Hello to you all! I wasn't sure if I posted this is the right place, so forgive my duplicate entries. This is my first time here. I am so glad I have found this site and have been sitting here for the past 3 hours just reading all of your posts. I'll try and keep it short. The "big fat girl" mentioned in the title is how my 12 year old daughter describes herself on a daily basis. She is in the 6th grade and currently weighs approximately 170lbs. She has been a "big girl" since birth, always in the 95th percentile or more for her age/height. She has two brothers one older and one younger who can and do eat for 5 people and not show any of it! She has always been very active in sports and has many friends. Softball during the summer, volleyball and Basketball during the Fall and Winter. During her 4th grade year all hell broke loose and I began to realize how much her weight was affecting her in all aspects of her life. Physically, emotionally, mentally, etc. She would sneak food in her room and binge probably more then I was aware of, shopping for school clothes was a nightmare that ended almost as soon as it began, her in tears and me feeling helpless. None of the "in clothes" come in a size 18+, consequently we began to see a counselor and nutritionist.Her 5th grade year I made a decision to enroll her and her younger brother in a private school for 2 reasons.The biggest of the 2 was Everyone wears the same thing. Uniforms!! Up until the other day I thought things were going alright. Meaning she didn't bring up how "fat" she was as often or come home from school crying as much.We still had "those days" but they didn't seem to happen as often.

That all changed the other night when she totally lost control and threatened to kill herself, holding a knife to her throat in front of her younger brother who is 10. She said she didn't want to live anymore and was tired of being fat. That none of the diets "they said would work" do any good and she just wants to die!!! That made two of us. My heart broke that night and I haven't been the same since. I immediately took her to the ER and we talked with a Social worker until she calmed down. I didn't know what else to do. I have since been reading up on the lap band procedure and have been trying to find a physician that will help me and my daughter. So far all I get, is to do what we've been doing for two !*(^&!! years!!! Diet, exercise, therapy....blah,blah,blah.... H E L L O ? Are you hearing me..My 12 year old wants to DIE !!!!! When I discussed the suicidal gestures and asked about prescribing a diet aid, and antidepressants with her regular pediatrician, she had the balls to tell me that my daughter just needed to continue therapy and that she was "healthy really". HEALTHY? I'm sorry, was I describing her brother? HEALTHY? ...Ahem....Besides being overweight, asthmatic, depressed, suicidal, self esteem and body image of negative zero and increasing her risks for other problems such as heart diesease and diabetes (which runs in the family) Yeah, she's as healthy as she can possibly &!@#! be! GEEZ US! That was our last visit with her needless to say. So here I am. I can't begin to tell you all, the total despair and helplessness I feel daily. I have even thought about putting her on diet pills, but know deep down that isn't a real option and a temporary fix, but I am desperate. The temporary fix would at least be "a start" .. something she could see. Are those risks any greater then all the ones she is currently facing? I mean seriously! So here it is in a nutshell. Wondering if we'd have better luck going out of the States? Can any one out there relate to what I am going through? What my 12 year old baby is going through? Any and all replies, comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Physican referrals would be great! Thanks for listening. <!-- / message -->

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My first self-imposed diet was at age 7 which was a result of my step-grandmother calling and asking if I was 'still fat'? I was one of those kids that would bulk up and then shoot up in height…but she did not understand – she wanted a thin granddaughter. I was always tall for my age, big boned - but did not over eat until after the dieting started. I look back on the different situations where I hoarded food and still feel guilt because I could/can hear my step-grandmother's voice in the back of my head saying 'fat' with every food choice that I made. I did Weight Watchers, Herbalife, Jenny Craig, pre-measured food, strong diet pills, supervised dr. diets, MediFast, self-imposed starvation, etc. Nothing worked for the long haul.

As a teenager, the only time I felt accepted was when I was on a thin trend. I placed a lot of unnecessary value in the size of clothing that I was wearing and how popular I was with my peers. I over-extended myself academically, sports, modeling, dance, theatre, student leadership, music, etc to the point that I had mono for 4 months when I was 17. Whatever metabolism I had remaining after yo-yo dieting for all of those years was completely wiped out from that illness.<O:p

Pre-banding, I would beg my doctors to put me on diet pills to help with the cravings b/c with them - I felt in control which made me feel 'better'. I'm not recommending this path for your daughter...pre-measured foods is not always the answer...because it becomes boring after a while and that is the worst to face every day. I was told to climb stairs instead of taking the elevator, to not eat so much and exercise. When you are in complete despair and being controlled by cravings – advice like that does not help.<O:p

I disagree with the 'clear it all out' theory....deprivation results in hoarding and sneaking of food....which exacerbates the problem. We need to be able to live around that type of food and make the conscious choice to partake or not. Sure - it's easy to remove everything and say that it will not pass the doorstep again....but it is not reality of how to actually deal with the food. In fact, now - if I do not have chocolate in the house, I panic and obsess over it....but if it is here, I'm fine and I do not eat it all that often. <O:p

Through this banding journey - I discovered a website (http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm) that has really helped me understand the calorie in/calorie out theory and zig-zag dieting that I wish I would have understood a long time ago....before all of the yo-yo dieting and the suffering with the resulting depression from failure. Taking control of the calories and understanding what is honestly passing in to your mouth is what the band has taught me. You have to eat to keep your metabolism up and stay active…and starving is not the answer that I so often turned to when I needed control.<O:p

I very much feel for you and your daughter. For me, it took getting REALLY mad at me, my body and my fat to no longer want to allow it to rule my life. It is a very personal journey with many underlying currents that might influence feelings and actions. I do not know if anything I said above helps – but it is my story that lead to where I am today. I hope that she does not have the lifelong struggle that I did but it is her path that she must discover.<O:p

I wish you both the very best to find the journey that will lead your daughter to peace with her weight.

EVERS123P

My heart goes out to you and your daughter. I was an overweight child too. Some physical things you might consider:

<O:p

Be active with her. Have fun moving your body with her. Get a Frisbee. Get a ball and catcher’s mitt. Get a hackey-sack. Dance to some songs she likes and then to some you like. J Every minute she spends being active is one less minute she fills with mindless eating. One less minute she spends obsessing over her size. One more minute she feels being in control of herself. And with her already being involved in sports, she knows activity is fun!

<O:p

Make nutritious meals. Most of her eating is probably what you make, right? So make sure that those meals are as tasty and healthy as they can be. Involve her in the preparation so that she can see how easy it can be to make good, wholesome food.

<O:p

Buy mostly nutritious Snacks. I also don’t believe in throwing everything out. But do throw most of it out. Find as many substitutions as possible. Crystal Light for soda. Baked pita chips for potato chips. Help her read labels. And then save the unhealthy stuff for those few and far between, honest to goodness, cravings.

<O:p

Make it crystal clear that the whole family is changing their eating habits because it is the healthy thing to do. Not because one or two of you need to lose weight. EVERYONE should eat a healthy diet.

<O:p

Get her involved in activities that don’t focus on her body. And get her into volunteering so that she is not so inwardly focused.

<O:p

One emotional talk they could have given me would have been:

<O:p

Sit me down and say, “I love you just as you are. But I know that you don’t love yourself too much right now. And that’s because your weight is bothering you. Ok, I understand that. Being overweight is tough. So let’s turn it around. Let’s put our heads together and think of ways to help the whole family eat healthier and be more active. I have dropped the ball by not cooking healthy meals, by allowing too much unhealthy food in the house, by not protecting you from other family members’ negative talk, by not setting a good example, whatever. But I am on board now. I am totally committed to you being healthy. So I will do what I need to as a parent. And that means providing you with support: constantly promoting healthy eating, spending time talking with you, getting you thoroughly tested, helping you understand consequences, etc. But, let me tell you… being a teenager is a tough time. You will run across insecure people who will make themselves feel better by making you feel bad. Understand that this is what’s happening when they make fun of you. If they were really happy with themselves, do you think they’d spend so much time thinking about ways to hurt you? No, they’d be doing their own thing. But if you feel like your school situation is just too far gone, let’s talk about it and see what our other options are. Come and talk to me anytime about anything.

Finally, help her to understand that bodies are different. Plain and simple. And that, although it is terribly unfair, some people can eat lots of junk and still be slim and look healthy. But that ain't you! And it ain't me! Heck it isn't most people. You work with and love the body that God gave you. You may never be as small as your friends. But you can be your healthiest, fittest, trimmest self.

Just throwing this out there in the pool of ideas..

as a pre-teen, I would, on occasion, grab a Snickers Bar at the local 7-11. My Mom finally clued into the fact that this sugar high was waaaay more than my poor body could handle. I got edgy, argumentative, cried, I didn't know what was wrong, I was totally uspet about...whatever...and just felt like crap and didn't know why. I was an emotional wreck. Once we cut out the Snickers, and she had to be the one to say NO...I quit having the Snicker Fits, as my family STILL to this day refers to them, and I'm 41. They were pretty impressive.

As an adult, I had gestational diabetes with my 2nd child, and knew that diabetes was in my future if I didn't get a handle on my weight.

Anyhow, menus for Hyperactivity might be helpful, or Diabetes, or just lower sugar/lower carb diets might be super helpful with keeping her emotionally stable. Sugar just got me way out of hand.

Good luck. Keep us posted, 'kay?

I'm just thinking that if not having chocolate in the house causes someone to panic then there is a whole lot going on beyond a craving. The choices that you make as a mother for your family, what you buy from the grocery store will dictate 95% of what your family ends up eating. Obviously, you will not be making food choices for them all the time, but if you can get them turned around to healthy substitutions for unhealthy foods, they will begin to make the "right" choices on their own time as well. So many people have this love of food that goes way beyond anything healthy, and thats why we are obese, and why at least one of our children are or will be obese and our spouse probably has some junk food related problem, if not obesity, then hypertension, or high cholesterol, or high triglycerides, etc. You are NOT depriving anyone by removing junk food and simple carbs, you are SAVING them. Remember to substitute a healthy snack for each cheeto, chip, and bon bon that you toss. They might bitch and moan for a few days but they will get used to it and the new foods will become normal. Do we really need to know there is a bag of snack size snicker bars in the cupboard that we "accidentally" bought too many of at Halloween?? AND....do you ever just eat one? Even one a day?? No...I didn't think so. If not having snack foods causes you to panic its time to seek psychiatric advice. Good Luck to your sweet girl and remember you're the mom and no one has ever killed themselves over the lack of a candy bar.

So sorry to hear about your daughter. Dr. george Fielding of NYU in New york specializes in children and teens. He has been on television talking about it many times. He is my doctor now --you must call him he is the best good luck.

If it were my daughter, I'd go to a surgical consult. That's not to say I'd necessarily advocate the band for my 12 year old, but I would at least check it out with her.

My reasons would be that, first and foremost, I think almost everyone here (if not literally everyone) knows that your daughter is in for a life-long battle with her weight. I was a math major in college. When you look at the statistics on how many people can actually lose weight and keep it off without surgical intervention, it's astonishing. Almost no one can do it. (Approximately 2% of those with 50 lbs or more to lose can lose it and keep it off for ONE YEAR, so what must the numbers be for 70 years? Next to none.) If my child had diabetes, I wouldn't hesitate to get her an insulin pump if that was the best tool. I see the band as the same thing -- the best tool for the job of lifetime weight management. I don't see any reason to delay solely because of age if (and only if) it is what my child wanted. Thus, I'd at least go to a seminar. Make sure she knows that it's just an option and that you want her to know about it. Not that you expect her to have it, or that you want her to. It has to be her decision. You're just informing her.

I don't know where you're located, but Kelly Ann is correct. Dr. Fielding at NYU is one of, I believe, two doctors in the U.S. that bands 12 year olds. His office number is (212) 263-3166. Ask to speak to Tammy. The other U.S. practice that I know bands adolescents is NWWLS in Washington State. The Mexican surgeons mentioned already are beyond excellent as well if that is closer/easier for you.

Not knowing your daughter and her maturity level, I can't say whether it's the right thing for your family. I just think that for all of the wonderful advice on this thread, there hasn't been enough talk about the fact that getting banded really might be a great option for her.

Best of luck to your family.

You've gotten some really good responses, from many people that were once in your daughter's shoes!

My only tidbit, is to discuss options when your daughter is calm and in a good mood. That is the best way to have a conversation with them. See what she wants, would she like to join a gym? Or does she want you to get rid of the junk? Ask what bothers her. Is she teased?

At one point, when my son was 12 years old, he wanted to kill himself. We tried to give him as much love as we could and then we asked him if he wanted to go see a counselor to help him. He agreed. He was having social problems. The 12-14 years age is very difficult plus they can go heavy on the emotions. It's gradually worked itself out, due to skills and maturity.

Take care. Shawn

Because of the age of your daughter, her activity level, and her mood swings. I would seriously take a look into what one of the earlier posters mentioned...PCOS (Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome).

Unless your doctor is aware of this, and most are not, it's a condition that is best diagnosed by an Endocrinologist. The problem with this condition, is that many doctors don't look for it until a woman is ready to begin a family, and is having some problems. While the condition actually begins with the start of puberty and gets worse with time. Catching it early and properly managing it can help prevent some of the later problems that it can lead to.

Here are a few symptoms, either by themselves can be a sign of PCOS or other conditions. The more that a woman has, the more likely she could have PCOS. Some of these are hard to tell, because of her age. Many teenagers experience them just because that's the stage in life they are at. There are some, that I'm not going to list, that are based upon blood work. Ranges can be high normal to slightly above normal, but be too much for your body to handle. Which is why I strongly suggest an endocrinologist (someone who specializes in this, versus a regular family doctor who would just over look a slightly elevated result).

Puberty beginning early: menstruation at 9 or 10, early physical development.

Extreme emotional highs and lows

Weight gain (especially if concentrated around the middle/stomach area)

Painful or irregular menstruation

Dark/rough Patches of skin (neck, elbows, underarms, inner thighs)

Depression (leads back to hormonal imbalance)

Poor memory

Male pattern hair growth/loss

Adult acne (for those besides OP that may be reading this)

...and more.

There are several web sites that discuss this, and some contradicting theories. One that I know of that is fairly informative is Soulcysters.com, and they do have a teen section. You can do a search on PCOS or Stein-Leventhal Syndrome to learn more.

I will admit, though, that from the moment you started discussing your daughter, this is what I thought.

___________

Chris

I am so sorry your daughter is having such a hard time. I was slightly overweight at your her age, but my mother reacted very badly in my case. First, my mom was obsessed with her weight when I was growing up. She would not eat for 2 days if she gained a few lbs and expected me to do the same. My family on both sides have obesity problems, so I know part of mine is genetic. However, my mom took me to a doctor and had me put on diet pills at your daughter's age and I think that was a huge mistake. I lost weight and stayed thin through high school by starving myself most of the time, but I started gaining weight shortly after my daughter was born. She's 33 now, but I still have the weight problem. I am not banded yet, but I have my consultation early next year.

I do have some concerns about your daughter though. Someone mentioned they thought she may be bipolar, formerly known as manic depressive disorder. Unfortunately, they will not diagnose bipolar disorder until she gets older. I found it interesting that this happens about once a month. This could definitely be PCOS or just PMS. However, suicidal ideations at any age should be taken very seriously. I agree you did the right thing when you took her to the ER, but I am concerned about possible chemical imbalance in her brain and clinical depression. You didn't mention her other habits such as, if she is really messy, if she has to have everything done in a ritualistic manner, etc. Those are signs of obessive-compulsive disorder. She may need to see a psychiatrist along with her therapist. I also believe the previous advice about seeing and endocronologist is vital, so ask for a referral to the endocronologist from her PCP. As active as she is, there many definitely be a medical problem here. Even though it was never diagnosed, I believe I had PSOS and had to have a hysterectomy when I was 28. No chance for more children, so I have an only child.

Before even considering the band or any other type of surgery, I would see all of these other types of physicians to rule out medical problems. I worked with another nurse who had gastric bypass surgery when she was a teenager and later discovered she had thyroid disease. After she was treated for the thyroid disease, she had a difficult time maintaining a healthy weight. So, please please have the medical conditions ruled out before considering surgery of any kind.

You have already read all of the posts about where to shop for her, hair, makeup, etc., so those should also be done. As a RN, I'm very concerned about her health issues. I will keep you in my prayers. Please keep us updated. We really do care!

Joan

I also feel your daughter's pain. I was teased in school for my weight and always felt the outcast.

I have to say though that it sounds like your daughter is suffering from severe depression and that needs to be dealt with before you even consider a weight loss procedure. If she's not in the right headspace to handle what is needed to do for success, she'll end up failing at this as well, which could cause more harm than good.

My suggestion is to find a good child psychiatrist to help her understand her value and worth before focusing on the weight. She needs to know that her size is not what defines her.

Poor baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've already gotten a ton of great advice. What I would add is (ok, I'm a diet book junkie) the Dr Phil diet book has a diet book out for teens (I think his son Jay wrote it) and also If you could read the books by Martha Beck "The Four Day Win" and "THe Joy Diet" and share with her some of the ideas in those books to tackle some of the mind issues. Good child shrinks are hard to find, but if they are supportive and don't make her feel freakish, that would be great. I don't think meds are the answer for her because some of the side effects an make you feel crummy and are poorly tested on kids anyway.

Good luck and be sure to post to let us know how she is doing!

Hello: I read all the posts through page two, and I just wanted to add my two cents to the pot.

Lots and Lots of good advise has been given...... I along with MANY here was the "fat" girl with the skinny sister. I started my period at age 9 and hid it from everyone including my mom for 3 years, because I was mortified of being so different. I played sports while young but was always one of the biggest girls on the team..... On the outside I was self confident, popular, involved... but on the inside I was miserable ALWAYS aware of my fat.... crushed when talked about or rejected.. because I started my period so early I WAS EXTREMELY HORMONAL... I would have major mood swings and since no one but me knew I was on my period.. I just was reguarded as a terror. (this is me thinking back on those years)

Later at a realitively young age of 22 I was diagnosed with hypothyroid, as a matter of fact the endocrinologist made me come in 3 times because he thought the test was done wrong due to the fact of me having the thryroid of an 80 year old man... he was suprised I was functioning. Also I was diagnosed with PCOS.... both factors make it very hard for me to lose weight... and slimfast.. well I GAINED on it... because of the sugar.

Eating Low Carb is the only way I can lose weight, and once I'm banded it will be THE way I continue to eat... and most of the stuff in your pantry is LOADED with carbs, including the fruit. Someone mentioned the MEXICAN doctor who does the band on teenagers, and my doc is working with a 16 year old now (in Kansas).......... the band is NOT easy, NOT a quick fix, and she would still be able to gain weight if she continued to eat the crap.. which as any inventive person can soon find.... that is why she will need to be emotionaly ready to do it........

I agree with others who say to BUILD her up from the inside.. she needs the self esteem, but also she needs to find something that will help her to shed some pounds.. enough that she sees the difference and feels the power of having control, and I'm betting that if she cut down the SUGAR... (ALL FORMS OF SUGAR) she would start losing...... and go check out those trendy clothes sites.... a girl DOES need some cool stuff to fit in even if It may be a little pricey. Most of all GOOD LUCK

oh and I might mention... I was infertile, (both hypo and PCOS) factors... I was blessed at the age of 33 with a child, due to following a LC eating plan..... all this makes me more at risk for things like breast cancer.. so getting her checked out now is vital........ I hope some of what I said helps a bit.

Oh my heart breaks for you! As the "fat" kid my whole life as well I can remember going clothes shopping with friends and lying I had no money to buy clothes just to hide the fact that nothing came in my size in the stores they shopped in. I remember being 12 years old and weighing 200 lbs and being called a whale by my twin sister. I too was very active played 3 sports a year etc etc. I can remember as far back as 5 or 6 having my moms friends comment on how i was built like a brick sh*t house...not exactly what a 5 year old needs to hear.

My only advise I can give is maybe to join Weight Watchers together as she unfortunetly is too young for the band. By a walking tape like walk away the pounds and do it together.

I wish my mom had helped me when I was young...I probably was at the weight I was at before my banding because no one ever admitted I had a weight problem.

I can only suggest you do this together because having someone support you makes such a difference.

CHANGE DOCTORS....suicide is SERIOUS!!!!! Any professional who brushes that off is completely out of line. When we are that unhappy about our bodies/image depression follows suit.

I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers and I hope you (and the rest of your family) can pull through this and give your baby girl the support she needs.

My heart breaks for you and your daughter. It is something moms cant control and that sucks for us. It is harder to be the mom than we thought when our mom journey started. You are a great mom to go to such measures for your daughter- BIG HUG!!!

You mentioned your sons are smaller and can eat a lot, I have and son and 2 daughters my son has always and will always be able to eat more than the girls just like hubby can eat more that me and be thin, that a fact in our house, I had to accept that and not compare to them.

I TOTALLY agree with the ladies that said self esteem is SOOO important. a friends 13 yrold daughter went thru same wight issues kids teasing ect. My 17 yr daughter is same size, so we had clothes try on night to show tayla that she is cute and can wear cute clothes. Her mom went to walmart and target because " they have clothes to fit her" but they didn;t fit, she went to the "fat chick" dept and wore old lady clothes - for a 13 yr old- she needed gap, old navy, trend, ect. We gave Tayla lots of clothes that she loved felt were trendy and in style.

Take your daughter shopping or have a younger but older than her friend take her, get her hair done all those great ideas mentioned above and watch her. Does she stand taller, her shoulders back. When she feels good about herself those "fat days" will be less and less often. We all feel better when you look better to ourselves. even new hair do's lift the spirits of most.

ANd hey, get yourself a new "do" too sounds like mom needs a hug too!

Good luck, and stay strong these kids will kill us!

I would sit down with your daughter and have her talk to you about what's going on, and have her make decisions with you on how to fix it. So that she feels like she's in control.

Schooling: Ask her if she'd rather be homeschooled for awhile.

Depression: Do not put her on anti-depressents. They will make her suicidal. And that's the last thing she needs. Talk to a homeopathic doctor about some natural mood eveners. Like St. John's Wort or Valerian.

Sleeping: Ask her how she's sleeping. If she's having problems sleeping, that could explain a lot.

Appetite Suppressant: If you feel a need for this, try the "natural" ones. Dexatrim makes a natural suppressant that's only green tea and caffeine, but it works. And it won't hop her up the way some of the prescription meds will.

Diet: Jenny Craig. Right now, you want to take her food choices out of both of your hands. Put her on Jenny Craig, she can pick out her own food within the menu plan. Then, what you can do to support that, is to cook the same meal for the rest of your family, and serve it on plates. So on her plate is the Jenny Craig portion, on their plates is the portion you've cooked. That will make her feel like she's not standing out so much.

Exercise: Ask her what she likes to do. Does she like to go walking? Ride horses? Set time aside every day to do this with her.

Health: Right now, she's still young and healthy. I know you just want her to be a healthy adult, but you can't have your focus here right now. Let it all be about her and what she wants. Support her because she wants it. Not because you think she's fat, or you're worried that she might have a health catastrophe. That's a lot to put on a little girl who's already hypersensitive about her weight.

Do not reward her with food. Sounds odd, I know, but my dad used to reward me with food and tell me he just wanted me to be healthy. Healthy means nothing to her right now. She wants to be popular, to be loved, to have friends.

Drastic Measures: She is not old enough for drastic, surgical measures right now. Her body is not done growing. That's why you won't find a doctor to support you in this.

Self-Image: Make sure you're not playing into the negative self-image. Reinforce to her how beautiful she is, how special she is, how wonderful she is, and what a great life she's going to have - even if it doesn't seem like that right now. Ask her to trust you, just a little bit longer.

And then make the dieting process as fun as you can for her. Incorporate her Jenny Craig into your own meals, play games instead of watching TV. Don't make a big deal about clothes shopping. If she fits into adult-sized clothes, there are stores (like Lane Bryant) that sell stylish plus-sized clothing.

I feel for you. My baby has been in the 90th percentile of height/weight since she's been born. I know I'll be going through the same thing. But I also know that she's going to end up being 6 ft tall, at the rate that she's growing.

Do you remember how tall your baby was when she was two? If you do, double that, and that should be her adult height. (At least, that's what I hear). Which might make her feel better.