Dr. Jalil Illan with Baja Bariatrics and Omar Acosta - A Warning

[CrazyJaney 775]

I've been a critical care nurse for 18 years. MD means they went to medical school but it doesn't mean anything else. It doesn't mean they are Board Certified. Board Certification is a gold standard for physicians/surgeons.

[InfiniteButterfly 438]

I won't take offense, but I am a CPA and that is NOT an organization. Having obtained the CPA certification requires a very stringent testing process to prove competency in taxes, auditing and accounting methods, to include governmental, GAP, IFRS and other such accounting standards, and does not simply mean joining an association. On the other hand, AICPA is an association and if you are a certified public account you can belong to the association. I do belong to that association. I do indicate CPA after my name on my letterhead. Ha, I do not add AICPA after my name. Although I do include my associations in my resume under the section of organizations and associations. Very big difference for sure. If I were to seek out an accountant for high level competency, I would certainly look for one that had achieved the CPA certification. Not to say that any accountant may be able to perform the same duties, but chances are likely that a CPA has more knowledge, experience, and training.

 

Now that you say those letters behind a doctors name mean nothing other then associations that they belong to, as you just incorrectly stated was the case with CPA, I will call my surgeon and ask him what FACS means and what he did to get that distinction. I will get back to you with his response.

 

Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, often listed as "FACS", is a post-nominal title used to indicate that the surgeon's education and training, professional qualifications, surgical competence, and ethical conduct have passed a rigorous evaluation, and have been found to be consistent with the high standards established and demanded by said College. In order to apply for membership, a surgeon typically must be certified by a member board of the American Board of Medical Specialties.

 

So it's more than just letters or a social organization, it actually does require some kind of evaluation to be able to use this title. (edited to credit Wikipedia for the above information. I found similar on other websites, but the explanation was more consolidated here)

Edited July 23, 2014 by InfiniteButterfly

[Kissifur 244]

 

Fellow of the American Board of Medical Specialties.

 

So it's more than just letters or a social organization, it actually does require some kind of evaluation to be able to use this title. (edited to credit Wikipedia for the above information. I found similar on other websites, but the explanation was more consolidated here)

 

Are the letters required to preform surgery?

[InfiniteButterfly 438]

 

 

Fellow of the American Board of Medical Specialties.

 

So it's more than just letters or a social organization, it actually does require some kind of evaluation to be able to use this title. (edited to credit Wikipedia for the above information. I found similar on other websites, but the explanation was more consolidated here)

Are the letters required to preform surgery?

 

Not from what I've seen. It's just an additional layer of accreditation and advanced training.

[Kissifur 244]

 

Not from what I've seen. It's just an additional layer of accreditation and advanced training.

Thank you for the clarification. The information was offer as if a surgeon without the "letters" could only perform certain surgeries.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

jjwinWA said:

I won't take offense, but I am a CPA and that is NOT an organization. Having obtained the CPA certification requires a very stringent testing process to prove competency in taxes, auditing and accounting methods, to include governmental, GAP, IFRS and other such accounting standards, and does not simply mean joining an association. On the other hand, AICPA is an association and if you are a certified public account you can belong to the association. I do belong to that association. I do indicate CPA after my name on my letterhead. Ha, I do not add AICPA after my name. Although I do include my associations in my resume under the section of organizations and associations. Very big difference for sure. If I were to seek out an accountant for high level competency, I would certainly look for one that had achieved the CPA certification. Not to say that any accountant may be able to perform the same duties, but chances are likely that a CPA has more knowledge, experience, and training.

Now that you say those letters behind a doctors name mean nothing other then associations that they belong to, as you just incorrectly stated was the case with CPA, I will call my surgeon and ask him what FACS means and what he did to get that distinction. I will get back to you with his response.

Thank you, jjinWA, for that info and clarification. I didn't realize that AICPA is the testing / certification group / agency for all CPAs. Sorry about that. I look forward to hearing what you learn from your surgeon about the medical societies listed earlier in this thread.

(If anyone is interested, the American Bar Association does not do any testing, certifying or licensing of lawyers -- that's done by the State Bar Associations for each state and the District of Columbia. The ABA is a professional association for lawyers that offers education to lawyers and those who support them in the delivery of legal services. There are hundreds of thousands of practicing lawyers who don't belong to the ABA.)

CrazyJaney said:

I've been a critical care nurse for 18 years. MD means they went to medical school but it doesn't mean anything else. It doesn't mean they are Board Certified. Board Certification is a gold standard for physicians/surgeons.

I agree, CrazyJaney, that it's the doctors' board certifications that would be most informative for prospective patients.

Infinite Butterfly said:

Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, often listed as "FACS", is a post-nominal title used to indicate that the surgeon's education and training, professional qualifications, surgical competence, and ethical conduct have passed a rigorous evaluation, and have been found to be consistent with the high standards established and demanded by said College. In order to apply for membership, a surgeon typically must be certified by a member board of the American Board of Medical Specialties.

So it's more than just letters or a social organization, it actually does require some kind of evaluation to be able to use this title. (edited to credit Wikipedia for the above information. I found similar on other websites, but the explanation was more consolidated here)

Infinite Butterfly, you're right that these organizations are not "just" social organizations. I think I over-stretched that point while trying to make the bigger point that these organizations don't certify or license doctors in any way. As I understand these societies' rules for admission, doctors may apply for membership in the societies -- typically by offering references from other doctors they know who are already members of those societies. And you're right that the societies offer educational seminars at their conferences. I just don't think anyone gets certified or licensed to do surgery as a result of attending those seminars.

But with so much investigatory talent on this forum, we'll learn if I'm mistaken about that.

Thanks to all who are offering information and opinions about doctors' qualifications and ways that patients can research their surgeon options.

Frankly, I think WE patients deserve a bloody certificate as we learn how best to evaluate our WLS surgical and surgeon options.

Edited July 23, 2014 by VSGAnn2014

[jjinWA 511]

...Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, often listed as "FACS", is a post-nominal title used to indicate that the surgeon's education and training, professional qualifications, surgical competence, and ethical conduct have passed a rigorous evaluation, and have been found to be consistent with the high standards established and demanded by via this accreditation process.. In order to apply for membership, a surgeon typically must be certified by a member board of the American Board of Medical Specialties.

FACS certification is somewhat like the CPA Board of Accountants process. The CPA board will not issue certification until the accountant has passed stringent testing requirements, and includes an ethics exam. To keep the CPA status and remain licensed as a CPA continuing education must be meet yearly. This ensures that the CPA stays updated on the changes that occur in Tax, auditing, and accounting standards. Any disciplinary actions, Etc are reported via the Board of Accountancy Web site for the publics information.

Based on my discussion with my surgeon his FACS status must be earned and maintained much the same way. He stated his surgical results are monitored and published, etc through ABMS and any disciplinary actions would also be published via this web location. In order to keep his FACS credentials he must pursue continuing education, training etc ensuring he keeps abreast of updates in his specialty (bariatric surgery).

Based on my conversation with the surgeon, such accreditation provides additional assurance to the patient that this surgeon has meet additional and higher standards then that of a doctor with just MD status. Surgeons with FACS or other types of accreditation have received additional and continued ongoing training in their chosen area of surgery specialty.

This does not mean a dr with with just MD status is not competent in his field. Just as it does not mean an accountant is not competent in his field. The accreditation of CPA or a FACS simply means that the person has proven they have met the stringent requirements of competency by the certified boards in their field of expertise.

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

Thanks, jjwinWA.

Did you get any impression from the conversation with your surgeon that membership in these societies distinguish in skills between those who are not members vs. those who are members?

(I realize he might be naturally prejudiced in favor of his fellow members ... but did a discussion about any distinction in skills come up in any way?)

Thanks,

Ann

[jjinWA 511]

Thanks, jjwinWA. Did you get any impression from the conversation with your surgeon that membership in these societies distinguish in skills between those who are not members vs. those who are members? (I realize he might be naturally prejudiced in favor of his fellow members ... but did a discussion about any distinction in skills come up in any way?) Thanks, Ann

He just said that they must meet stringent level of training and ongoing education to obtain and maintain FACS credentials. This is much like what I had to do and must continue to do to keep my CPA status. I am an auditor so my CPE (continuing professional education) courses that I must take each year focus in my area of expertise - internal auditor of a corporation and as an external auditor for publicly traded companies. He stated he and other surgeons with FACS status follow this same type of training whereby they focus in their area of expertise, for him being bariatric surgery.

But again, that does not mean a doctor without such accreditation is not pursuing this same ongoing training. It is simply a requirement for those with the accreditation to meet the standard level of expertise and continuing education requirement. To not do so would mean the loss of the accreditation. A professional without the accreditation is not monitored to determine if stringent level of training has been met or if continuing education is ongoing. The use of CPA or FACS or other types of accreditation assures the user that the professional in question has meet the required guidelines set forth by the licensing board.

[ChelceyA 30]

I continue to find it astonishing, sad and shocking what levels the Omar worshippers will stoop to simply because they believe is something did not happen to them, it could not possibly happen to anyone else. It just continues to reinforce the level of influence and power he has over these woman. It is scary and cult-like behavior.

Bingo!

May you all (and by 'all', I mean the Cabal of individuals who would seem to be 'fundamentalists' when it comes to the Baja clinic and their coordinating staff), be THOROUGHLY ashamed of yourselves.

You leave me agog at your actions.

If anyone needs any legal counsel as to potential options (albeit I'm not American, don't specialise in the laws of the internet (but have friends that do) and am not state-specific - although it wouldn't take me long to work out your statutes and the laws of the internet are fairly transnational anyway), I would be happy to provide any help or assistance I can.

US Citizen? Whitney? Wow.. tread carefully now.. I do believe you have found the line and stepped WAY over it.

I really really like you.

In the Facebook security settings, you will find a list of active sessions and where exactly these active sessions are taking place. She did it, she hacked my FB and created a fake profile of me. What she did is criminal and as far as threats go, she sent me a message telling me that I have no idea what she is capable of. I did not ever say that any of the fans girls, were responsible for the copies of texts that she used, I simply stated that she was coached. You figure it out!

Read loud and clear. I absolutely double dawg DARE her to do that to me. Go ahead, darlen... I'm waiting.

@@Susan Lackey. We're still waiting for truthful answers regarding these questions about the events that may or may not have been associated with your series of "warnings" to direct people away from medical groups in Mexico. It's very unclear which doctors you may have accused over the last two years and your the nature of your association with these professionals. Some doctors you are claiming not to have accused have lost business due to these "warnings."

I was advised today, on another forum, that people avoided Dr. Kelly due to your accusations, but I understand now that you didn't mean to accuse him. Is this true?

Are you asserting that you do not have a personal relationship with one of the founding members of this website? Is that relationship predatory? Could such a relationship be considered predatory since you are a patient, as well? If I were he, I'd stay well away from someone with such a long list of accusations.

Do you mean that you did not work for a competing doctor at the time of the "discovery" of the first incident? Do you mean that you referred many patients to the doctor for whom a patient died? Are you certain that you didn't take issue with the death of that patient until AFTER you were dismissed from employment?

Didn't you seek medical treatment from the doctor to whom you referred patients but now discredit? Didn't you, in fact, seek medical treatment in Tijuana AFTER you posted that it was extremely dangerous to do so?

Are you sure you didn't "find out" about a personal relationship of Omar's IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING being denied for medical treatment by one of the medical teams you've accused? Could it be possible that this denial comes, in part, from medical professionals fearing getting involved with someone so inclined toward slander and defamation?

I'm curious as to why, and perhaps you can answer this... Why would women randomly seek you out to confide their deepest secrets if they'd felt victimized? I mean, I'm struggling to understand how it comes to be that a coordinator who is in no way connected to a medical team becomes the personal confidant of SO MANY slighted or victimized patients. Can you tell me how, was it seven you said?, how did these women come to find you to express this very personal experience of feeling "taken advantage of?"

and more recently...

Why do these long time users, these "victims" with whom you've gotten so close, have accounts that don't reflect being long term users of this site? Do you know all 7 of these women personally through another forum or another avenue of life?

I'm still wondering why you answered another person's post in the first person. You can scroll back through the comments, I'm sure if you need to refresh your memory.

Oh for God's sakes! SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Attacking Omar means your attacking Dr Illan. Your all low lifes with nothing better to do. Grow the f**k up. Get a life elsewhere. Dr Illan is a great surgeon. This thread is going to scare so many away...

Yeah, let's chat about Illan. He's a cheap surgeon, he cuts corners to make cheap surgery. He is unsafe... yeah, I wrote it! He is a chit, inexperienced surgeon in a chit city doing cheap surgery.

Shut up for God's sake.

[ChelceyA 30]

Okay, I'm just going to say it as it is...

Dudes... and by that I mean those that are the fundamentalist supporters?

You're all Morons...

No, seriously, you are.

If you cannot grasp the basic tenets of what has been said.... and really absorb, understand and answer all the charges laid (which were not against you, initially), then frankly, I'm back to the 'moron' comparison.

You make me want to bash my head against a wall, because whether or not you realise it? You're behaving like a gaggle of witches.

What I'd like to know, is what, exactly, has this man got on you? Naked photos? Film footage? I cannot believe that rationally minded human beings would behave this way - unless, the accused, has something that would blow your lives apart.....

Wanna have a chat about that?

Groupies have no need, they just are. They typically have unhealthy relationships in all aspects of their lives.

And all of a sudden you newbies appear and seem to know more than I know in many many months here? I just worry about a predator with God know what STDs who preys on vulnerable women who go to MX to save a few bucks. The ranters for Omar are either related to him, involved with him, or have something to gain.

Yeah, I have to call you on this one. The economy is bad in case you haven't noticed. Many go to Mexico for very safe surgery so they might have a chance to live their lives. Shame on you for downing basic medical care.

Susan, can you take this to a private forum for discussion? I am nauseated by stupidity. The same thing can be accomplished by weeding out the Jim Jones Koolaid mentality/Omar love groupies.

Perhaps you are unaware, you can choose not to open and read an 80 page thread. Shocking! I know!

I have been reading this thread from the beginning .. I'm not new , I didn't have surgery in Mexico.. All this fighting is crazy... All that matters is that people know to be careful of Omar's advances and not to fall into a relationship with him either .. I don't believe Susan or anyone ever said "dont go to dr illan" ?? If you want to go then go. He seems like a good surgeon.. Just go with the knowledge of Omar's antics. Simple as that .. That's what this post is for .. A warning about Omar. Yes if Dr Illan knows this information it's kind of sad on his part , but that doesn't affect his operating skills!!!

Okay. I'll write it. Don't go to Dr. Illan. He's a cheap ass surgeon in a crap and dangerous city who cuts corners to make for... cheap ass surgery. Seriously, you don't question how he cuts corners to make cheap surgery? Really?

I agree. An employer is responsible for whom he employs, and in MX maybe there is no accountability. I will not try to save $ by going to MX, I would rather eat grass.

Feel free to graze, hundreds of thousands of people to go Mexico for medical and dental care ANNUALLY. If you had a choice to go to a good surgeon in MX or die, what would you choose? Seriously, stop being an ass. It doesn't look good on you.

I will not give names. I have talked with another surgeon who has FACS next to his name.

Oh okay I thought it was based on fact. I checked and every surgeon listed with Kaiser WLA had MD after their name. Maybe its different in other places or locations. I guess that is a good selling point for surgeons if you have to solicit patients.

Seriously? You really don't get it? MD means they graduated from college. The rest are affiliations. I would damn sure hope Kaiser surgeons graduated from college.

GAWD!

[NothingUpMySleeve 244]

Howdy. I am a long-time team illan poster, and I've referred two other people to him. For what it's worth, Omar was helpful to us, though I do think these stories are gross.

At any rate, I am concerned about the post saying that Dr. Illan cuts corners for surgery. I am not being snarky at all; I would genuinely like to know if this is true and if I should be concerned. He seemed very thorough in discussing his technique, supplies, etc., but are you aware of anything different?

[ChelceyA 30]

All ive been told is that bariatric surgeons should have one or more of the following...

FRACS, FASMBD, FICS, SAGES, FACS after their name. Dr Illan has MD which in NZ means he is only a medical doctor. Basic surgeries only.

Shall we discuss affiliations? Board certification means someone passed a test in their field of specialty. I find it nothing less than amusing that nobody has brought of the fact that Mexico has board certification in bariatrics and is Dr. Illan board certified? Why no, he is not. If your Mexican surgeon is not board certified in bariatrics, do not go to him. It's really basic common sense. Something that is clearly lacking in this thread. Who would want to be a bariatric surgeon and not board certified? I'll tell you who. Someone who has yet been able to pass the darn test!

FACS Fellow, American College of Surgeons

FRACS Fellow of Royal Australasian College of Surgeons

FASMBD. Couldn't find this

FICS Fellow of the International College of Surgeons

SAGES Society of American Gastrointestinal and Endoscopic Surgeons (Los Angeles, CA)

Some doctors won't list all their associations. You may need to ask.

I know that these organizations' names sound impressive.

But they are not certifying or licensing organizations. Instead, they are professional associations -- which doctors may elect to join or not. Yes, they sound lovely -- and I'm sure they do add value. However, having these letters after your name mostly means you enjoy socializing with other doctors, that you may have (little p) political aspirations within your profession, and that you and your spouse would like to take a tax-deductible vacation annually at wherever these organizations hold their annual convention.

Again, I'm not dis'ing the organizations. But doctors join them voluntarily. They are not mandatory in any way. Nor are they required by any medical licensing organization. They are professional / social organizations.

These organizations are similar to the American Bar Association (for lawyers), the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (for CPAs), and the American Institute of Architects (for architects).

Board certified is the exception to the rule.

Fellow of the American Board of Medical Specialties.

So it's more than just letters or a social organization, it actually does require some kind of evaluation to be able to use this title. (edited to credit Wikipedia for the above information. I found similar on other websites, but the explanation was more consolidated here)

Are the letters required to preform surgery?

To "preform" surgery? No. to "preform" safe surgery, yes.

[LindafromFlorida 1,542]

 

Edited July 25, 2014 by LindafromFlorida

[ChelceyA 30]

Howdy. I am a long-time team illan poster, and I've referred two other people to him. For what it's worth, Omar was helpful to us, though I do think these stories are gross.

At any rate, I am concerned about the post saying that Dr. Illan cuts corners for surgery. I am not being snarky at all; I would genuinely like to know if this is true and if I should be concerned. He seemed very thorough in discussing his technique, supplies, etc., but are you aware of anything different?

You have to get down to basics. How much does it cost the surgeon to do a surgery. The cost of staples alone is astonishing. The cost of the hospital, the cost of paid and trained staff.. you can't do it for $3500. It is impossible. Surgeons that do cheap surgery tend to use black market supplies, veterinary equipment from China, etc.

You get what you pay for, that is the bottom line. You want cheap surgery? You take risks. We are talking common sense here.