Sigh... stall...

[ouroborous 519]

So from last week to this week, I lost -- nothing. It's very frustrating, because even when I'm NOT tracking my calories, I'm still eating less than half of what I used to eat. I know, I know, it could be a plateau, it could be Water weight, weekly weigh-ins are probably still too frequent.

What makes it more frustrating is that I've been feeling really sick lately. There's something... off... about my food schedule. Some of you may know that I had been really tired and a little depressed, and complaining about that. I even got the doc to prescribe an antidepressant. But I never took it because I am still sort of convinced that the problem is sleep-related (my apnea is acting up) or nutritional, NOT general depression.

Yesterday, I discovered that it is definitely nutritional. I've been trying to go about 2-3 hours between eating, but I discovered that when I do that, especially by the end of the day, I get sort of lethargic, sleepy, and blue! However, if I eat every hour or so, I feel much, much better. My girlfriend even commented that it was like turning on a switch... I was tired and grumpy and unpleasant, and then I had some apple slices with Peanut Butter, and woke right up to my normal chipper self. So SOMETHING is amiss nutritionally.

But that's frustrating, because I'm not losing weight! It's not like I'm pigging out. Even if I don't track my calories at all, because of the sleeve's restriction there's no way I could eat more than 1200-1300 calories per day (and that would be really pushing it, it's probably closer to 1000-1100). Most days last week, at work, I stayed at 600-800 net calories. For reference, before my SWAG is that I was eating around 3000-3500 calories per day, and maintaining around 330 lbs. Now, at "only" 48 lbs down, apparently I'm maintaining at significantly less than half those calories. It's just not fair!

So now I'm stuck, not losing weight, and discovering that in order to not feel sick and lethargic and sluggish, I have to eat more. ARGH! I want to at LEAST cross the 50 lbs mark. Is that too much to ask for a guy who was technically at least 130 lbs. overweight?

Can you tell how frustrating this is for me?

Edit: I'm about 7 weeks postop. I don't know when the usual "stalls" happen...

Edited June 28, 2010 by ouroborous

[sweetie333 3]

Trust me and your sleeve..It will just work! You are in too much hurry. You are only 7 weeks post-operative. I am 8 monthes out and I am still losing! and I do cheat sometimes... I am approaching my goal weight, only ten more pounds to lose although people say I look great that way but I want to lose ten more pounds cuz only then I shall feel perfect.

I have been through all your doubts and desperation but looking back, I have to say that was all none sense. It will really work but some patience! we have not gained all these pounds over night. I assure you after one year from now, you will be a different person so cheer up:)

[Jane_J 117]

Hi Orou, Stalls happen at various stages, they did to me. Sweetie was right in her advice. I thought when I was losing in the earlier phases that the toxins and hormones that were fat soluble I had accumulated over the years were being released as the fat got burned. Remember things like DDT traces get stored in the fat and they must have some effect as they get released. Your body is getting used to the new regime too. At least you don't have the lady hormones, I felt quite ragey at times, but that has calmed down now.

Try to stop stressing and focus on other things.

Jane x

[LAN2k 18]

You are very early out Ouro and have lost a significant amount of weight already. Before a year out you will likely have reached goal! The energy thing is something you are grappling well with. Apple slices with almond/peanut butter or whatever as long as it's good nutrition your on the right track. I am happy you are not too quick to take the meds...good for you! However I find that a .05 Klonopin will sometimes relax me just enough to help with over apprehension. I've had month long stalls and then suddenly I'm down 5lbs. Try to think healthy nutrition for your body and get on the scale every other week maybe. Hang in there, I wish weight loss was my only concern since being sleeved.

[Happy Destiny 0]

Don't feel so bad! I can top you in the self pity dept. LOL I have not lossed again this week I stalled for almost two weeks and gained 2 lbs that time and then finally lost 4. Now I'm stuck again. I have been charting my food but still to no avail. Come on weight loss!!!!

[thinoneday 445]

So from last week to this week, I lost -- nothing. It's very frustrating, because even when I'm NOT tracking my calories, I'm still eating less than half of what I used to eat. I know, I know, it could be a plateau, it could be Water weight, weekly weigh-ins are probably still too frequent.

What makes it more frustrating is that I've been feeling really sick lately. There's something... off... about my food schedule. Some of you may know that I had been really tired and a little depressed, and complaining about that. I even got the doc to prescribe an antidepressant. But I never took it because I am still sort of convinced that the problem is sleep-related (my apnea is acting up) or nutritional, NOT general depression.

Yesterday, I discovered that it is definitely nutritional. I've been trying to go about 2-3 hours between eating, but I discovered that when I do that, especially by the end of the day, I get sort of lethargic, sleepy, and blue! However, if I eat every hour or so, I feel much, much better. My girlfriend even commented that it was like turning on a switch... I was tired and grumpy and unpleasant, and then I had some apple slices with Peanut Butter, and woke right up to my normal chipper self. So SOMETHING is amiss nutritionally.

But that's frustrating, because I'm not losing weight! It's not like I'm pigging out. Even if I don't track my calories at all, because of the sleeve's restriction there's no way I could eat more than 1200-1300 calories per day (and that would be really pushing it, it's probably closer to 1000-1100). Most days last week, at work, I stayed at 600-800 net calories. For reference, before my SWAG is that I was eating around 3000-3500 calories per day, and maintaining around 330 lbs. Now, at "only" 48 lbs down, apparently I'm maintaining at significantly less than half those calories. It's just not fair!

So now I'm stuck, not losing weight, and discovering that in order to not feel sick and lethargic and sluggish, I have to eat more. ARGH! I want to at LEAST cross the 50 lbs mark. Is that too much to ask for a guy who was technically at least 130 lbs. overweight?

Can you tell how frustrating this is for me?

Edit: I'm about 7 weeks postop. I don't know when the usual "stalls" happen...

I haven't lost in one month. . . stay the same. . .then thought i would try something different and went back to day 1, Clear liquids, Soups, sf Jello, Protein shakes, etc. . just like day 1 . . . guess what??? Gained 3 freakin pounds over the weekend. . .now go figure???? Probably Water weight, yup thats it. . .and i worked like a sob in the yard all weekend in 98F heat! so i am just continuing for this entire week and on friday will see whats up. . .but i can tell you one thing, it's working that carb monster, not craving as much carbs anymore. . .are you diabetic? This could be a problem? Call the doc and find out whats going on if your not. . good luck

[wannalise 15]

The section where you mentioned that its like turning a switch on...Have you had bloodwork done yet to ensure that you aren't deficient in any areas. Deficiency can do a wide variety of things to you hormonally. You really are doing great! Good luck!!!!

[ouroborous 519]

The section where you mentioned that its like turning a switch on...Have you had bloodwork done yet to ensure that you aren't deficient in any areas. Deficiency can do a wide variety of things to you hormonally. You really are doing great! Good luck!!!!

Yeah, I've considered that. My next bloodwork isn't scheduled for a month (actually it'll be close to two months before I get the results). When you're feeling cruddy, two months is a long time!

Here's what I do know. Before the surgery, my bloodwork showed that nutritionally I was fine in almost every area. My folate and Iron were a little high, but that was about it. Because my Iron was high, the nut. recommended that I not supplement with iron, however since I was nervous about going to basically zero iron, I'm taking one bariatric iron chewable per week. I talked to the nut. about that and she's fine with it.

I am not diabetic, nor have I ever been. I was worried about it (my dad has diabetes, under control, and given my weight it was just a matter of time), so I bought a blood sugar tester, but my sugar has never even been close to bad. My doctor's bloodwork confirms this. So I'm definitely not diabetic; however, that doesn't mean I can't be temporarily hypoglycemic or whatever.

Every day I take two Bariatric Advantage chewable multis (morning/night), one sublingual B12 (don't know dosage), one 1000 IU Vitamin D (hmm, just realized, I've cut my D in half since the surgery, maybe I should add another D in the evening), four 250 mg chewable Calcium citrates (split over the day), and four 125 mg chewable Omega 3's (split over the day). I also take a male support supplement that contains some herbs and basically lots of zinc and Vitamin E (not toxic doses, but high doses). I take 40 mg of omeprazole per day, and some antacids as needed.

My eating is sporadic, I know that. During the work day, my schedule is much more structured. On the weekends, I can go 3-4 hours (or longer!) between meals. It's not wise, I know, but I forget. Also lately I've been sort of neglectful of my Water. I don't think I'm dehydrated, but I have had a few days where I've only gotten about 20-40 oz of Water in.

I've been good on Protein, usually 90-100 g per day. Carbs have averaged around 80-100 g per day (per the nut. I shouldn't bother counting them, but still, LiveStrong counts them for me). Calories during the work week are pretty constant, from 600-800 net calories per day (800-1000 gross, but my nut. says to subtract out my exercise calories, so I do). On the weekend, calories vary wildly, from maybe as low as 400 if I forget to eat, to 1200 or so if my girlfriend and I go out for dinner.

I'm not feeling nauseous or anything. I get a little dizzy when I stand up, but I think my blood pressure is MUCH much lower than before my sleeve (I used to run a resting BP of around 130/90, now it's about 120/70, and my resting heart rate has gone from about 90 bpm to about 60 bpm (!)).

The feeling I get is just sort of run down. I feel tired -- physically tired... fall asleep in the chair tired -- in the middle of the day. I never used to have that happen. I also get blue and depressed, but it tracks *exactly* with my fatigue; if I eat and the fatigue goes away, the blues go away instantly (which is why I'm not taking the antidepressants; I'm not convinced that general depression is the root problem, and I don't want to sign on for a six month course of Wellbutrin if this is just a nutritional thing).

My sleep is okay, but not great. My sleep doc has prescribed a new auto-titrating CPAP that should be better able to track my pressure needs so that I shouldn't have to get a new sleep study every month. I will pick that up tomorrow. Because I'm a sorta geeky guy, I purchased a recording SpO2 meter (the finger clip thing that measures your blood oxygen; it's a cheap way to look for apneas/hypopneas during the night). During my tests so far, my O2 sat hasn't dropped below 92-95% (which is fine), and my pulse rate never spiked above 80 bpm during the night. An apnea attack would show elevated pulse rate with oxygen desaturation, so I don't think I'm having clinically significant apnea (of course, this doesn't mean I'm getting restful sleep; you can have "partial arousals" that don't much spike your BPM/SpO2 numbers, but which still ruin your REM sleep). We'll see if the new fancy auto CPAP machine helps.

I'm somewhat at a loss. I'm going to email the nutritionist and see what she thinks. I'm seeing her in a week, but I feel crappy NOW, and I'm not losing weight NOW, so I'm hoping for answers...

I'm convinced that ultimately this is nutritional. I just don't know what it is that I'm missing. My suspicion right now hovers around carbs; I know that everyone on here afears the carbs, but I'm noticing that eating carbs (especially complex, good carbs -- fruits, whole wheat crackers, etc.) seems to help a lot. I think I have to switch away from such a protein-heavy diet and start incorporating more fruits and whole grains in my diet.

Edited June 28, 2010 by ouroborous

[LAN2k 18]

Maybe a litte lower on the carbs? I don't mean Atkins mode just maybe cut them back to around 60 per day and see if that helps. I have had LONG stalls 2 months even!

[kymmi12 0]

Everyone has said what I 'm experiencing also. I became a sleever on April 14th 2010. And i was 289 lbs, Now I'm 251 lbs . So I was happy at first now I'm sad , depressed , upset, confused and down right feeling stupid. What can I do to get it moving again? Its like some science formula that has to be applied..lol I am truly confused. I exercise daily . (For long periods sometimes). I only eat around 1000-1300 a day. ( if that) I try to eat at all sorts of times and I really eat healthy.. I get all my Protein, sometimes 128 gm of it . I drink plenty of Water and crystal lite. I get few carbs but I try to eat the whole grains and brown rice . I don't do salads anymore. I eat all veggies cooked now. I snack on mixed nuts. I want this fat off of me but you all are right , It did'nt take me a short time to get that big so it has to come off slow. I can tell in my clothes that I'm getting smaller, just looking in the mirror , I can still see that 300 lb woman. but today I got a summer dress from Walmart and I got a XL, I used to wear 3-5X in walmart. thats amazing just to think of that. I am just frustrated because i seem to think that I am suppose to loose all the weight in 4 months or less...LOL This is a mental game with this sleeve and You know , I love it!!! well atleast I know that I am normal... I've been 251 for a whole month. Someone says i should add a small amount of fat to my diet to trick the body into thinking that I'm eating more fat and the body will release the fat and I should start losing the weight again. I know that I am doing all the right things to losse and It will definitly start again , I just wish that it will be soon. I have lost 38lbs so far and my health is 100% better. So thats got to be a plus...

[kymmi12 0]

also I havent had to sleep with the c-pap machine since surgery . Frankly , I am scared to use it because I seem to beleive that it will blow air into my gut and damage it. And nothing will hurt my sleeve... I am very protected over it. LOL I will not give up.

[MINI-Me 196]

This is a way out there idea, but maybe worth sharing ...

I wonder if it's just the surgical blues??? Since you feel better with food, I wonder if it's your body's way of saying "Yes, this is what I want. I'm tired of trying to survive on so little".

Like I said, only a guess ... but I know I had the blues after surgery & it was difficult to get past them. I was dealing with a lot of issues with my "comfort food" loss and didn't really know it.

Hope things get better soon.

[ouroborous 519]

Okay, I just heard back from the nutritionist (I'm so lucky to have highly-skilled nutritionists who actually answer their email). She told me to eat more carbs.

Basically, we need carbs for energy, mood regulation, and all kinds of stuff. Basically at >100g of Protein per day, I'm not leaving enough calories in my calorie budget for carbs. So she told me to eat less Protein, and eat more carbs. I'm putting this in bold because so much of the "folklore" that circulates around here is that "carbs are bad."

However, my own experience is that long-term, very low-carb diets can be hazardous to your well-being! She also responded that it's not as important to be low-carb as it is to be low-calorie.

With regards to the plateau I'm experiencing, she said what you all are saying: plateaus happen, and as long as I'm doing all the exercise and stuff I'm supposed to be doing (I am), I will eventually start losing weight again (I asked her about the "sleeve/pouch reset" and it was her opinion that this is basically just a placebo that keeps you occupied during the time that it normally takes for you to get out of a plateau -- in other words, it just keeps you busy, it doesn't actually DO anything as long as the calories are the same).

But with regards to feeling blue, down, lethargic, sleepy, and low energy, she was very emphatic that I need to eat more carbs, more complex carbs, and restrict my protein if necessary to do so.

So to anyone who's going through this same thing, post-sleeve blues, talk to your doc or nutritionist, but please don't just buy into the common folklore that "carbs are bad." Maybe for some people, maybe sometimes, but for the rest of us, carbs are important for maintaining mood and energy. And as we all know, when you're too exhausted to go to the gym or make good food choices, your weight loss will suffer.

(Note: if you couldn't tell, I feel better while writing this. I ate some grapes -- again... evil, evil carbs!)

[ouroborous 519]

This is a way out there idea, but maybe worth sharing ...

I wonder if it's just the surgical blues??? Since you feel better with food, I wonder if it's your body's way of saying "Yes, this is what I want. I'm tired of trying to survive on so little".

Like I said, only a guess ... but I know I had the blues after surgery & it was difficult to get past them. I was dealing with a lot of issues with my "comfort food" loss and didn't really know it.

Hope things get better soon.

Thanks for the reply!

But nope, it was nutritional. I wasn't eating enough carbs.

I think I'm going to stop listening to the folks here who say "ohhhh noooo, 60g of carbs! You're going to get fat!" and start listening to my nutritionist who keeps telling me "don't worry about carbs -- stick to your Protein, Water, calorie, and exercise goals, and you WILL lose weight, and feel so much better while you're doing it!"

[Keys Pirate 70]

I disagree 100% and am afraid you are setting yourself up for more disappointment. Simply, the science regarding carbs and weight loss is there and has been proven a jillion times. I don't buy into the good carb/bad carb thing either. Sugar is sugar, a carb is a carb.

Anyhow, it will be interesting to see how it goes for you and hopefully you will prove us wrong but I doubt it. Personally, I have had raging success with carb reduction during my losing stage. I'm at 85 pounds lost in 5 months, my goal is 104#'s. I've only had one stall that was for two weeks that just ended; never had any real stalls until this one. I just dumped another five pounds in as many days.

To keep my energy level and mood up, I don't turn to carbs, I turn away from them. Have another Protein shake. I know earlier on when I was feeling like a slug, a shake turned that around 180 degrees. Or exercise. I ride the death out of my bike - some 75 miles per week and push as hard as I can when I ride. It's working miracles in so many ways. Or just pull yourself out of it! I get funky and then ask myself what the heck I have to be funky about. It usually works.

Re-reading this, I sound like a b*t*ch and I don't mean to, I just don't want to sugar coat the truly evil carb demon (ooo, bad pun!) and see you suffer any more than necessary...

Good luck!