I hear the drums of war beating!!!!!!!!!

[Birinak 19]

Your asking people to do due diligence, which you wont get from most people here, or anywhere else. Assumptions always have and always will, be made about people based on what is seen. And again, I stand by what I said, what we see(mostly because of the media bias), is the violence and radicalism of the middle east and north Africa.

Many(not all!) of the people of those regions are uneducated, and quite literally don't know what is best for them(not that we do either), they cheer and praise each new dictator thinking it will be different and better this time, and it never is. America is responsible for much of what happens, as we help put many of these people in power, ignorantly thinking the same as the natives, that it will be different, but it never is. Look at the history of those helped into power by the US and what has happened with them; Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussien, etc. etc. And Libya is no different right now, we're helping the rebels(Muslim brotherhood, the most extreme of the muslims) push out a known dictator, Qaddaffi, but who will replace him? Another crazy Islamic extremist? Probably, and he will more than likely turn on us once things improve, as history has proven time and again.

However to say that people don't do the same with America is equally ignorant, you may not, but a vast majority does.

I don't know what anybody said about nuking the middle east, but I wouldn't have said it, and I would have had I seen it, said something against it. I am however not against the idea of the taking some of what we've protected. Much the was Donald Trump has said he would like to do. Spoils of war. We have invested billions, if not trillions into many nations in the middle east and receive nothing in return for our money and the lives of men and women. I would advocate for taking the sum of the what we've invested in them in oil back to us. It's like we're paying twice for much of this, because if it weren't for us, and the money we've invested, they wouldn't be able to sell the oil they do, back to us. It's all very silly IMO.

The stories of your family are of course both sad and yet inspirational, however, very unknown to much of the world, which unfortunately diminishes them to many.

I never expected people to actually know much about other countries (although, the average North American is noticeably less well-read about the world than other First World citizens and that's a shame). What I expect is actually pretty reasonable; defer making your judgements on any topic public until you've done your due diligence, as you say. It's actually more to Loserbob's benefit to know what he's talking about before he speaks on a subject. Also, people generally look less ignorant if they avoid phrases like "those people" and "tribe mentalities" when referring to entire populations (of which they know little about). A good tip, I think.

I certainly have never argued that there are no animalistic and tribal people in the Middle-East, Africa, or South Asia. My family's story is all about various members suffering at the hands of those kinds of people. The point is that the people who are fighting them, being tortured, raped, and killed everyday, are Middle-Eastern too. So, imagine how angering it is for non-tribal, secular Middle-Easterners (or even those decent families who don't fight because they reasonably don't want to lose what my family lost) to see comments like Loserbob's.

Anyway, I gathered from a few of your other posts on this board that we have different political ideologies, so our opinions are going to differ radically on many things, I expect. Nonetheless, I find it funny that you, the Republican on the board, are responding with civility, and actually listening to what this Middle-Easterner has said before responding, whereas the proud Democrat (Loserbob) persists in insulting me with stereotypes because of my ethnicity. Now, I don't think that you guys are representative of your respective parties (I happen to like the Obama administration and I dislike many figures in the Republican party). It just goes to show that it's too simplistic to judge people's characters by their political persuasions (...or ethnicity, Loserbob).

As for a debt of oil, I would think that, in theory, it would only be fair. Then, there are questions of whether the intervention was just and ethical (as Latin Americans can tell us, many have not been), and whether it was for the purpose of liberation. I think intervening countries have done well to intervene in Libya. I was really hoping for it. There will always be Islamic militants and pro-Gaddafi supporters (or my fellow leftists) who claim that it's Western imperialism, but this action, as in the Balkans, is the definition of a "just intervention."

As it is, it seems that the rebels are actually quite grateful, waving French flags and what not. There was that incident a few days ago, where rebels were accidentally killed by NATO forces and the surviving rebels (even those in hospital) were saying that it was only natural that mistakes like this happen and that they were still thankful for the coalition forces. One rebel said: "It's the coalition that protects us."

Similarly, many Iranians would be grateful for a multi-lateral intervention. After the start of the Iraq war, my dad was actually saying that he hoped America would go into Iran. Obviously, this isn't the view of all Iranians. I wouldn't want America to take that burden onto themselves. Also, I think that Iranians are capable of over-throwing the Islamic regime themselves, and when a people can liberate themselves even after decades, that's always best. Then, there will be no excuses left for anti-Westerners (i.e. saying that Americans just came for oil, as some are saying about Libya). Plus, any civilian deaths that occur can't be blamed on foreign forces.

Of course, air-strikes against Iranian nuclear facilities would be just. I hate when non-Iranian leftists (although I am also ideologically left on most issues) try to claim otherwise, as if they were being compassionate to Iranians. If the Iranian government obtains nuclear weapons, it will be Iranians and Iran's neighbours who'll suffer. The government may never use a nuclear bomb, but it'll be able to hold neighbouring countries hostage whenever it likes. Or, imagine the next time the government wants to execute an innocent woman, what kind of pressure can America place on the Iranian government when Iran threatens a strike against Iraq or Israel?

What America needs in order to strengthen its position and to weaken totalitarian Middle-Eastern regimes is energy independence. U.S. administrations have been promising this since Nixon, and there's been very little progress toward the goal. The focus needs to be on bio-energy research. Saudi Arabia is one of the worst regimes in the world and, when it beheads women and gays every Friday night, it gets a free pass because of its oil resources. Not only is it a prison for women, but it's a major threat to the rest of the world. Saudi Arabia openly supports terrorism, has been sponsoring Islamo-fascist schools in the West and recruiting westernized Muslim men to Wahabbism. If people are serious about winning the war against Islamo-fascism, energy independence should be our number one goal rather than increasing our hold on foreign oil.

[isit5yet 37]

Many(not all!) of the people of those regions are uneducated, and quite literally don't know what is best for them(not that we do either), they cheer and praise each new dictator thinking it will be different and better this time, and it never is.

How is this any different from the uneducated Americans I see around me who listen to Glenn Beck and support politicians who have NO interest in helping them? I see more people vote their religion, although they are starving, their farms are failing, and they wag their tails and pant over people like Palin, Trump, Huckabee, Backmann, etc. They think it will be different.. but it rarely is for them. Don't think that blind allegiance is just relegating to dictator run governments.

[ariscus99 1]

<br>How is this any different from the uneducated Americans I see around me who listen to Glenn Beck and support politicians who have NO interest in helping them? I see more people vote their religion, although they are starving, their farms are failing, and they wag their tails and pant over people like Palin, Trump, Huckabee, Backmann, etc. They think it will be different.. but it rarely is for them. Don't think that blind allegiance is just relegating to dictator run governments.<br>

<br><br>You obviously don't pay much attention, to compare anyone from the US to an uneducated tribe like person from north Africa is so out there it doesn't even really deserve a response, but I'll humor you. It's funny thats the thing democrats/liberals always bring up, why do they vote for people who aren't helping them. Here's the simple answer; real Americans, who believe in the American way of life, as was dreamt by the founding fathers, don't want more help from the Government. The government over reaches on an astounding level already. Many Americans realize that suffering is part of life, that not everything will always be great, and that you have to persevere through the hard times to get to the better, on their own, not by taking the handouts of the government, but by hard work and sacrifice. I realize this is a hard concept for those on the left to grasp, but it really is what many want.

<div><br></div><div>It isn't different with any politician, it hasn't been different with obama, it won't be different with whomever we get next, unless we get lucky enough to get someone who isn't a career politician. Which is one of the reason's Trump is appealing to many people. He's no nonsense, he wants to close tax loopholes he wants to invest in domestic oil, and thinks, as I said before, that we should be repaid by many of the middle eastern nations we've helped and invest billions of dollar's in, by them giving us oil. He wants to stop the Chinese from playing the games with their monetary system that they do which messes with the rest of the world and makes it cheaper to send jobs there than elsewhere. He wants to bring back jobs to the US, by making it more expensive to do business overseas, and by lowering what is, the HIGHEST corporate tax rate in the world, making it more appealing to do work here, couple that with removing the tax loopholes many businesses use to get out of paying taxes and we should have revenues never seen before. Those are some reason's I like him, but I need to learn more before I'd consider voting for him. It was nice of you to show you liberal elitism by assuming anyone who watches Beck or Oreilly, or listens to Rush, must be uneducated and takes everything at face value. Even though they tell people multiple times throughout their show's NOT to take anything at face value and to do their own homework. But if your not a democrat your too dumb to actually do that I'm sure.</div>

[ariscus99 1]

What America needs in order to strengthen its position and to weaken totalitarian Middle-Eastern regimes is energy independence. U.S. administrations have been promising this since Nixon, and there's been very little progress toward the goal. The focus needs to be on bio-energy research. Saudi Arabia is one of the worst regimes in the world and, when it beheads women and gays every Friday night, it gets a free pass because of its oil resources. Not only is it a prison for women, but it's a major threat to the rest of the world. Saudi Arabia openly supports terrorism, has been sponsoring Islamo-fascist schools in the West and recruiting westernized Muslim men to Wahabbism. If people are serious about winning the war against Islamo-fascism, energy independence should be our number one goal rather than increasing our hold on foreign oil.

You're absolutely right that America needs to become energy independent. However where I disagree with you, is how we do that. Of course we need to be investing in new methods of energy, but for right now, very few are effective, and most are very expensive for what we get out of it. I live very near a wind farm in So Cal. They take up miles of area, are unsightly, and only don't even create enough power to supply all of Palm Springs, which is not a large city, in addition, they cause several dozen, up about 150 fires a year, that get billed to the power company and then passed on to the residents every year, fighting those fires is not cheap easy or safe. IMO we need to be drilling more at home, we have many reserves that can and IMO should be tapped, ANWR, the east side of the rockies we just learned contains what may be one of the largest oil reserves in the world. We also are allowing foreign countries to drill in our waters to take oil back to their countries, instead of using it for us. Additionally a little known fact is that we are one of the top 10 largest exporters of oil in the world, lets keep that at home. Lets get nuclear power going, it's clean and it's much safer than any other type of power we have right now. People can talk about Chernobyl, 3 mile island, even Japan recently, however all of those combined, haven't taken the lives in the same amount of time that coal has, even oil has taken many lives, we have the ability to make much safer reactors than what have failed in the past.

As for Saudi Arabia, I just read a very interesting article about how the west won't allow the House of Saudi to fall, because of what would happen to our way of life. So they basically get a pass because we don't want to see $300 a barrel oil. I think it's outrageous, but it seems there is nothing going to change any time soon. If we were independent of foreign oil, maybe we could do something about it. Trump wants to do something about, according to him he'd like to see a regime change there and again, we take our oil to pay us back, so there is no skyrocket in the price of oil.

[isit5yet 37]

I said more people vote religion and align themselves with people who don't really care about them. Not ALL people, and certainly not the reverse that all ppl who support those politicians are rednecks. There was no transitive property to my statement. You lose at turning that around. Good day, sir!

Here's the simple answer; real Americans, who believe in the American way of life, as was dreamt by the founding fathers, don't want more help from the Government. The government over reaches on an astounding level already. Many Americans realize that suffering is part of life, that not everything will always be great, and that you have to persevere through the hard times to get to the better, on their own, not by taking the handouts of the government, but by hard work and sacrifice. I realize this is a hard concept for those on the left to grasp, but it really is what many want.

The "real American" rhetoric is becoming a yawner at this point. What makes some more real than another? I'd love to know absolute criteria, although, I suspect it has more to do with holding a party line rather than anything the founding fathers really believed. I never mentioned government involvement or handouts, nor did I mention my political affiliation, but you're good at assuming I see. Or, at least, good at overreacting and getting offended. Whatever floats your boat. I'm third generation American; Am I less American than someone else who say they uphold the founder fathers' beliefs. Oh no.. I'm less American since I'm not Christian (yet I believe in helping those who need it, go figure!), have an opposing political viewpoint, am a working mother with a toddler in daycare (for shame!), I hate NASCAR, guns and think Palin and Bachmann are popular because rednecks want to see their tits (and that's all).

Your generalization about those on the left finding your dribble hard to understand shows how simplistic that argument has become. "Those on the left", you know, the elitist left (e.g.- codename for New Yorkers and Jews), came here and did just what you described, and without help. My family came here in 1907 after the Odessa Russia Pogrom. They learned English, worked, got an education and made it work. That's a typical turn of the century immigrant story. You can put in Irish, Italian, Chinese or Jewish into that storyline. However, now those hardworking Americans and sons, daughters, and grandchildren of those immigrants who are left leaning don't understand what being an American means? That's horseshit.

I guess the Tea Party movement agrees with this, right, when they want to "their country back"?

John Adams; "God is an essence that we know other of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world. "

James Madison: "And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

Thomas Jefferson: "Question with boldness even the existence of God.

Ben Franklin: "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

[ariscus99 1]

I'm only going to address this part for now because it made me laugh a lot reading through it.

The "real American" rhetoric is becoming a yawner at this point. What makes some more real than another? I'd love to know absolute criteria, although, I suspect it has more to do with holding a party line rather than anything the founding fathers really believed. I never mentioned government involvement or handouts, nor did I mention my political affiliation, but you're good at assuming I see. Or, at least, good at overreacting and getting offended. Whatever floats your boat. I'm third generation American; Am I less American than someone else who say they uphold the founder fathers' beliefs. Oh no.. I'm less American since I'm not Christian (yet I believe in helping those who need it, go figure!), have an opposing political viewpoint, am a working mother with a toddler in daycare (for shame!), I hate NASCAR, guns and think Palin and Bachmann are popular because rednecks want to see their tits (and that's all).

The bolded part is especially funny when you read the rest of this paragraph. I never mentioned my affiliation, and I never got offended and didn't really overreact. But, if we read the rest of this paragraph, we see your overreaction. I never mentioned rednecks, working mothers, or NASCAR(which I also hate btw), but you tear off on some tangent about it all. IMO what makes a person more of an American than someone else has nothing to do with what generation they are(I'm only 2nd gen American), I think a person who gets their citizenship today can be much more of an American than someone who's family came over on the mayflower. It has to do with beliefs. It has to do with upholding and promoting the American dream and forwarding the American experiment. So yeah I'd say someone is less American if they don't believe and try to uphold the founding father's beliefs, than a person who does do that. I don't care much about political viewpoints if you read my post's there are a number of things that I'm on both sides of the aisle about, I don't affiliate with any one political party and think the retarded two party system we have is one of the biggest problems facing our nation. I also never brought up religion, I don't feel religion has any part in what makes a person more American than anyone else. I know devout atheists who want nothing more than to live word for by the constitution, some of the most libertarian people I know are atheist. I know it's 1930 anymore and many mothers aren't stay at home moms, nor do they need to be, I'm not a dr.laura fan. My mom has throughout my life and even today worked on average 50+ hours a week, and that number only climbed after my dad died, and she was promoted to VP of the bank she's at, now it's closer to 70 hours a week, and most weekends. Guns would be a whole other argument, but feel free to not own any, it means I can own more, and if the SEHTF, I'll be able to hunt for food and protect my family, and you'll need to find a different means of which to survive. No big deal, and no sweat off my brow. I will say though, on the topic of gun control, I own many firearms and definitely do fear that the government might decide to take them someday, especially since I live in CA, of the more than 40 I own about 6 are registered(most were purchased by my father before you had to register firearms), and those six will be reported stolen the day any such legislation passes. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman, I think it's funny you say that about them, on the psychological level definitely shows a bit of jealousy towards their physical appearance, and you can rebut that all you want, but pretty much anyone would agree. They are both educated women, who believe they are doing what is best for their country, and if it helps their pocket book thats fine too, no different than anyone else. I always think it's funny how so many women out there belittle these two, and most other women on the right, like because they are conservative they must be less of a women and therefore not worthy of the women's rights movement. You objectify them, but probably get mad when people talk about how ugly Pelosi or Hilary are. You've come out as quite the hypocrite here already, and in just a couple of post's.

[ariscus99 1]

Here is that article I was talking about Birinak:

Why gold and oil will soar but the dollar and America we knew might be finished!

by Ron Holland

Oil at $200 plus a barrel will be the least of America’s problems when the Saudi Monarchy falls.

"If something happens in Saudi Arabia it (oil) will go to $200 to $300 (a barrel). I don't expect this for the time being, but who would have expected Tunisia?" ~ Former Saudi oil minister Sheikh Zaki Yamani 4/5/11

The most important question facing the United States today is whether the freedom revolutions sweeping the Middle East will impact the authoritarian regime of Saudi Arabia and the major oil producers surrounding this nation of major oil reserves? The second question is if the government is overthrown, will the new government continue the practice of pricing oil in depreciating dollars rather than consider new options?

The future value of the dollar and the dollar status as the world’s reserve currency depend heavily on the outcome of these two questions. This is why the price of gold could soar and the dollar move dramatically lower when the Saudi Monarchy is overthrown. I fear, the probable American military reaction to this scenario threatens what remains of our republic and may be compared by future historians as comparable in scope to Caesar's march across the Rubicon in Roman history.

"I don't think that what the King is doing now is sufficient to prevent an uprising. Saudi Arabia is a time bomb, but one that is constantly being reset," ~ Jaafar Al Taie, managing director of Manaar Energy Consulting

Today, I’m warning about the risk of a dollar and Treasury bond threat which could make the real estate collapse or 2008 market meltdown mere footnotes in comparison. Today in the Middle East, either by stupidity or design, the Federal Reserve’s perpetuation of the dollar and treasury debt Ponzi schemes is now dependent on the survival of a few dictatorial regimes staying in power in the Persian Gulf while surrounded by spreading freedom revolutions.

This is the most dangerous region in the world and the focal point for conflict between Iran and America, the freedom revolution and authoritarian regimes, Sunni and Shiite, Israel and the Arab world, vast oil resources and the oil needs of the West and China, and where the decision will be made to price oil in depreciating dollars or in other currency alternatives. Of all the conflicts and threats in the region, I believe the question as to whether oil continues to be priced in dollars and the dollar remains the world’s reserve currency for now and the risk of a US dollar and debt collapse are the greatest threats facing America and the West.

The real estate bubble and financial meltdown as well as the new stock market bubble are misdemeanors in criminality compared to the Federal Reserve mistake of allowing our currency and debt to be dependent and held hostage based on the survival of a few corrupt authoritarian leaders in fake nations created by London politicians many years ago.

The Saudi Monarchy Will Fall Sooner Rather Than Later

The democracy index published by the Economist Intelligence Unit for 2010 places Libya 158th out of 167 and Saudi Arabia 160th of all nations in terms of an authoritarian government verses a democracy. I fear the oil producing nations of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Qatar and the U.A.E. could eventually fall to freedom revolutions which have mutated into movements outside the control of the United States. Whether the current radical elements in the revolutionary movements will move to the forefront and possibly take control depends a lot on the current authoritarian regimes reaction to the freedom revolutions in each nation as well as future United States actions to safeguard the future of oil reserves and the dollar.

The fear of these movements sweeping the region is why the Obama Administration postponed actions which could have toppled Gaddafi weeks ago because another perceived victory there would have dramatically increased the growth and blitzkrieg effect of the revolutionary movements thus making them unstoppable and a real threat to first Bahrain and then Saudi Arabia etc. I previously discussed how the Libyan civil war is just a sideshow and deception to buy time and slow down what had been a cake walk by revolutionaries across the Middle East. The real action is in the Persian Gulf and the region is called the Persian Gulf because historically most of the region was under Persian (Iranian) influence.

Washington has successfully in the past chosen stability and tyranny in the region over the Arab people in the streets and now we are going to pay the price through the unintended consequences of our foreign policy in the region. This foreign policy failure when combined with Washington and Federal Reserve economic policies could be a lethal combination for the United States as well as the future of our children and grandchildren.

Our nation may well suffer severe economic consequences, a dollar and debt mini-collapse as well as the risk of a major war in the Persian Gulf region requiring an increasing degree of police state controls at home, the possible return of the draft and even a more authoritarian government in Washington. This is the dark future engineered by the Anglo-American monetary elites, some Washington politicians and the Federal Reserve which have put our currency at such risk.

The United States cannot allow new revolutionary governments outside our control to replace current regimes with political leaders which could threaten the dollar, our national debt and the US economy. If this becomes a risk, I fear the US military could be ordered to intervene and do whatever is necessary to either prop up or install new governments that will still continue to price oil in dollars. Frankly speaking should this situation develop, this may actually be the only way to defend a collapsing fiat dollar regardless of my personal views against military intervention.

The daily news reports continue to show the spread of revolutionary activity across the Middle East now directly impacting Syria, Jordan, Yemen and other nations around the periphery of Saudi Arabia. It appears the new social media driven freedom movements attack both US backed authoritarian regimes and enemies like Libya and Syria. What is often not recognized but apparent is the initial foreign intelligence involvement in the early birth of these revolutionary movements.

Regardless of their initial birth as engineered opposition movements by foreign intelligence, as has often been the case since the early 20th century, today these freedom movements have taken on a life of their own. They now threaten not only out of favor authoritarian leaders and enemy regimes but in the case of the United States, the modern day empire which covertly spawned the initial birth of the revolutions today.

Don Tapscott below certainly explains the situation in the region far better than I can and this is what we now face in the Middle East.

The real situation is "Revolution is not happening because of the current systems in place, it is happening despite them," he said. "In the Middle East the old thinking has been support tyrants because they provide stability and keep the oil flowing; the young people are revolting against this very kind of thinking….Technology is enabling revolutions across the Middle East. Young people do not want to be subjects anymore. Until now revolutions have had a leader, technology has changed that," ~ Don Tapscott, the co-author of "Macrowikinomics: Rebooting Business and the World."

The Law of Unintended Consequences

The US should have learned from Iraq and Afghanistan how the law of unintended consequences from aggressive military, political or covert actions in a complex system like the Middle East can often create undesirable outcomes far different from what was hoped. Just as our invasion of Iraq destroyed the major bulwark against Shiite Iran and actually created another Iranian ally. Also our Afghanistan venture destabilized Pakistan, and today the freedom revolutions are slowly surrounding the House of Saud and the major Persian Gulf oil producing and US debt holding nations. We should also remember how our blind backing of the Shah of Iran and his excesses helped bring about the Iranian Revolution of 1979 and the Khomeini led Islamic state and the problems we are dealing with today.

An excellent analogy of the unintended consequences is the long-term result of Germany introducing Lenin and communism to Czarist Russia during World War One. This was successful in the near term to take Russia out of the war and end Germany’s two front war. But the long-term result was a 70 year battle between the communist system and the West which created both the Cold War and contributed to the rise of Hitler in Germany as an alternative against a communist takeover in the 1930’s. Even now, most of the fabricated nations in the Middle East were actually created in London and Paris following the Treaty of Versailles and our oil and dollar controlled foreign policies there are a direct result of fake countries and boundaries created following the First World War almost a century ago.

America’s Weakest Point is the Persian Gulf

"The importance of maneuvering so your enemy is hit in his weakest points." ~ Sun Tzu’s, The Art of War

Although the United States is unassailable from a military standpoint in the region, the Washington dollar and Treasury debt are our weakest points and the entire world knows this.

If you have noticed, whenever Saudi Arabia is mentioned, the establishment news coverage is always followed by a comforting statement stressing how the House of Saud will somehow escape the political change in the region. The fall of the Saudi monarchy or serious unrest in the Shiite oil producing region of Saudi Arabia is the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to discuss or write about and why the threat is being ignored and going unaddressed.

The reason is all of the oil produced in the Persian Gulf region outside of Iran is currently priced in US dollars thus allowing the United States and the Federal Reserve to create more dollars at will. 87% of the oil exported out of the Persian Gulf is priced in US dollars and as I explained last week in The Great Anglo-American Gaddafi Deception, the pricing of oil in dollars is a major contributor to maintaining the dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency.

I believe the Washington Treasury debt and US dollar Ponzi scheme would risk collapse if these five nations mentioned above should threaten or seriously consider pricing oil in gold, Euros, SDR’s or any other currency other than dollars. In addition, Israel wouldn’t survive even with its feared Samson option for more than a few months if the US should lose in the region. Therefore the existence of Israel and the economic survival of the United States, our fiat dollar and the continued rollover of our Treasury debt are very dependent on friendly governments controlled and protected by Washington maintaining power at any price in the Persian Gulf.

Thus our economic future is only guaranteed by fake monarchs and Washington backed puppet regimes staying in power in the region. These are authoritarian regimes and dictatorships because the countries are artificial nations with questionable national boundaries. These nation states only began when needed by the British colonial office almost a century ago in London. In fact, the actual delineation of national borders only started with the first oil concessions in the 1930’s as the United Kingdom needed to map the different oil deposits and this was when the European modern nation state concept was first forced on the region by European powers.

Washington’s Greatest Fear Are the Color Revolutions Sweeping the Middle East

In Libya, the rebels are called the Interim National Council (INC) and apparently run by a former Libyan colonel Khalifa Hifter, who broke with Gaddafi over 20 years ago and has lived a quiet life with no visible means of support only a few miles from CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

Remember, the rebel forces were initially at the gates of Tripoli, when any kind of military or even diplomatic action would have overthrown Gaddafi but now once again they have been pushed back and cornered in Benghazi for the second time in several weeks after the use of air power.

Certainly the rebels have sadly been reduced to "dogs of war" and held on a leash by the US and allied elites in order to continue the sideshow action for entertainment and nightly news coverage as the new freedom revolutionaries are taught that victory can only be achieved by working within the confines of the Anglo-American paradigm.

What Will China Do? China can manipulate the foreign policy of the United States in the same way the United States forced the United Kingdom to withdraw its forces back during the Suez crisis. This was in 1956 when the UK, France and Israel invaded Egypt to take control over the Suez Canal. Washington threatened to dump the US Government's Sterling Bond holdings if Great Britain didn’t withdraw troops and the invasion ended.

What Will Iran Do? – They are masters at thinking long-term and I do not believe they will take any action to provoke a wounded beast like the Washington Empire. Iran has not invaded another nation in hundreds of years while you well know America’s sordid track record of aggression, drone attacks, aerial bombing and military occupation. Why should they? Their intelligence services were behind the fake weapons of mass destruction evidence in Iraq and they provoked the Bush Administration into invading Iran and toppling their major opponent in the Middle East. They will just sit back and let us do ourselves in.

What Should Americans Do?

• First, we need to audit and eliminate the Federal Reserve which is the vehicle the monetary elites use to enslave our nation and most of the rest of the world.
• Second, follow the real news on the Middle East with alternative news sites and email letters like LewRockwell.com, The Daily Bell and the Swiss Mountain Vision newsletter for which I’m also a contributing editor.
• Third, get as much of your wealth as possible legally and following all of the new reporting requirements out of the threatened fiat dollar currently being destroyed by Washington and the Federal Reserve. Consider other investments, currencies and real estate denominated in the Euro, Swiss franc etc. as well as gold and natural resource stocks. None of your wealth will be safe inside the United States if the dollar status as the reserve currency is compromised by the fall of Saudi Arabia and other friendly governments selling oil for dollars in the region.
• Store large amounts of gold outside the US in protected and safe jurisdictions in Europe, Australia and Switzerland in secure storage programs like Global Gold located in Switzerland.
• Finally oppose all future military activities in the Middle East as the unintended long-term consequences of US control in the region have historically far outweighed any near-term military gain advocated by the Neocons or profits for a few elite controlled financial institutions and international corporations.

If the Saudi Monarchy and other Persian Gulf dictators are overthrown by the current revolutionary movements, the debate will be shifted from should we go to war and occupy the region and restore stability (which actually means they continue to rollover treasury debt and price oil in dollars) to like the trial runs of 9/11 and the Fed induced meltdown, do we choose military action or risk economic and dollar collapse. Both Congress and the American people showed their preference for stability at any price including war and loss of liberties. Therefore I fear our conditioned response is already assured.

In the final analysis, the monetary elites are probably correct that their continued survival and parasitic control over much of the West can only be assured by full occupation of the oil resources of the region rather than depending on the former strategy of authoritarian regimes now shown to be weak and subject to powerful freedom movements.

Although all efforts will be made to stay outside the Moslem Holy cities of Mecca and Medina, a new foreign occupation of the Middle East although cloaked in some UN, NATO or Arab organization agreement will still be seen by the people in the street as another crusade for oil and against the Moslem world. This will be magnified if the US and their former colonial masters also utilize the forces of Israel in this repeat version of the 1956 Suez Crisis and takeover of the Suez Canal.

This kind of action although maybe necessary for the survival of the dollar and oil supplies could begin the end of the West as we know it. But then again, maybe that is the goal of the Anglo-American elites moving toward global governance and control by a few wealthy and powerful families? Maybe they can only succeed in their goals of one world government if they world they govern has become so desperate, poverty stricken and tired of permanent war that we will accept any limitation on our wealth and liberties to just survive.

After all, in the end, most people will sacrifice freedom and liberty for stability. It worked for the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany and since the end of World War Two in the Middle East. Why would this not work in Europe and America?

I guess Benjamin Franklin was right."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." We did this after the 9/11 attack, and we again allowed this to happen after the Federal Reserve created bubble and financial meltdown in 2008. I fear if history is any guide, America and the West will follow the same course of action again in the Middle East but this time straight to the slaughter house of perpetual war and the risk of economic poverty at home.

April 6, 2011

Ron Holland [send him mail] is a contributing editor to the Swiss Mountain Vision Newsletter and Chairman of the Advisory Board of the Foundation for the Advancement of Free-Market Thinking (FAFMT) in Vaduz, Liechtenstein.

Copyright © 2011 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given. http://www.lewrockwell.com/holland/holland45.1.html

Talks about how the House of Saudi has been protected and allowed to do what they please because of their power in the form oil, and about what will likely happen if the house of Saudi falls. For full disclosure, the author does make a pitch at a gold company that he is an investor of.

[isit5yet 37]

I'm only going to address this part for now because it made me laugh a lot reading through it.

The bolded part is especially funny when you read the rest of this paragraph. I never mentioned my affiliation, and I never got offended and didn't really overreact. But, if we read the rest of this paragraph, we see your overreaction. I never mentioned rednecks, working mothers, or NASCAR(which I also hate btw), but you tear off on some tangent about it all. IMO what makes a person more of an American than someone else has nothing to do with what generation they are(I'm only 2nd gen American), I think a person who gets their citizenship today can be much more of an American than someone who's family came over on the mayflower. It has to do with beliefs. It has to do with upholding and promoting the American dream and forwarding the American experiment. So yeah I'd say someone is less American if they don't believe and try to uphold the founding father's beliefs, than a person who does do that. I don't care much about political viewpoints if you read my post's there are a number of things that I'm on both sides of the aisle about, I don't affiliate with any one political party and think the retarded two party system we have is one of the biggest problems facing our nation. I also never brought up religion, I don't feel religion has any part in what makes a person more American than anyone else. I know devout atheists who want nothing more than to live word for by the constitution, some of the most libertarian people I know are atheist. I know it's 1930 anymore and many mothers aren't stay at home moms, nor do they need to be, I'm not a dr.laura fan. My mom has throughout my life and even today worked on average 50+ hours a week, and that number only climbed after my dad died, and she was promoted to VP of the bank she's at, now it's closer to 70 hours a week, and most weekends. Guns would be a whole other argument, but feel free to not own any, it means I can own more, and if the SEHTF, I'll be able to hunt for food and protect my family, and you'll need to find a different means of which to survive. No big deal, and no sweat off my brow. I will say though, on the topic of gun control, I own many firearms and definitely do fear that the government might decide to take them someday, especially since I live in CA, of the more than 40 I own about 6 are registered(most were purchased by my father before you had to register firearms), and those six will be reported stolen the day any such legislation passes. Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman, I think it's funny you say that about them, on the psychological level definitely shows a bit of jealousy towards their physical appearance, and you can rebut that all you want, but pretty much anyone would agree. They are both educated women, who believe they are doing what is best for their country, and if it helps their pocket book thats fine too, no different than anyone else. I always think it's funny how so many women out there belittle these two, and most other women on the right, like because they are conservative they must be less of a women and therefore not worthy of the women's rights movement. You objectify them, but probably get mad when people talk about how ugly Pelosi or Hilary are. You've come out as quite the hypocrite here already, and in just a couple of post's.

Sorry, I didn't know I needed to explain past tense versus present tense. When I said "I never mentioned..", that's past tense in reference to my past post. Since it's written in past tense, it obviously does not relate to what I wrote after it - the future. Glad you enjoyed you got a laugh at what you perceived as my failure, but was really your's. I enjoy seeing the kids get their GOP panties in a wad over a supposed liberal elitist. I'm surprised you're not crying in your Cheerios over Beck leaving his show for other developments.

Several uncompleted stints in Junior College does not make for an educated woman. Their physical appearance doesn't bother me; their need to USE it is as a tool to get the white, middle aged, Viagra vote is pathetic and demeaning. I also don't give a shit if someone calls Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi butch or ugly. They are grown women and can fend for themselves. So again, you're wrong.

How much time in the day do you need to comment on a Lap Band site, Huff Post, ride ATVs or do whatever you do? I've seen your posts as well (by the way, posts is plural and not something that gets an apostrophe to show possession). You contribute nothing to the board besides items the Rant thread, so you're now the Troll of Rantland.

[ariscus99 1]

Sorry, I didn't know I needed to explain past tense versus present tense. When I said "I never mentioned..", that's past tense in reference to my past post. Since it's written in past tense, it obviously does not relate to what I wrote after it - the future. Glad you enjoyed you got a laugh at what you perceived as my failure, but was really your's. I enjoy seeing the kids get their GOP panties in a wad over a supposed liberal elitist. I'm surprised you're not crying in your Cheerios over Beck leaving his show for other developments.

Several uncompleted stints in Junior College does not make for an educated woman. Their physical appearance doesn't bother me; their need to USE it is as a tool to get the white, middle aged, Viagra vote is pathetic and demeaning. I also don't give a shit if someone calls Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi butch or ugly. They are grown women and can fend for themselves. So again, you're wrong.

How much time in the day do you need to comment on a Lap Band site, Huff Post, ride ATVs or do whatever you do? I've seen your posts as well (by the way, posts is plural and not something that gets an apostrophe to show possession). You contribute nothing to the board besides items the Rant thread, so you're now the Troll of Rantland.

First of all, should I take the time to go back through all of your posts and critique the grammar of all of them(I don't have to go far, take a look at the bolded part of your last post, what is that supposed to say?)? No, that would be ridiculous, I'm not writing a paper for a class here I'm posting while doing other things so sometimes it may not be 100%, guess what, no one cares. I try not to go anywhere near the huffpost, I don't have an ATV, and if you've read through my post history as you claim you have you would see that I have indeed posted in many other area's on this board. You've been a member for 2 months, I've been here over 3 years, I've posted, PMed, and even become personal friends with multiple people on this site. You only show your ignorance to claim otherwise.

Sarah Palin has a BS in Communications Journalism with a minor in Poli-Sci. And Michelle Bachmann has a bachelors degree as well as a Masters of Law along with a JD. Definitely sounds like some community college girls who did nothing right?

You don't seem to comprehend much, as I've stated ad nauseam that I have no affiliation with GOP or republicans, and as I've stated before I've watched about 12 Glen Beck episodes dating back to when he was on HLN. You'd know that had you actually read my post's though. So if he has gone somewhere, you're obviously more aware of it than I am.

As for your message about past and present tense. If your comprehension skills were up to par you would see that I was pointing out in the bolded part that you were attempting to hammer me for assuming to know your political affiliation's, and how you assumed I got mad about it, then you turn and start making all kinds of assumptions about what I think real Americans are etc. It wasn't to say that you can't then tell me what you are, it was merely pointing out your hypocrisy.

[Alex Brecher 10,486]

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