So with the New Health Care Reform passed through the House. Who is for or against it?? Why or why not?

I am not in favor. My opinion (whether it's right or wrong) is why should we pay for the people who are too lazy to get a job just so they can have health insurance? Now it's different if they are disabled and unable to work. But these people who won't get off their butts to get a job shouldn't get subsidized health care that we, tax payers, are paying for!

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by TN_girl21

You mean that beeotch is still at it?

I cannot believe that the extreme right wing Republicans have been using lies for so long and people still want to believe them and still join their fight. It's been going on at least since Nixon (before that I was too young to attest to it) and continues today. There must be nothing that can be done to make people understand, laugh and turn their back on them.

People latch onto buzz words that sell units. Even when those units are not needed or wanted.

Good post, Cleo'sM

Thanks.

That's what they did with healthcare. They just put out a bunch of lies and kept repeating them:

-death panels, pulling the plug on granny, a government take over of healthcare, socialism, nazis, rationing, etc..

And since most people aren't like you and I who will educate themselves on issues, they just believe these soundbites and scare tactics. And people like karl rove, rush limbaugh, glenn beck and sarah palin know they work.

Bamablonde1, More stats. You guys are so good at stats and polls. Your saying in 2007 women in 20s had 60% of babies out of wedlock. If im not mistaken Bush was president. Hm, what could he have possibly done that would cause such a high divorce rate, and all those babies to be born out of wedlock. Could it be the stress put on military families of Bushes wars? Could it be the stress Americans felt from bushes economic failures, of course it probably only affected the democrats because we are all waiting for handouts.Again stop getting your ideas from tv, start thinking of your own ideas. If you notice, most dems(im ind) dont give poll results from tv or radio, there usually just opinions because we think for ourselves(we have alot of time on our hands waiting for handouts).

this is supposed to be in the paragraPH above, right after "theyre just opinions"because democrats dont claim to know all the answers, we will wait until the plan becomes reality and can get true info from people actually devising the plan. we dont try to guess or fabricate lies or give false info.

You tell 'em bob!

Patty ,as much as it kills me to say this, this is a big big win for republicans. Mass. is one state dems consider a sure win.Damn this sucks!

Now i wish someone could tell me what the republican health reform plan is. Status Quo,the insurance companies like all big business dictate cost,coverage. Boy, I wish i could control how much i charged people. The 7-11 guy told me this morning he can only get high risk insurance at 6-700 a month through the highmark plan, the same plan i had at 1800 a month for family, hes single. Anyway, he said "we dont need government reform, we need competition for existing healthcare companies".Where does he think that will come from now(without gov option which wouldnt be bought out),the insurance companies merge and create monopolies and dictate rising costs. I dont claim to know the answers, maybe this reform being proposed now isnt the answer but i dont think the republican answer(status quo) is the answer either.Well you all have a good day, I can see there will be no handouts now so i better go do some work!!!

Anybody watch the campaign in Mass? Was it a fair race? Did both sides get a little dirty or did one or the other side get really dirty? Did the Republicans do what they usually do, which is come up with some outrageous lie, broadcast it in ads and phone calls to such an extent that people believe it? Or did the Republican candidate win it on the issues? Or did the Democratic candidate lose it because she was really that bad?

I haven't been tracking it. Just wondering if any of you did.

there has always been a penalty in this country for being married.[end]

So, because of that you advocate making MORE penalties? Leave it to a liberal.

bjean QUOTE]I continue to be shocked and alarmed everyday by the incredible bias and ignorance of Americans. I'm shocked at how easily they are swayed by misrepresentations and untruths. And we all pay for their ignorance. [end]

You amaze me. You talk about the ignorance of those who don't agree with you, your fellow Americans, as if you are the most itelligent person alive. It's quite interseting how you call me arrogant because I believe I have the 'spiritual answers' when it comes to the bible, yet you can't see your own arrogance in thinking you have superior intelligence in comparrison to other Americans who disagree with you.

Uh yeah, because the Republicans didn't have anything to do with the disparity between married and single taxpayers. Uh huh. That's right. Sure.

Truth is, leave it to the liberal - it makes since - because they are actually the ones who have to follow the Republicans and get things back on track after the a Republican congress's slide into the abyss.

Edited January 20, 201016 yr by BJean

patty: "You amaze me. You talk about the ignorance of those who don't agree with you, your fellow Americans, as if you are the most itelligent person alive. It's quite interseting how you call me arrogant because I believe I have the 'spiritual answers' when it comes to the bible, yet you can't see your own arrogance in thinking you have superior intelligence in comparrison to other Americans who disagree with you."

I have no doubt that you are amazed by me. Many are. As they should be. Har!

I was talking about one thing and you turn it into something different. I wasn't talking about people that don't agree with me. I was talking about people who are gullible enough to believe the lies, misrepresentations and right wing rehtoric that the Republicans come up with.

I have no problem at all with honest, real, genuine Republicans who stand for honest, real and genuine conservative issues. And I never claimed that they aren't as smart as I am. In fact, I have never claimed to be smart. Except in jest.

What I was addressing with my comments is how the extremists who have taken over the Republican party use all kinds of subterfuge to win an election or an argument and that people fall for it. They jump on the buzz words, they believe stuff no matter how outlandish.

That's pretty stupid, even if it is fun to scrap and fight and put down the opposition. Because what they're fighting for is often not in their best interests. That's what I was talking about. And for some reason you went off in a different direction. Hmmmmm *she walks away scratching her head*

Bamablonde1, More stats. You guys are so good at stats and polls. Your saying in 2007 women in 20s had 60% of babies out of wedlock. If im not mistaken Bush was president. Hm, what could he have possibly done that would cause such a high divorce rate, and all those babies to be born out of wedlock. Could it be the stress put on military families of Bushes wars? Could it be the stress Americans felt from bushes economic failures, of course it probably only affected the democrats because we are all waiting for handouts.Again stop getting your ideas from tv, start thinking of your own ideas. If you notice, most dems(im ind) dont give poll results from tv or radio, there usually just opinions because we think for ourselves(we have alot of time on our hands waiting for handouts).

Ummmmmm... I'm not blaming the percentage of unplanned/unwed production on any 'party'. How stupid is that? See that’s just it, I’m a tad to smart to actually try and blame it on a party or (centrally) any of those other factors. I believe that to be more of a moral decline. Of course, if you look at issues like illegal immigration and welfare, it benefits those people to remain unwed. Also, many of the current tax perks that we are paying for benefit those same groups.

Furthermore, I note through your comments that you assume I am of a particular party. I'm of no particular party. I (like much of the population making a statement now) simply want what is best for this country. WE NEED OPTIONS!

And I don't agree 100% with the current war(s). I believe that it is of substance but I'm not convinced that it's our battle to fight beyond the 9/11 issues. We have far more important issues here at home. I think that illegal immigration is a far more serious and immediately threatening dilemma.

While finding myself not liberal, not dem, not republican, not right wing or of any other party - I feel that it is time for Americans across the board to take this country back to what we were founded on. Oh wait I just realized that makes me an independent as well! Hahaha! Bet that bites that there's an independent out there with a brain that disagrees with you and your tactics. Oopsy... gotta hate that!

There are 'dem issues' I agree with as with any other party. However, as a health care worker I fear for this country if this bill passes. I’ve yet to hear one good reason for this bill to pass. Everything I’ve heard that almost sounded good, was found counter-productive by other slated items and contingencies in the bill. Everyone would have insurance… ummm that’s a clear sign that someone DOESN’T know a dang thing about the bill they are trying to beef up. It won’t cover illegal immigrants – BS! You won’t have to wait for healthcare like other countries – Ummmmm yeah, try that one on someone else. No this won’t affect pharmaceutical companies and their motivation to continue producing new and updated drugs (which would also be a blow to the economy again) – Are you on drugs? It benefits everyone not just the people on welfare – You need to do some more research. I’ve not heard one good solid reason that this is in the best interest of Americans. The only person that seems to benefit from this would be the person that has no insurance at all and that is a situation that needs to be examined on a case by case basis for current or future logical options.

We do need competition in the health care industry. A wonderful option would be to allow shopping for health insurance much like auto insurance and doing away with or finding a way to modify cancellations or non-coverage due to certain conditions. Perhaps a sliding care for cost based on income. BUT NEVER EVER SHOULD WE ALLOW GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE! Have you looked at other countries with this model? Not to mention that every federally run thing I know of is a bust!

Is there really anyone here that can disagree with that? Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, is any part of that so object able that you fail to see the better interest in such 'across the board' options for everyone?

Now... since you want to as sumptuously attack my 'position' and can't play nice in the sandbox ...

I was not a Bush fan. Do I think he did as much damage as the Obama team? No. But I can say that the one thing Bush did that I deem truly controversial was war. I could do a whole laundry list on Obama and the current admin. Most importantly, he isn't listening to the people that voted him in. Can you say - personal agenda? Obama is a President with no former training, hence the whole failure of the hopey changey thing working out.

Perfect example of future politicians that seem to listen to those that voted them in - Scott Brown from Massachusetts. What happened last night was a modern day Tea Party!!! Mass has been a Dem state for a long time and the Republicans took it back. The people of this country are making a statement and Obama seems deadset on not 'hearing' us. I could care less if Brown were Dem or Rep, as long as he understands that he works for the people and proceeds with his elected position knowing that we've put him there to speak for us not to cast votes thinking that he knows what is best for us. The 'knowswhatsbestitis' is a very infectious disease that seems to have consumed Washington and spilled over.

Take the Harry Reid situation! *ugh* Who cares what party he is, I'm disgusted as we all should be! He point blank said, 'If you give me (how many MILLIONS?) in perks for my state, I'll vote for the bill!' Everyone with a brain should be disgusted by this! It's a buyout people!

Instead of fighting over Obama vs. Bush or Health Care Bill vs Current insurance issues... we should be bombarding Washington and demanding more OPTIONS!

Furthermore, the government needs to back off economic issues and let us do what we do best. The Entrepreneurs and business people of this great country will bring us back to where we once were IF allowed. Of course, if the government owns everything ... well that is a chapter we shouldn't allow to happen.

You are allowed to have and believe what you will as I research and do the same but I believe in America. I believe that we will take this country back and that is the CHANGE that we need. It may have to hit rock bottom for it to happen but I believe it will happen. What we are doing and what they are trying to do simply isn't working.

While remaining current and in the know on the things I believe in, I refuse to be aggressive with individuals that don't share my views. *grin* Ya know, you can't learn that way and it is truly indicative of a narrow minded mentality.

I'm all for a respective debate but perhaps you should know more about someone and their beliefs before you go into the typical opposition mode of 'your stupid and don't know what you are talking about b/c you don't believe the same as me' and try to place them into one of those little boxes because you got this one all wrong! I (like many others on here) don't fit a certain stereotype. Just like Mass race, the people will be heard.

When I have accused you of being arrogant it is usually in relation to your having made a generalization about someone's religious beliefs. You've declared that liberals are immoral and only care about themselves... or you've declared that the president isn't a Christian... or you've decided that a person isn't worthy of receiving a donation of food because they smoke... or other arrogant thought processes that you post here.

As for all things spiritual and you - I think you are on a quest to learn more but you just don't realize it. On the surface you seem to believe that you have all the answers because God has told you so through the Bible. But what I've said is that you're not done yet. And until you set aside the thoughts that you have the answers and that you are equipped to form your own personal mission to make people aware of what they should be believing, you won't get it. There is a passage in the Bible that tells us that very thing. In fact, there's more than one. But I will allow you to find them for yourself because that is what God wants for you.

Anybody watch the campaign in Mass? Was it a fair race? Did both sides get a little dirty or did one or the other side get really dirty? Did the Republicans do what they usually do, which is come up with some outrageous lie, broadcast it in ads and phone calls to such an extent that people believe it? Or did the Republican candidate win it on the issues? Or did the Democratic candidate lose it because she was really that bad?

I haven't been tracking it. Just wondering if any of you did.

Of course I watched it! It was the biggest, most important win for my side. If the dems couldn't get MA, they wont be able to get anywhere else, and that's reassuring to me. It had been nearly 40 years since they haven't had had a dem elected there. It's more than the outrage over the corrupt way the 'geniuses':rolleyes: practice lawmaking- the Louisiana purchase, The cornhusker kickback, last weeks $60 Billion dollar bribe to buy Big Labor support for Obamacare, etc.- They have figured out that Obama turned out to be a garden variety socialist with contempt for the nation's bedrock principles that a growing majority of Americans belatedly realized they still hold dear. Americans are fed up with government of the politicians, by the politicians and for the politicians; with crooked incumbents who do the bidding of their party instead of their constituents; and with haughty liberals who think they are so much smarter than everyone else. The results of this election shows that the people believe it is about time for regular folks to reclaim their government and turn the reins over to people whose judgement is sound, whose intentions are pure, whose votes aren't for sale. Brown won, becuase he wasn't a democrat, and because he understands what the people really want.:biggrin:

Oooh Blondie, you really let us have it didn't you? Well that was a cool post because it points out very clearly that you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to the proposed health care bill. You've bought into the stuff the Republicans are marketing, hook, line and sinker. The government won't be running health care if it passes. But that is just a small part of the laundry list of things you're goofed up on.

You haven't heard one good thing about changing health care because you've closed your mind to it. You've listened to those who oppose it and haven't listened to those who support it. Because if you did, you wouldn't be saying some of the incorrect things that you said.

And not only have you not listened to anything that is supportive of changing the health care industry, you don't seem to realize the reason behind the fat cats in Washington lobbying against the change.

You need to listen to both sides of the argument and become better informed about what a change could mean to the regular citizens in the U.S., instead of just worrying about the insurance companies, pharmacuticals and hospitals profits.

Or are you in the health care industry and know everything and are just joining in the job of misleading the public because you stand to profit from it?