I was scheduled to be banded next week until last night I decided to look at the before and after pics, and gave myself cold feet.

I was startled by the number of people posting there that have since (noticed the updates in signatures) had slips, erosions, needed a new band, "upgraded" to the sleeve or RNY, etc. It seemed to me, it was more common than not to have some sort of complication and additional surgery following the initial band for those people that got it in 2004-05.

I got so diseartened and scared, I called my doctor and cancelled my surgery today

What exactly is the average lifespan of a band?

What % of patients are still happy bandsters 5 years down the road?

Do people being banded today have better odds at band success than those being banded 5 years ago (since it's more common, more practiced doctors)?

The thought of losing this weight of my own, without the tool of WLS for support, is overwhelming. I have been dieting or "changing my lifestyle" for the past 15 years at least and all I have to show for it is an extra 80 lbs on my body.

But the thought of going thousands of dollars in debt (yay for self-pay!) for a surgery that will only work as intended for 2-3 years....

I feel so ambivalent about the surgery now... I wonder if I chickened out over isolated, rare, incidents or if my impression was correct.

Can someone point me to some information (either studies, statistics, or personal stories) about actual long term results with this surgery?

Nurse09:

You have posted many times that the band is the safest and most effective WLS on the market today. I asked you to provide proof of this. I know you are reading, you were reading this very thread yesterday morning. So are you still looking for peer reviewed studies that show you are correct?

I asked you to prove your own claims. Where's the proof?

I also asked you to defend your claim that the sleeve has been proven to be ineffective although it's the fastest growing surgery today. Where is that proof?

Instead of providing proof to back up your claims you just disappear. Why is that?

Yes, I hold you to higher standards than I would others. You claim to be a nurse, your profile shows you wearing your cap. People put more stock into a medical professional and when you post sheer nonsense I am going to call you on it each and every time. If you are a professional (and since you are a nurse I certainly hope you are professional) you will either admit you posted incorrect information due to human error or you will post your proof. That just isn't asking too much.

You have lectured me time and time again on what I need to do to lose weight. I have lost 132#. I am at goal, I have a BMI of 20. I have maintained this for 1.5 years. In another post you wrote that you have lost 59# in 16 months. What's the deal here? You keep telling me that I need to follow my doctors instructions. You tell me, who followed their doctors instructions? You or me?

Cheers.

I'd have to see how they go about tracking their numbers before blindly believing any doctor's claims. I've been watching doctors make big claims for 25 years now. I'd have to see the details before I'd believe them.

I thought it was obvious since they make more money with the RnY that it would be a point of candor to admit that that the LB was working as well. Thus, it would make no sense not to believe them.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, you've obviously done a lot of research, but after reading all of your posts I get the general sense, with all due respect, that blosmtx and others are persons looking for validation for a decision already made rather than using the research in more objective fashion to find a knowable fact. In business, salesman are taught that people ALWAYS make a purchase decision with their right brain. They like to read through facts and figures, but ultimately decide with their gut. (no pun intended)

But that's fine, do what you feel is right. No one here will stop you or judge you.

But it is naive to the extreme to think you would not get a little push back from recent bandsters when you are, in effect, flaming a Lap Band board.

If you want validation, go over to the Sleeve board for heaven's sake.

I need validation for what I have done so I'm staying here on the LapBand board. I'm not going over to the Sleeve board to look for validation in NOT getting a Sleeve. Thanks for nothing blosmtx.

Now that I look back on this entire thread, it all seems so absurd for it to even be on this board.

But no, you have to come over here to the frickin' LapBandTalk board, to research us bandsters into a fit of maniacal depression. Great, I've got a gun to my head now. Are you frickin' happy?

Thanks for nothing WASaBubbleButt. I guess now you're just a hard @$$. (couldn't help it)

With all due respect and no offense intended. If any offense has been taken I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks.

Edited August 14, 200916 yr by Albacheeser

I thought it was obvious since they make more money with the RnY that it would be a point of candor to admit that that the LB was working as well. Thus, it would make no sense not to believe them.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, you've obviously done a lot of research, but after reading all of your posts I get the general sense, with all due respect, that blosmtx and others are persons looking for validation for a decision already made rather than using the research in more objective fashion to find a knowable fact. In business, salesman are taught that people ALWAYS make a purchase decision with their right brain. They like to read through facts and figures, but ultimately decide with their gut. (no pun intended)

But that's fine, do what you feel is right. No one here will stop you or judge you.

But it is naive to the extreme to think you would not get a little push back from recent bandsters when you are, in effect, flaming a Lap Band board.

If you want validation, go over to the Sleeve board for heaven's sake.

I need validation for what I have done so I'm staying here on the LapBand board. I'm not going over to the Sleeve board to look for validation in NOT getting a Sleeve. Thanks for nothing blosmtx.

Now that I look back on this entire thread, it all seems so absurd for it to even be on this board.

But no, you have to come over here to the frickin' LapBandTalk board, to research us bandsters into a fit of maniacal depression. Great, I've got a gun to my head now. Are you frickin' happy?

Thanks for nothing WASaBubbleButt. I guess now you're just a hard @$$. (couldn't help it)

With all due respect and no offense intended. If any offense has been taken I reserve the right to revise and extend my remarks.

Quite frankly I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I don't know what a push back is. I do not understand what your problem is with blosmtx.

Why is it that bandsters confusing "flaming" with "stats and facts"? Why is that threatening? If you have done your research and you chose the right surgery type for you why is it a threat when the same research you read pre op is presented for noobs?

What makes you think that doctors make more money with bypass than banding? They can do one bypass in 2.5 hours or they can do 5 bands in 2.5 hours. Hello? How does this make more money for them? With bands doctors have business for life in aftercare. With bypass people typically go to their PCP for follow up labs.

I have had a band and a sleeve. The band was not for me, the sleeve is great FOR ME. I wish I had the US long term studies on bands and sleeves when I was banded, I didn't have that honor because they did not exist at that time. Both just came out last year. I want others to have ALL the facts and not the feel good, "bands are safer than anything in the whole wide world," line of crap that simply is not true.

It seems to me that you are only wanting positives and not neutrality on this board. I ask you, is that fair to those researching their surgery choice? It also seems to me that you are putting your desire for validation in your surgery choice over noobs doing their research. How is that right?

And finally, I am not responsible for your choice in surgery types, I am not responsible for your mood. I am not responsible for validating your surgery options. Don't even try to blame me. You are responsible for those things, 100%.

Quite frankly I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I don't know what a push back is. I do not understand what your problem is with blosmtx.

Why is it that bandsters confusing "flaming" with "stats and facts"? Why is that threatening? If you have done your research and you chose the right surgery type for you why is it a threat when the same research you read pre op is presented for noobs?

What makes you think that doctors make more money with bypass than banding? They can do one bypass in 2.5 hours or they can do 5 bands in 2.5 hours. Hello? How does this make more money for them? With bands doctors have business for life in aftercare. With bypass people typically go to their PCP for follow up labs.

I have had a band and a sleeve. The band was not for me, the sleeve is great FOR ME. I wish I had the US long term studies on bands and sleeves when I was banded, I didn't have that honor because they did not exist at that time. Both just came out last year. I want others to have ALL the facts and not the feel good, "bands are safer than anything in the whole wide world," line of crap that simply is not true.

It seems to me that you are only wanting positives and not neutrality on this board. I ask you, is that fair to those researching their surgery choice? It also seems to me that you are putting your desire for validation in your surgery choice over noobs doing their research. How is that right?

And finally, I am not responsible for your choice in surgery types, I am not responsible for your mood. I am not responsible for validating your surgery options. Don't even try to blame me. You are responsible for those things, 100%.

What SHE said. :thumbup:

HH

Quite frankly I don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I don't know what a push back is. I do not understand what your problem is with blosmtx.

The term "push back" is a commonly used term that means, amongst other things "a defensive reaction in response to a perceived provocation." For example, when one asks their children to go to bed, one often gets "push back" from them

The rest of your post explains my point for me. If you found nirvana with the Sleeve, then why are you even here? Go to the Sleeve board.

If the person that backed out of the band to go with the Sleeve wanted validation and/or support than why would they not go to the Sleeve board? Maybe I'm missing something.

Generally, what I have been responding to here is the nature of the pro-sleeve posters that goes much farther than supporting the person but also engaging bandsters in superfluous and antagonous debate about research.

The question I honestly have is why would a Sleevester feel the need to come and engage bandsters when you claim to be happy about your choice and respect the choices of others? The answer must be that you're looking for validation. If that is the case, then, I'm simply stating that this is the wrong place to look for it.

By the way, everything I said about my "mood" etc. was complete hyperbole and exaggeration. I'm perfectly happy with where I am. I was simply demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

Edited August 14, 200916 yr by Albacheeser

This has long since turned personal. I question the propriety of airing it here.

What makes you think that doctors make more money with bypass than banding? They can do one bypass in 2.5 hours or they can do 5 bands in 2.5 hours. Hello? How does this make more money for them? With bands doctors have business for life in aftercare. With bypass people typically go to their PCP for follow up labs.

That is demonstrably not accurate. The research I have done says that the LapBand takes 45mins to 1 hr. (mine took about an hour) and RnY takes 2.5 hrs or so. And they charge accordingly. The difference in the nature of the surgery is why the get more. The point is that the surgical firm has NO axe to grind either way. They can make money either way.

My surgery was substantially less expensive than my sisters.

Edited August 14, 200916 yr by Albacheeser

This has long since turned personal. I question the propriety of airing it here.

I agree and don't feel comfortable about it, I just got to the point where it became so absurd for me to look for LapBand support on a board where many belittle bandsters and those that support the procedure. So I got frustrated (I'm A.D.D. and suffer from low frustration tolerance. - not an excuse just a reason)

I was warned to stick with obesityhelp.com by my surgeon and now I know why.

I apologize if anyone has been offended.

The rest of your post explains my point for me. If you found nirvana with the Sleeve, then why are you even here? Go to the Sleeve board.

Why wouldn't I come here? I have spent more time banded than I have sleeved. I have a lot of information. There are a lot of struggling bandsters. Why wouldn't I offer what I know? There is also a section for band complications and band removal, why wouldn't I post there?

I think you have made it clear that you only want people posting that will validate your choice, tell only the upsides of surgery, and never dare tell the negative sides. It's not going to happen. That's not how message boards work.

People who are researching need all sides of the issue, they need to know the good and the bad before they can make a good decision. They need to read links, studies, talk to those that both like and dislike the band. That's called research.

If the person that backed out of the band to go with the Sleeve wanted validation and/or support than why would they not go to the Sleeve board? Maybe I'm missing something.

I thought the OPs post was a fantastic post! They were wanting info before jumping into something which is what a great many people do. If she was planning on a band but was unsure, why is it a horror for her (him? her?) to post on both boards? I think you are being quite unreasonable.

Generally, what I have been responding to here is the nature of the pro-sleeve posters that goes much farther than supporting the person but also engaging bandsters in superfluous and antagonous debate about research.

No, we disagree. When a person who claims to be a nurse is spreading around very incorrect medical and statistical information it needs to be corrected. People tend to put more stock into info posted by someone with a license relating to medicine vs. someone who does not. When that information is dead wrong and even the band makers are not making those claims, it needs to be pointed out and corrected.

The question I honestly have is why would a Sleevester feel the need to come and engage bandsters when you claim to be happy about your choice and respect the choices of others? The answer must be that you're looking for validation. If that is the case, then, I'm simply stating that this is the wrong place to look for it.

Because I don't like closed perspectives and closed worlds. I also post on a revision board, an RNY board, a general board, an "at goal" board, sleeve boards, all kinds of boards. I'm not one to stop learning and hide my head in the sand. I want to know everything related to WLS. Don't you? I'm not sure what I would need validation for. I'm healthy, I'm at goal, I'm maintaining a 20BMI well for over a year and a half, I can eat anything I want, I have no food restrictions, what is it specifically that you think I need validation? Please, be specific.

This has long since turned personal. I question the propriety of airing it here.

See above.

That is demonstrably not accurate. The research I have done says that the LapBand takes 45mins to 1 hr. (mine took about an hour) and RnY takes 2.5 hrs or so. And they charge accordingly. The difference in the nature of the surgery is why the get more. The point is that the surgical firm has NO axe to grind either way. They can make money either way.

My surgery was substantially less expensive than my sisters.

You may not understand how an OR works. The time the surgeon is actually in the OR working on a patient is about 30 minutes unless the surgeon is unskilled and a dolt. It takes time to put the patient to sleep, prep the patient, drape the patient, then the surgeon comes in and does surgery. He leaves, the anesthesiologist wakes up the patient and he's taken to recovery. The surgeon's job is about 30 minutes, the patient is in the OR for about 45-60 minutes.

I agree and don't feel comfortable about it, I just got to the point where it became so absurd for me to look for LapBand support on a board where many belittle bandsters and those that support the procedure. So I got frustrated (I'm A.D.D. and suffer from low frustration tolerance. - not an excuse just a reason)

I was warned to stick with obesityhelp.com by my surgeon and now I know why.

I apologize if anyone has been offended.

If you think OH is any different, you are in error. Message boards are what they are. Period. Posting stats and facts isn't belittling banded folks. It's called adult posting. What it does seem to be is threatening to you for some reason. You made the right decision for you, so what's your problem?

I was warned to stick with obesityhelp.com by my surgeon and now I know why.

Heh... I have to laugh. I was just over at OH band boards (gasp!) and I was reminded of this thread. Just from last week.

Would you do it again? Everyone please answer

Yessssss, I can see why your surgeon suggests you post on OH. ;o)

Okay,

I usually stay out of these threads once it looks like it's becoming band vs sleeve (and there are getting to be more and more of them recently) but I have to admit that I too am dismayed at how often a simple question by a newbie turns into a to-and-fro about how the sleeve is superior to the band and vice versa ("and here are the stats to prove it etc etc").

I know there are potential complications with the band, as there are with most WLS (and 1% vs 10% just doesn't matter when you're the one affected, IMO). I also know there appears that generally people have more success with the sleeve (on average however, so individually, it's still an unknown until after you've had the surgery). The sleeve, by all accounts, does in fact seem to be the newest and brightest thing in WLS, just as the band was not too long ago.

But I am very happy to be banded. I did not have complications, it wasn't hard for me to lose the weight and I had great success with the band. It continues to be 'easy' for me, and if asked, I would recommend it, with the caveat that the person do their own research and be aware of the risks (as you would with ANY surgery).

I would like to be able to tell someone who's wondering if the band works that, yes, it does, without having to defend that assertion with statistics, science and comparative studies. Why would I have to? I know it works because it worked for me.

I would like to explain that I decided on the band because the sleeve was still unproven at the time, or that I didn't (at the time) want to have such invasive surgery, without having to defend my own, very personal, reasoning. Those WERE the reasons I chose the band. Why can't I say so?

I also would have hated it, when I was thinking about getting the band, to have had my thread degenerate into a spat between people who forget I'm even here. If that had happened, and I got scared off the band, I wouldn't have lost the weight I have.

So if someone asks about the band, I will respond positively because it's what I have and it's what has worked for me. I then hope that it doesn't end up like this thread has, where everyone feels like they have to be right, when we all know that it's very possible that depending on the individual, either, both or neither could be right.

So enough already with this 'us' and 'them' b*llshit that seems to be happening more and more around here. I know I'm not the only one sick to death of it.

Edited August 15, 200916 yr by lellow

Okay,

I usually stay out of these threads once it looks like it's becoming band vs sleeve (and there are getting to be more and more of them recently) but I have to admit that I too am dismayed at how often a simple question by a newbie turns into a to-and-fro about how the sleeve is superior to the band and vice versa ("and here are the stats to prove it etc etc").

I know there are potential complications with the band, as there are with most WLS (and 1% vs 10% just doesn't matter when you're the one affected, IMO). I also know there appears that generally people have more success with the sleeve (on average however, so individually, it's still an unknown until after you've had the surgery). The sleeve, by all accounts, does in fact seem to be the newest and brightest thing in WLS, just as the band was not too long ago.

But I am very happy to be banded. I did not have complications, it wasn't hard for me to lose the weight and I had great success with the band. It continues to be 'easy' for me, and if asked, I would recommend it, with the caveat that the person do their own research and be aware of the risks (as you would with ANY surgery).

I would like to be able to tell someone who's wondering if the band works that, yes, it does, without having to defend that assertion with statistics, science and comparative studies. Why would I have to? I know it works because it worked for me.

I would like to explain that I decided on the band because the sleeve was still unproven at the time, or that I didn't (at the time) want to have such invasive surgery, without having to defend my own, very personal, reasoning. Those WERE the reasons I chose the band. Why can't I say so?

I also would have hated it, when I was thinking about getting the band, to have had my thread degenerate into a spat between people who forget I'm even here. If that had happened, and I got scared off the band, I wouldn't have lost the weight I have.

So if someone asks about the band, I will respond positively because it's what I have and it's what has worked for me. I then hope that it doesn't end up like this thread has, where everyone feels like they have to be right, when we all know that it's very possible that depending on the individual, either, both or neither could be right.

So enough already with this 'us' and 'them' b*llshit that seems to be happening more and more around here. I know I'm not the only one sick to death of it.

I don't think it's fair to present an all or none picture of this thread. I have had the band and revised to a sleeve after 3 years of band intolerance. I know several people who have the band and continue to do well with it.

You stated you might have had the sleeve if more were known at the time that you had your band placed. I agree with you as I would have also. Knowing how much better the VSG surgery is for ME and having had the band and some of it's associated complications, my desire is to let those considering the band that it's NOT the only WLS option.

Bottom line? Figure out what type of eater you are, talk to surgeons who perform various types of WLS, do independent research, and make an informed decision for YOURSELF.

Actually I'm not sure I might have had a sleeve if more had been known about it. I might have still had the band. But at the time, I didn't even consider a sleeve because of the band, esp here in Australia, was proven to work. And by all accounts, it has worked for me, so while I did suffer from 'sleeve-envy' for a while when I used to read all the posts about how the sleeve was purportedly superior to the band, I can't really knock my band because, well, it did what I hoped it would do. :biggrin:

I do wish to clarify, though, that I don't expect or want threads to become all about the band or all about the sleeve. What I do hope for is for them not to keep becoming about one vs the other in such an argumentative way, because I do think it's quite off-putting, to me and I'm sure to many others.

Because as you say, some people do better with the band, and others with the sleeve. I think both views can be represented without it turning into a spat, surely?

Edited August 15, 200916 yr by lellow

Actually I'm not sure I might have had a sleeve if more had been known about it. I might have still had the band. But at the time, I didn't even consider a sleeve because of the band, esp here in Australia, was proven to work. And by all accounts, it has worked for me, so while I did suffer from 'sleeve-envy' for a while when I used to read all the posts about how the sleeve was purportedly superior to the band, I can't really knock my band because, well, it did what I hoped it would do. :biggrin:

Then there was no reason for you to have had "sleeve envy" in the first place. Had my band not effected my life so negatively and worked as yours did, I would still have mine.

I do wish to clarify, though, that I don't expect or want threads to become all about the band or all about the sleeve. What I do hope for is for them not to keep becoming about one vs the other in such an argumentative way, because I do think it's quite off-putting, to me and I'm sure to many others.

People are passionate about their choice of a weight loss surgery so it's natural to have a certain level of argument. What is NOT good is when people make claims that are NOT based on personal experience that they can't back up with peer reviewed research. Those who DO have research to back up a non-personal claim (or a personal one) are often labeled as argumentative when, in actuality, they are educating others.

Because as you say, some people do better with the band, and others with the sleeve. I think both views can be represented without it turning into a spat, surely?

Absolutely, but I don't limit discussion to band and/or sleeve. Having had both of those surgeries, I can speak from personal experience. RNY and DS are two other WLS procedures that might be best for some. One needs to pick the best surgery for him/her and not choose a surgery because it worked for others.

Ok Wasabubblebutt i am here now so you can stop leaving me messages private or otherwise!

Now i would like to say that what i said about the lap band being the most effective was incorrect and i misspoke on that. i should not have said that it is the most effective, because that is not accurate to say. that is not what i meant to say. what i meant to say is that the band can be successful if used properly. just as with the sleeve or any other WLS. All of the surgeries have risk and complications and all of them have shown people with success and failure. At the end of the day it is up to the person that has the surgery( which ever that one may be) to do the work to maintain any weight they will lose. so i would like to apologize to anyone that has read my post if i lead you to believe that the band is the most effective on the market, because i can't say that for sure. i can only say that i am happy i chose the band and wouldn't go any other way.

next i would like to say i am happy you made your goal and hope you are able to maintain it through life. your question to me was what have I lost and where am I at with the band. the answer is in my blog ( as you have read already) but i will tell you once again. I have lost 54lbs ( not 59lbs as you stated in a earlier post) and have gained 7lbs back. i am not proud of this fact, because i had the surgery to lose weight not gain it. But never the less i have gained some back. I have gained some back because I had not been to the doctor in 5 months and did not keep up with my fills as i should have( which anyone who knows about how the band works knows that is a vital key in your success) so no wasabubblebutt i have not followed my doctors instructions entirely, but that is why i came on this forum for SUPPORT. I guess that is why most people do come on here. Not to debate about what surgery they should or should not have. you seem to think i was referring to you in the previous post when i was talking about how to maintain success with the band. i was not talking to you nor was i trying to lecture you on weight loss. i was simply stating facts about how people that are obese or over weight think. i know because not only am i one of those people i know several people who are. now you stated to me that YOU made your goal and that is great, but i am not you. i am 16 months out and i have not made my goal. Everyone is different no matter what weight loss surgery you get. so i really don't know what you were trying to prove or get to by making that statement. i started out at a pretty high weight and that does make a difference on if you succeed with the band or not. people that are morbidly obese ( as i am) may not be as successful with the band. i knew that before having the surgery but decided to do it anyway.

the point is we can go back in forth until the cows come home, but it will not make you or i right or wrong either way. you have your opinion and i have mine. you can show studies and i can show studies but at the end of the day thats all they are. what matters is what decison each person makes for themselves and what works best for that person.

now i have noticed that you seem to have to be right and if you debate with alot of people on here. You also say you are a nurse and have questioned my professionalism. you were right about one thing as a nurse we should not try and mislead anyone. we should present all the facts and we should show both sides not just the side we want, but yet you are on here trying to convince everyone that the sleeve is the best thing for them. You also told the person that made the original post that they should go with the sleeve over the lap band. well as a nurse you should know better. you would know as a nurse that it is not in our scope of practice to give medical advice( and telling someone or advising them to do something is giving medical advice) it is actually unlawful and if that person takes your advice and something happens. that person can come back and sue you, because you are not a doctor and you should not tell anyone what to do or not do as far as medical things go. you can try to educate them as us nurses do, but never tell them to go one way or the other. so from one nurse to another i would suggest you watch what advice you give, because it could come back to bite you in the butt. BTW if you do not believe i am a nurse then feel free to call the Iowa Board of Nursing and they can confirm it for me.

Also i never once told anyone in my post to have the lapband done or not done. i should have just been more clear that it is all just my opinion.

oh yes you also posted a website for me to go read about your "research statistics" well i have to laugh because they only compared a few hundred people and if you think that is accurate then i guess that is what you believe.

The bottom is that you will believe what you believe and i will believe what i believe. Does it make you right? NO! Does it make me right? NO! It just makes two people with their own opinions. You stated you made goal with the lap band so you know how it works. Well i guess my question to you is if that is true why did you switch to the sleeve?

my opinion( and only my opinion) i think you may want to find something else to do with your time that is more productive then to come on a forum and try and debate with the people that do not agree with you. Debating is fine but you try and make people believe what you believe and that is not fine. the guy in the other post is correct in saying if you believe so strongly in the sleeve then you should stay on that site and leave this one alone. You have posted something on almost everyones comment as if you are all knowing and no one is all knowing dear. I think you may want to ask yourself why after losing all your weight you still are not happy. i mean( and just my opinion) someone that is happy surely wouldn't spend so much time on the computer arguing with everyone on it. would they? i would think not, but that is just me.

so i guess the bottom line is i am not going to and will continue to go back and forth with you. i came on here to talk to people about their success or failures with the lap band and vice versus. i also came on here for support and hope that i can help someone as well. i did not come on here to argue with anyone. i just believe that is counter productive and will not do it any more.

so once again congrats on your success of weight loss and i do wish you the best for the future.

Edited August 15, 200916 yr by nurse09