Any of wish you had gotten RNY?

[meganwf 0]

I just wanted to add some facts that have been missed or misquoted in this thread:

1) the last study on mortality associated with RNY showed 4.6% died within 1 year of the operation. In those 65 and older, that figure was 11.1%. The 'way under 2%' death rate that has been suggested in this thread is fundamentally incorrect. It represents perhaps those that actually die on the table (instead of within 1 year), or perhaps the results of one highly superior surgeon. Overall, the picture is far worse than that.

2) There have been several international studies that show by 5 years out, the weight loss for RNY and GB are within 1-2% of each other. RNY do gain weight back starting in the third year, on average. GB studies I have seen show no weight gain or a very small weight gain by the 7th year. Of course these are average results. Some people do much better on one or the other; some do worse.

3) Gastic bypass is the 'gold standard' ONLY in this country, and our medical system is ONLY ranked around 37 in terms of the world. In other words, if there is a gold standard, we probably don't have it- some country with a much better medical system probably does. (Sorry to those who want to think America could only have the best of everything.) Those coutries that are in the top 10 all hold the band as the gold standard.

[willowbas 0]

For ME, rny just wasn't an option. I didn't really have co-morbidities. I had lap band surgery to avoid them. I was having a bit of high blood pressure. I still have a 15 yo at home and I feared complications with rny that might be life-threatening. That being said, one of my dearest friends had rny and it literally saved her life.

[GeezerSue 7]

I just wanted to add some facts that have been missed or misquoted in this thread:

1) the last study on mortality associated with RNY showed 4.6% died within 1 year of the operation. In those 65 and older, that figure was 11.1%. The 'way under 2%' death rate that has been suggested in this thread is fundamentally incorrect. It represents perhaps those that actually die on the table (instead of within 1 year), or perhaps the results of one highly superior surgeon. Overall, the picture is far worse than that.

A lot of people reasonably assume that this study might have something to do with THEIR potential with wls. But there is a HUGE problem with that assumption as far as THIS study is concerned. THIS study was on MEDICARE PATIENTS ONLY. To get Medicare under the age of 65, you have to be very, very sick. Very, very, very sick. People at death's door are routinely denied Social Security Disability and, therefore, Medicare. So this study was NOT done on a random sample of the MO population, it was done on very, very sick people.

For that group, the numbers aren't bad. Because withouth the surgery, more of them might have died.

Another one of their stats, which I don't think you quoted, was how many wls people "needed" additional surgery within a year or two. Well, hello? Plastic surgery, anyone? I didn't need additional surgery (boob reduction, panniculectomy and revision) because I was sicker...I "needed" it because I was getting healthier.

This study is probably valid for the population on which it was conducted, but I think that it just doesn't apply to most of us.

[GeezerSue 7]

Oh, Megan...I forgot...yes the band is the STARTING PLACE for most of the civilized world...but a good number of them are removed, as well. When looking into band removal/revision, one of the better known European surgeons wrote back to me that 20% of his practice is removing bands and revising to RnY or DS.

I think, though, that in many countries physicians hold the philosophy that, "when you get to the bottom of the whole, it's a good idea to stop digging." If the band doesn't show promise of delivering satisfactory weight loss within a reasonable period of time, they pull it out and go for something else. THAT part of the wisdom has been missing from the American approach, although some doctors are becoming more open about their willingness to try another method.

[Alexandra 55]

I think the whole American approach is bass-ackwards. It just makes sense to do the least invasive thing first, and reserve more dramatic approaches for later. The idea that 20% of bands need revising later on is not at all worrisome to me, because that means that 80% don't. That's a large number of major, major surgeries NOT done because something simpler and safer worked. In America we don't even give it a chance (yet).

I hope we're getting there, though.

[hairagain 0]

I just had my first fill yesterday and feel good. I went to a meeting tonight that served delicious hor douvers. I had to eat slow and was very happy with one plate of food and ran out of time to eat what I had taken. The lady beside me had by-pass about 5 years ago. She was thin for awhile and I have watched her gaining by the month. She ate two plates to my one in no time flat. She said she pretty much can eat anything. I guess she is the reason I chose the band. It is a "system" of controlling myself that I can control and work with. I know the loss will be slow but I don't care as long as it happens. It won't be that slow however if I get off my duff and excercise and toss the excuse list out the window. The weather is nice I feel good and I am going for a walk. Best way to get off the food thoughts is to go out and see the world in spring!!

Darlene

[scuuder3 0]

that is exactly right, about the study with 4.6% mortality rate being on Medicare patients also. more importantly if anyone is considering RNY, find out YOUR surgeons mortality-morbidity rate. my surgeon has had one death in 1000 procedures, and that was from anesthesia. That computes to .1%, not too much risk there.

[GeezerSue 7]

I think the whole American approach is bass-ackwards. It just makes sense to do the least invasive thing first, and reserve more dramatic approaches for later. The idea that 20% of bands need revising later on is not at all worrisome to me, because that means that 80% don't. That's a large number of major, major surgeries NOT done because something simpler and safer worked. In America we don't even give it a chance (yet).

I hope we're getting there, though.

I don't know if even that many need revising. It was just that HIS PRACTICE was 20% revisions to other approaches.

[lovecats85 2]

facts schamcts, studies schmudies, statistics schmatistics.......

Sure I cared about all that before I got banded, but right now all I know is I know WAY TOO MANY RNY people that are packing back on the pounds. I really hope that this doesn't happen to bandsters once the band has been out awhile longer, but even if it does, at least I know I can get my band out and my stomach will still be the same. For me, re-routing my intestines just never was, has been, or will be any kind of option. Even if it had no death rate and no listed side effects, I'm just not ready to get cut up at this point in my life.

[lady in red 0]

I have 2 friends that have had the bypass procedure and while both were happy to get the weight off, both were also unhappy with the great amount of excess skin left by such rapid weight loss. The reality is that whatever we choose, it will be the right choice for us as individuals. I chose the band and totally love it, but my friends chose the bypass and reached their goals alot sooner with side-effects, Hair loss, excess skin, etc., but they both would do it again to be rid of over 100 pounds of rejection. Good luck to you in whatever choice you make, please do your homework. God bless!

[GeezerSue 7]

facts schamcts, studies schmudies, statistics schmatistics.......

Sure I cared about all that before I got banded, but right now all I know is I know WAY TOO MANY RNY people that are packing back on the pounds.

The difference between those bypass and banded patients who are not at goal, say, three years out, is that the bypass people lose down to goal or near goal and regain, and the banded people never lose much. (That's for those who are not at goal a while out.) They end up at the same place, but by different routes. (And that's the RnY, not the DS, which has a different average weight loss.)

I really hope that this doesn't happen to bandsters once the band has been out awhile longer, but even if it does, at least I know I can get my band out and my stomach will still be the same. For me, re-routing my intestines just never was, has been, or will be any kind of option. Even if it had no death rate and no listed side effects, I'm just not ready to get cut up at this point in my life.

I agree, except that not everyone who has to have their band removed ends up with a stomach that is just "the same." Sometimes there is damage to the esophagus or the stomach.

You are awfully young to try try something as drastic as the surgery I just had, anyway. There ARE risks...but at my age it wasn't like I was risking a long, healthy life. It was more of a trade-off between having five or maybe ten more BAD years, or taking a chance for ten or more GOOD years. I opted for the latter, but I don't think I would have done so in my twenties or thirties.

[PhotoNut 7]

The difference between those bypass and banded patients who are not at goal, say, three years out, is that the bypass people lose down to goal or near goal and regain, and the banded people never lose much. (That's for those who are not at goal a while out.)

Sue, am I misunderstanding what you've said here? If you're saying that RNY patients lose fast and regain, but lap band patients don't lose much, so it's all a wash, then I'd like to offer these two threads in defense of those who ARE indeed losing a LOT. I'm not sure why you'd say bandsters don't lose much. And no, this isn't to start an argument, it's just to clarify.

People who have lost over 100 pounds:

http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16050

Scroll down to the Honors page on this thread:

http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16050

The following are my thoughts, spoken aloud as an opinion. It is not intended to be directed at anyone in the form of passive aggressive behavior. If you do not like what I think or say, please don't blast me for my writing style or personality.. simply put me on Ignore. Thanks

It seems to me that some folks are being very defensive about their own preferences. There is no need to argue over which prodedure works or doesn't work, nor is it necessary to get upset when someone feels strongly about not chosing something that perhaps we have chosen. Some of you chose to have the sleeve, or bypass, while others have moved on to these procedures after trying the lap band. I have not visited bypass support boards, so I have no idea if they are busy arguing with people about the band or not, but this seems a bit over the top. We are all free to have our opinions. We are all free to say, "The lapband sucks and now I'm going to do what I should have done in the first place" or to say "I would never risk having bypass surgery. I've heard and seen very negative things about it." Just because we have an opinion that might differ to someone elses doesn't constitute an ongoing struggle to prove who's right and who's wrong. When a thread is started that asks for opinions, we should expect to see a wide range of thoughts, beliefs, and convictions and not feel threatened by such.

If I started a thread entitled, "Lapbands rule, RNY sucks" or "People who choose the RNY are idiots" then, yeah.. bring on the war. Otherwise, give everyone room to share their thoughts without feeling like they are attacking you or your choices.

There are a few here who no longer have the band and choose to stay here and be a part of this community that are gracious enough to remain encouraging rather than pissy about those who still have a lot of hope in the band. It can't be easy to continue giving support, advice, and encouragement to current bandsters when they've had to give up that hope for themselves, and I appreciate their unselfish hearts. I would name them, but then it would appear that those not on my list are being pointed out and that's not my intent. Besides, we all know who they are and we all love and appreciate them so much. They are a fine example to us all.

[GeezerSue 7]

Sue, am I misunderstanding what you've said here?

Looks like it.

I wrote: The difference between those bypass and banded patients who are not at goal, say, three years out, is that the bypass people lose down to goal or near goal and regain, and the banded people never lose much.

If you're saying that RNY patients lose fast and regain, but lap band patients don't lose much, so it's all a wash, then I'd like to offer these two threads in defense of those who ARE indeed losing a LOT. I'm not sure why you'd say bandsters don't lose much. And no, this isn't to start an argument, it's just to clarify.

People who have lost over 100 pounds:

http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16050

Scroll down to the Honors page on this thread:

http://lapbandtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16050

I wrote that I was speaking of banded and bypassed patients who--three years or so post-op--were not at or near goal. I suppose I could have made it more clear, but I'm not sure how and I really thought it was pretty clear as I wrote it. (I didn't visit the links, because how many people, here, at one site, HAVE lost a lot of weight was NOT what I was talking about. I was, again, talking about people with band or bypass, who--a few years post-op were not where they had planned to be.)

The following are my thoughts, spoken aloud as an opinion. It is not intended to be directed at anyone in the form of passive aggressive behavior. If you do not like what I think or say, please don't blast me for my writing style or personality.. simply put me on Ignore. Thanks

It seems to me that some folks are being very defensive about their own preferences. There is no need to argue over which prodedure works or doesn't work, nor is it necessary to get upset when someone feels strongly about not chosing something that perhaps we have chosen.

Couldn't agree more. On all your points.

Some of you chose to have the sleeve, or bypass, while others have moved on to these procedures after trying the lap band. I have not visited bypass support boards, so I have no idea if they are busy arguing with people about the band or not, but this seems a bit over the top.

You should. ALL sites that are home to more than one procedure have their share of misunderstood facts, or misunderstood comments or self-appointed spokespersons for one procedure or the other. And disagreements, from time to time, are the rule, not the exception.

We are all free to have our opinions. We are all free to say, "The lapband sucks and now I'm going to do what I should have done in the first place" or to say "I would never risk having bypass surgery. I've heard and seen very negative things about it." Just because we have an opinion that might differ to someone elses doesn't constitute an ongoing struggle to prove who's right and who's wrong. When a thread is started that asks for opinions, we should expect to see a wide range of thoughts, beliefs, and convictions and not feel threatened by such.

Yes, we are all entitled to create our own opinions, although I would suggest that creating our own FACTS, is just bad form...and will probably be challenged. So, if you say, "I will not have anything more invasive than the band...just don't want it," you certainly have MY atta-boy. (And that and $2.75 might get you a cup of coffee.) But if you say, "I will not have that DS surgery because everyone who does turns orange and gets webbed feet," you might reasonably expect to hear from those who are in the mood to challenge your facts. Just as YOU might challenge someone you THOUGHT said that banded people don't lose much weight.

If I started a thread entitled, "Lapbands rule, RNY sucks" or "People who choose the RNY are idiots" then, yeah.. bring on the war. Otherwise, give everyone room to share their thoughts without feeling like they are attacking you or your choices.

Agreed.

There are a few here who no longer have the band and choose to stay here and be a part of this community that are gracious enough to remain encouraging rather than pissy about those who still have a lot of hope in the band. It can't be easy to continue giving support, advice, and encouragement to current bandsters when they've had to give up that hope for themselves, and I appreciate their unselfish hearts. I would name them, but then it would appear that those not on my list are being pointed out and that's not my intent. Besides, we all know who they are and we all love and appreciate them so much. They are a fine example to us all.

Indeed...and those were people who were always un-pissy. Some of us are just pissy in general, having nothing to do with which wls we are trying at the moment. I was pissy when happily banded, I was pissy when unhappily banded and I'm pretty pissy now. (Not everyone sees the glass as half-full; that's what makes this planet interesting.) Perhaps some people are perceiving my pissy-ness differently now that I'm unbanded. Or maybe they didn't know me back then.

I STILL recommend the band for many people and provide as much support as I can, here and at other sites. What I CHALLENGE are outrageous claims with no basis in fact. I know that the newly-banded or the about-to-be-banded often perceive any negative information about the band as an attack on their dream. But they CAN choose to perceive it as just the other side of the coin. I have never suggested that the band doesn't work. I've simply pointed out that some people go into this propostion (not so much here, more so at another site) COMPLETELY unaware of what they are getting into and what to expect. And even here, as you can see from some of the questions asked by recent post-ops, some people make it clear that they know NOTHING about being banded. Too many people go into banding thinking that it's all pretty pink ponies and rainbows, with no problems. If they bother to hit the internet seeking out information, they deserve to hear the whole story. (And civilized, fact-filled debates for that matter.)

Cheers,

Sue

[PhotoNut 7]

Ah sorry, Sue. Only the first portion of my post was to you. The rest was just meant to be thoughts to everyone in general, not for you specifically. Sorry you felt you had to address each point in that long ass post! LOL

[vinesqueen 2]

GeezerSue pissy???? No, it couldn't possibly be true (you KNOW I love ya' Sue! he he)

And then there is me. The band won't help me lose weight, and I'm sure that a bypass/malapsorption type of procedure would not help either.