripe.

you may wish to believe in some fantasy version of Islam, but you ought to study the history of Islamic ascendancy.

DerickM · December 24, 2007

Moreoever, you choose to ignore the problems and extermism that exists in all religions, from rampid sexual abuse and robbery in the catholic church, ethnic cleansing commited by christian serbs to volient acts commited by extermist hindus against miniorty christians and muslims in India and Srilanka.

I do know this that Hindus suffered greatly under Muslim regimes. 'Eye for an Eye' maybe?

Northern India has been ruled by Muslim rulers from roughly 1000 A.D. to the beginning of British rule in 1700s. With the exception of Emperor Akbar, most rulers were hostile to Hindus to greater or lesser degrees. Suffice it to say there are no Hindu temples in Muslim controlled areas that are more than 300 years old. Khajuraho complex was spared only because it was lost and covered by forest until a British surveyor rediscovered in the 1800s.

or how about the ethnic cleansing of the Assyrian Christian population from Eastern Anatolia by the Muslims?

Yes, all religions have thier bad periods, thank you for that illuminating insight. What is your point?