This topic was brought up in the HPV vaccine thread, and I wanted to get everybody's opinion on it.

I think that sex before marriage is not necessarily a bad thing. I think it, along with living together, gives couples a chance to see what their marriage might be like. Sex is a huge part of marriage, and bad sex can undermine a marriage, IMO. Plus, it helps you figure out if what you are feeling is true love or just plain lust.

I personally believe that the push to make teens abstain until marriage may actually be contributing to the high divorce rate. If people think that they have to be married to have sex, I think they might rush into a marriage because they might not know the difference between lust and love. Take my former roommate, for example. She and her boyfriend dated for 4 years before they got married. To my knowledge, they were both virgins when they married. They separated within 6 months of marrying and were officially divorced the day before their first anniversary. I really believe that the disgrace in having sex before marriage and living together (he was Mormon) contributed to the failure of their marriage. I think that if they had been allowed to see what each other was truly like, apart from dates, they wouldn't have gotten married.

Those stats make me sad.

Me, too. I believe that if your relationship is bad enough that you are turning to other people, it is time to end it.

Lisa, I agree. As I read that list, I was like "Yup, me too!"

Me, too. I believe that if your relationship is bad enough that you are turning to other people, it is time to end it.

I think I'm a bit on the fence with this one. The lifestyle is NOT for me personally, but I know a couple that has been married for over 10 years and are swingers. They have children and contend that their marriage is very happy and secure, and it certainly seems that is true. They just don't see marriage as meaning "you only have sex with him/her for the rest of your life", they see it as "you're the one he/she comes home to at night, and loves". Perhaps they have a better than average ability to differentiate between love and sex. And I think it depends on why you're doing the turning. Sometimes one partner really, really wants to experience a particular event, and the other partner really, really does not want to do it, nor do they want to "prevent" the other from having the experience.

I really could argue it both ways.

I would not cheat on my husband and I am confident my husband would not cheat on me. At the same time, I know that I am capable of having sex be nothing more than sex, and walking away with no emotional attachment.

I don't consider "swinging" to be cheating, because it isn't happening behind one spouse's back and is hopefully occuring with the permission of the other spouse. I mean, I don't think it would be for me, but whatever floats their boat, I guess. To me, cheating is done without the knowledge or permission of the other spouse.

YeeHaw, you're not alone. But let me get this straight.

You never had to worry about STDs or a teen pregnancy.

You never compare your husband to other men in bed, and you never have to worry about him comparing you to other women.

You never wish that you hadn't given your body and a piece of your soul to someone else.

You never think about old boyfriends while you're having sex, and you never worry that your husband is thinking about old girlfriends.

You never (or rarely) worry that your husband might be cheating on you because you know he has the self-control and ability to stay true.

You're never scared to open yourself up fully, emotionally and physically, to your husband because you know he's fully committed to you.

You enjoy your sex life and it just keeps getting better.

That sounds pretty awesome to me!

And that was a pretty awesome post, Gadgetlady!!

I don't consider "swinging" to be cheating, because it isn't happening behind one spouse's back and is hopefully occuring with the permission of the other spouse. I mean, I don't think it would be for me, but whatever floats their boat, I guess. To me, cheating is done without the knowledge or permission of the other spouse.

I agree, to me "cheating" is doing it behind your spouses back.

We've talked about infidelity a fair amount, because my dad cheated on my mom. My "rule" is that if DH wouldn't do it in front of me, or tell me about it, then I consider it cheating on our relationship.

I have been happily married for 20 years and both my wife and I had sex before we married, together and with other partners. My marriage is the second best thing that has happened to me. (Having my children is the best)

I do not regrett any of the sex I had before I was married, as a matter of fact I am very happy I had it and would not change a thing if I had to do things over again. Sex is great and I enjoy it every time I do it but it is not always such a big deal. I have never nor would I ever consider having an affair but my reason for this is because it would betray a trust I have with my wife. Sex, to me, is not some sacred act between a Husband and a wife it is rather an incredibly pleasent act that is greatly increased when enjoyed with another human being.

As a male however I understand that females take it more seriously on an emotional level so I don't want to belittle those feelings.

There is an old saying that I agree with.

"Sex alone isn't everything but sex with somebody esle comes pretty close"

As a male however I understand that females take it more seriously on an emotional level so I don't want to belittle those feelings.

Sex, for me, wasn't always emotional. Making love is. For me, there is a difference.

I have been happily married for 20 years and both my wife and I had sex before we married, together and with other partners. My marriage is the second best thing that has happened to me. (Having my children is the best)

I do not regrett any of the sex I had before I was married, as a matter of fact I am very happy I had it and would not change a thing if I had to do things over again. Sex is great and I enjoy it every time I do it but it is not always such a big deal. I have never nor would I ever consider having an affair but my reason for this is because it would betray a trust I have with my wife. Sex, to me, is not some sacred act between a Husband and a wife it is rather an incredibly pleasent act that is greatly increased when enjoyed with another human being.

As a male however I understand that females take it more seriously on an emotional level so I don't want to belittle those feelings.

There is an old saying that I agree with.

"Sex alone isn't everything but sex with somebody esle comes pretty close"

Actually, although I am a female, I agree with TommyO about this business of sex. I think that it is simply an incredibly pleasant act, one which can have additional dimensions when engaged in by an emotionally committed pair. Indeed, sex can initially serve as the 'paste' which cements a new pair bond but it is my experience that after you have been doing it for a long time with the same old same old it kind of recedes in importance and becomes boring.

I have been in monogamous relationships before and I am presently in one of long standing (more than 20 years now) but it is my experience that some of the shallow recreational sex that I had as a single woman was some of the best sex that I ever had.

Though I adore my mate and hope that we are in this for the long haul, I sure am pleased that I misspent my youth.

YeeHaw, you're not alone. But let me get this straight.

You never had to worry about STDs or a teen pregnancy.

You never compare your husband to other men in bed, and you never have to worry about him comparing you to other women.

You never wish that you hadn't given your body and a piece of your soul to someone else.

You never think about old boyfriends while you're having sex, and you never worry that your husband is thinking about old girlfriends.

You never (or rarely) worry that your husband might be cheating on you because you know he has the self-control and ability to stay true.

You're never scared to open yourself up fully, emotionally and physically, to your husband because you know he's fully committed to you.

You enjoy your sex life and it just keeps getting better.

That sounds pretty awesome to me!

I would disagree with some of the above points, Gadget. I have had considerable sexual experience and yet two of the men with whom I was most in love were not skilled lovers. It didn't matter. I loved them. I just loved them. When you love someone that individual is the only individual who matters.

The past, though it is part of your personal history, becomes largely irrelevant. The past is past. If anything, your experience can help you spot someone who is going to give you problems in the future.

And as for your partner, it is only the insecure, obsessive and jealous individual who cannot deal with your history.

I have not found that my past experience has stopped me from loving and trusting another individual nor from receiving this in return.

As for premarital sex, for me that was a no-brainer; I never did want to get married when I was young. Nevertheless, I did get married and I have been in several serious long term relationships. Now I live happily and placidly with my common-in-law husband and have done so for over 20 years. This is a man whom I love.

Lisah, Agree 100% those are the words I was looking for, having sex and making love are two very different things.

Green I also say Hurrah for my misspent youth, I enjoy being reminded of my past, I relish all of my todays and look forward to the future. (Although I hope the future takes it's time).

If you are familiar with the celtic song "The Parting Glass" here is a verse and chorus that I truly feel describes my feelings as I take my leave at the end of the day.

The parting Glass

For All the money that ere' I spent

I spent it in good company

And all the harm that ere' I have done

Allas it was to none but me

And so It falls unto my lot

That I should rise and you should not

I will gently rise and I'll softly call

Good Night I enjoyed being with you all

I don't know if it is relevant to the topic but it is a great song. I doubt, If I were to have sung it in my youth, it would have been as well recieved after a night of sex as it was after a night spent in a pub.

Cheers

TommyO

It does all boil down to our experiences and who we are inside. I've heard a heck of a lot of people say "I wish I hadn't done [insert action here] in my youth". If you're fine with whatever you did or do or plan to do in the future, more power to you. I was simply trying to explain the freeing feeling that some of us have in our relationships.

I have a good friend who has a 10YO son. From a very early age, she taught him to "avert his eyes" whenever he saw a scantily-clad woman (at the beach, the pool, or just someone walking down the street who wasn't well covered). She told him that while he might not understand why, it was a good habit for him to develop NOW so that when he did understand, it would come naturally to him. I look at her early training and think, "That boy's going to make someone an awesome husband one day" (assuming he follows her teaching). Some of you may think the gawking and lusting and potential delving into pornography are just fine -- but for those of us who don't, what she's doing is an awesome thing. It's all a matter of perspective and values and what matters to each of us individually.

For the people who only ever shared their bodies with their spouse, it's a wonderful thing. For those who don't care how many they shared their bodies with, it's not a big deal what they did. The sad stories are the ones who DID share and wish they HADN'T. And it's especially sad when no one ever affirmed their ability not to.

Not having sex before marriage doesn't necessarily mean you are a better person, or that you have more self-control, or that you love your husband more than the women who do have sex before marriage. In many cases, it just means that you were never put in a position where you had to say "no".

I can't think of one guy I dated who didn't try to get me into bed with him (except my husband). I can say there was definitely temptation to do so. So yes, self-control does play a part -- a big one. It doesn't make me a better person, but it certainly does reflect my mindset and my committment to my values.

I dated a guy once who tried to talk me into bed with him. He told me that I was bound to have sex with someone one day so it might as well be him. He was right -- except the "someone" turned out to be my wonderful husband

I don't think there are too many people on God's green earth who have never been put in a position where they had to say "no".

When you say "sex before marriage" - are you referring only to penal pentration of the vagina? (Mmm, sounds so romantic, eh?) Seriously. Because I know an awful lot of people who participate in sexual acts, but don't consider it sex. And would wear white on their wedding day, just because the man's penis has never penetrated the vagina, regardless of how much oral/anal/tweening/MM/whatever has occured.

(MM = mutual masturbation, and "tweening" is when the penis is stimulated between some body part, e.g. breasts, butt cheeks)

And I know other people who won't do any of this, because "sex is more than penetration", and would consider oral sex the same as losing their virginity.

I think it's disingenuous to say you're a virgin or you're not having sex with someone when you've done everything but physical penetration.

Whippits (a point to Carlene) are the little cannisters of propellant used in whipped cream cans. Nitrous oxide.

Has anyone wondered why I even know about these things?

I have a friend who is a Martha Stewart clone. She even had a brief but illustrious second career as a caterer. And she actually owns one of the machines that uses Whippits (your local Starbucks has them, too). My friend's niece, now an assistant DA in the Texas Hill Country, clued us into the dark side of Whippits. I asked her if she was speaking from professional or personal experience, but she just gave me one of those looks - like "how rude of you to ask".