We have a big thing sstarting to take form in our country.Mainly in the northern and weterns area's. But now we're seeing many of the White Women finding Black Men more desirable. I thin's wonderful...what do you think?:cry

Lucy: I'm afraid I don't understand your sentence "Please don't conflate clarity with snobbery." I haven't heard conflate used in quite that context before. Bring me up to date, will you?

Anyway, I believe you're spot on when you say that spelling and syntax are not what some people were taking issue with when they were attacking Lee. But that is what some people were complaining about.

It seems that sometimes when we find a person to be interesting and nice even though their posts are difficult to read, we cut them some slack. But when we disagree with their politics, and their communication reflects poor grammar and syntax, those things are particularly annoying.* I believe that is what Green may have been speaking to.

*George Bush for instance is a prime example. He drives up up a farking wall. :tired

Now, my reactions towards those of Lee4's communiques which he has recently been posting in R&R have been qualified by having read some of his earlier posts, ones which he had submitted in the general lapband forums. Those posts were wordy but open and friendly. He had been very direct about describing himself, his family, and his particular weight issues.

Now he has discovered what is arguably LBT's most challenging and most interesting forum. This is the area where those of us who are interested in this kind of thing have the freedom to get together and discuss controversial topics, usually very controversial topics.

As we all know there are many LBT folk who are uncomfortable with R&R and who would be happy to see this particular arena shut down. But those of us who like it here like it here a lot.

It is possible that I am a Pollyanna but I do not believe that Lee4 is a troll, a perv, or on drugs. I do believe that neither his formal education nor his life experiences marry up with many of ours in a slick fit but I don't think that that means that he doesn't have a right to engage in conversation with us.

Now, the individual to whom BJean was referring to was an odious type who was called Ron Cusano. He had serious problems with spelling and syntax, an annoyance for sure, but the cat was smug and also had an agenda which he was pushing big time. I for one have no sense that Lee4 wishes anything more than to engage in discussion with the rest of us though it is true that he can become kinda cranky at times. Of course some of us have given him a rough ride, too.

Engaging in conversation is fine, but he doesn't and isn't RIGHT in everything that he says. THAT is what is annoying to me, is his, "I am right and you can't possible know what you are talking about" mentality. I can overlook grammar and spelling and lots of typing errors. I have a bad habit of putting lots of periods after thoughts that I type out............... like that. But to bluntly say some of the things he says, is just ignorant on his part! I tried to have a discussion with him before and it is his way or NO WAY! I ended up apologizing to him since he got up in arms and freaked out on me about he is the only right one and everyone else is wrong....but to each his own...and he is definitely one of a kind.

Engaging in conversation is fine, but he doesn't and isn't RIGHT in everything that he says. THAT is what is annoying to me, is his, "I am right and you can't possible know what you are talking about" mentality. I can overlook grammar and spelling and lots of typing errors. I have a bad habit of putting lots of periods after thoughts that I type out............... like that. But to bluntly say some of the things he says, is just ignorant on his part! I tried to have a discussion with him before and it is his way or NO WAY! I ended up apologizing to him since he got up in arms and freaked out on me about he is the only right one and everyone else is wrong....but to each his own...and he is definitely one of a kind.

Yah, the cat is hard work but I guess I am not feeling as vexed as many of the rest of you are. I do find a number of Lee4's topics to be very interesting. He is curious about the possible correlation of poverty and obesity. He is also curious about the fact that so many very young girls seem to be sporting the signs of sexual maturity. (This was the comment which earned him the epithet of perv, by the way.) And he is wondering why these very young girls are entering into sexual maturity - he wonders whether this might have something to do with the growth hormones which are fed into our food animals.

As to his questions concerning male-female relationships, well, I have got to admit that I would have been mightily offended by these before I started working in an all male environment. In those days I was a politickally correct individual and a feminist. For the past 25 years, however, I have been building aircraft and working mainly with men. Men have their own worries and concerns and they are as vulnerable as we are in their own way.

I guess I don't find Lee4's questions about women and finding a mate all that disturbing because they are typical of the questions which men have asked me. The way I figure it he is a dude who is raising two young sons on his own and he is also part of the lapband community. By his own account he is getting less than zero support from his own family in his work to lose weight. I think of Lee4 as one of our family.

Thanks Kat for taking the time to explain. I was not privy to that other thread so I was completey taken by surprise when I accidentally bumped onto this one and saw it get so feisty so fast.

I had a big problem with a guy a while back whose spelling was atrocious and punctuation non-existent, but what really made me do a fast burn was how he thought he was the only one who was right - and I DO mean right! All the way right and beyond. He was also very insulting to others. To make matters worse, the people who agreed with him were oblivious to the fact that he used such hateful language toward some of us and they became indignant when some of us took him to task.

This sounds like a very similar scenario. That thread went on forever and occasionally a poster would stumble onto the scene and wonder what the heck was going on.

It was very entertaining stuff, and there actually was a lot of information exchanged in the process, but it was extremely heated and things got out of hand a time or two. I've been trying to not take things so personally ever since. I do not always succeed, but I do try. Anyway, thanks again for setting the record straight.

Bjean,

I did not participate much on that thread, but I read it in its' entirety. The reason why Cusano comes to mind, (because in reading through Lee4's threads, that is exactly who came to my mind), is because they are alike in their style...verbally attacking when challenged to the point of being demeaning and abusive, believe me he has provoked a lot of the sentiment here. You have several people here all saying the same thing, everybody can not be wrong or just misreading his posts.

Green,

I think he is someone who has failed at several relationships, and now has a problem with women, not being able to admit that it takes two to tango...He also is being somewhat of a martyr, constantly mentioning how he has to take care of his two boys,( he seems very angry about that), something women have done on their own for decades. I am in accordance with the majority here, so I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree. He is not a victim, and if he can't stand the heat...

It was me that called him a perv, and it was not correct in the context of his particular statement, but it made me feel very icky in the context of his ideas in general.

I see a guy who was probably out of place all through his life and has not been able to find or maintain a successful relationship with a woman in his adult life. Reading between the lines of his so called random debate topics, I see a man who is still refusing to face that fact that he has faults and flaws like all of us and if none of us dumb bitches will deign to have him in our beds and our homes, then he might just find a Fillipino, a younger woman, and older woman, with the tacit idea that these women might find him acceptable since compared to them he is in a position of power and that he will exploit that to get what he wants - which is obviously a housemaid, nanny and sex slave. Deplorable.

A really grubby, disgusting human being if you ask me. A total social misfit with delusions of power and of the fact that he is right all the time. A total lack of understanding of other people's points of view and a total inability to handle being disagreed with with.

And an idiot to boot. Totally too stupid to realise the level of everyone's disagreement and disgust with him, focuses on the symptoms, not the cause.

Whether or not he can spell is beside the point.

And as far as being typical of men goes, I dont really respect any man who is unable to challenge the socially constructivist nature of what constitutes malehood. There's no excuse for being a pig and saying "I am simply being male". That's ridiculous.

Just as I dont really respect women who just are and dont question and think about all the elements that are embodied in being female and question where they came from and how they got into our heads.

Not that we all need to totally quash the maleness or femaleness of ourselves totally, but the elements of it that excuse rude, arrogant behaviour in males or allow us to be totally controlled by males as females are better off consigned to the dark ages.

Men like Lee, we dont need them in a modern society. Its no wonder he cant find mateship and relationships amongst people who have their heads in the 21st century.

Bjean,

Green,

I think he is someone who has failed at several relationships, and now has a problem with women, not being able to admit that it takes two to tango...He also is being somewhat of a martyr, constantly mentioning how he has to take care of his two boys,( he seems very angry about that), something women have done on their own for decades. I am in accordance with the majority here, so I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree. He is not a victim, and if he can't stand the heat...

You have made very good points. Thanks from Green.

I fell madly in love with a black man. It had nothing to do with his color. He was wonderful and very special to me. We are not together but I still love him very much. We met at work and we live opossite coasts. I am in CA and he is in NY. I miss him every day.

serious: Yup. I'm getting the drift! I know people couldn't understand back then why that guy could push my buttons so quickly. He was always right (in his own mind) and refused to ever take responsibility for his own words. I guess he and Lee probably have a lot in common... even as different as they might seem to be on the surface.

Julie: It's a shame that you and your guy can't be together. Are you actually broken up, or just separated by the miles? There's a difference.

I am a white woman married to a black man. I have been for several years now although, I have dated black men for around 18 years or so.I didn't set out to fall in love with somenone of another race it just happened. I'm from the South and let me tell you anyone who says racism is a thing of the past needs to come and walk in my shoes a day or two. I receive it from whites and blacks.I believe you have the right to love who you chose whether it's someone of a different race , a different gender what business is it of mine???

Yes, its not the subject matter that made me mad, its the tone of the posts. I suspect a troll as well.

It's the tone, the spelling and the grammar that are making me see trolls under this bridge.

Love is color blind, baby.

Love is blind, period!

Love the photo of your pets!

Is a troll someone who goes around from post to post just trying to stir up trouble? I've been here for a long time, but I am embarrassed to say I am not clear on the definition.

Trolls are posters who like to jump out and go "BOO!" and stir up trouble. Then they slink back under their bridge and skulk while they plot they're next attack. Not all trolls are nasty-bad people in real life, however. The anonymity of the internet allows folks to hide behind bad behavior they'd never do face to face.

For all the posters on this site, I'm seeing fewer trolls, flames and Lord of the Flies behaviors than I have on other weight loss boards. LapBandsters must be an overall happier lot, huh?