Miss California, Carrie Prejean, was runner up for the Miss USA Pageant. She answered a question about gay marriages, and gave her opinion on what she feels about homosexuals being allowed to get married. She said that she feels they should not be married. She was told by her state sponsors that she needed to apologize to the gay community. They also told her to not talk about her beliefs. She refused to do so. Since when, in this country, can't you speak your opinion, without being bashed for it? The homosexual community has no problem telling others how they feel about it. I don't agree with them, but I'm not asking for an apology from anyone who's gay.

I applaud her for standing up for what she felt was the right answer and not backing down on her beliefs when the question was posed. She was representing the majority of the people in California when she gave her answer, after all.

I believe that if you are homosexual and you want to live that life style, it's your life, so go ahead. But I also believe that God instituted the marriage union between a man and a woman together. They say their vows to Him. So, to call the homosexual lifestyle a 'marriage' is a wrong term for it. It's not a marriage. Why can't they call it a civil union, or anything else they like. Like maybe "Partnership" or how about "a love unit". Whatever. The term 'marriage' is already taken. They can still have all the same rights as married couples do. Why aren't they satisfied with that? Do they just like to argue?

DownIn: There are definitely toothless, backwoods folks in Virginia. Some of them have such an accent I would defy most other Americans to understand them.

But there are also Virginians who are some of the most sophisticated people in the world.

Which is another illustration of why it is downright stupid to slap a tag on people and declare that they are smart and good or that they are dumb and evil.

One thing I know for sure: the color of one's skin, or one's sexual preferences or the choice of one's church, do not reveal whether a person is good or bad. You have to dig much deeper than those superficial things to find out whether you're dealing with a person of quality and high moral values.

Yes and that is why I stated that I would not presume she is backwoods and toothless. She seems to be a very intelligent woman. I was using it as a prop of how bad it is to cast such broad strokes. I admit it did not come across well and my apologies to anyone who is from the great state of Virginia or missing teeth.

Beth: "Socal, this isn't about me, and you have no power to keep me on any "hook". I know you want to MAKE it about me, but it's not."

Wait just a damn minute... are you the same Beth who has raised hell with me for using angry sounding language?? If you're going to play the blame game and go on the record here calling homosexuals derrogatory names, you can't expect for others who find it ugly and distasteful to let it pass unnoticed.

You don't allow anyone else to get away with it.

Like Socal, your "angry language" has been directed at me and other posters here that you have disagreed with. You can't separate the conversation from the individual you disagree with and tend to eventually make it personal when you can no longer argue the facts of the conversation. Granted, I'm not saying I've never responded in kind, but Socal making her comments personal because she doesn't like that I called ONE person some names is rather silly. I have used no derogatory language towards anybody here who has posted their feelings.

I called ONE homosexual those two derogatory names. If others find it distasteful, they are as welcome to find it so as I am to consider it fitting for that ONE individual.

Yes and that is why I stated that I would not presume she is backwoods and toothless. She seems to be a very intelligent woman. I was using it as a prop of how bad it is to cast such broad strokes.

Where did I use "broad strokes"?? I called ONE PERSON those names, and I only mean them towards that ONE PERSON. Okay, often I feel the same towards Rosie O'Donnell, but that's another story.

I admit it did not come across well and my apologies to anyone who is from the great state of Virginia or missing teeth.

You mean your hate speech where you essentially attacked an entire state of people who are innocent in all of this? And you say I am about hate speech?? Hm, my attack was against one person. Yours was aimed at about 4.5 million. Nice.

But thank you for showing YOUR true colors.

luluc: I think most Americans probably don't give a darn about the issue. I think a whole lot of Americans haven't given it much thought at all. If this issue were out on the table and there were pro and anti arguments for everyone to hear, an opportunity for there to be open debate on a regular basis, the outcome could change.

It's like abortion rights in a way. It doesn't affect most people and so they might say they believe one way or the other, but when the real arguments get put forth, they surprise even themselves sometimes by realizing that they do not want to vote against women's right to choose on such a very personal issue.

Gay rights are very personal - to gays. For other people, it just doesn't affect them in any way and won't ever affect them. So who's arguing against gay rights? The very religious folks who are doing it because they hear only one side of the issue and they have heard it all their lives and they continue to hear it often and loudly. It's an abomination. God says it's an abomination. So enter into the bedrooms of gay people and stand in judgment. Do not allow them their right to all the things that heretosexual people have in this country. God says it's the right thing to do. But in fact, IMHO, it is not.

Nor is it the right thing to do to allow the government to intervene when a woman finds herself pregnant when she did not plan it and when she is not able to safely bring a child into the world.

Nothing I have said states that it is good for people to be homosexuals. Nothing I have said states that it is good for women to have abortions. What I've said is that it is Constitutionally correct to allow gays and women all the rights (including the right to privacy) that they deserve in our this country.

Where did I use "broad strokes"?? I called ONE PERSON those names, and I only mean them towards that ONE PERSON. Okay, often I feel the same towards Rosie O'Donnell, but that's another story.

You mean your hate speech where you essentially attacked an entire state of people who are innocent in all of this? And you say I am about hate speech?? Hm, my attack was against one person. Yours was aimed at about 4.5 million. Nice.

But thank you for showing YOUR true colors.

That state of Virginia's population is about 7.7 million. I am not sure why you dropped the other 3.2 million. Perhaps they are not Christian?

Anyway I apologized to all Virginian's (that includes you), the toothless, and I will add anyone who lives in the backwoods to that. I don't use that kind of language and explained it came across wrong. I can own my mistakes.

Aw Beth, get real! You have said some very personally hurtful things directly to me on other threads. And I have read things that you've directed at other people that were downright hateful. This is not an isolated case where you, uncharacteristically, used rough language. I'm not letting you off the hook either. Because by dang, you have been guilty many times of doing the very things that you accuse others of doing. Sometimes in fact, I wonder if you just write things really fast and don't proof read because you seem shocked when you are called on something you must not even realize you said.

DownIn: I for one, knew darned good and well that you weren't actually insulting the good people of Virginia. You even qualified what you were saying by speaking to what you've seen on TV. Beth has a way of trying to turn things around instead of taking responsibility for what she's said.

She is quick to jump on someone, and I find that fair enough, but she doesn't seem to be able to take the heat.

luluc: I think most Americans probably don't give a darn about the issue..

i think that way - would LOVE others to feel the same, but this is one hot topic.

example - DH & his sis (gay) raised pentecostal....poor guy married a jewish/italian catholic from NYC (me).

his family has come a LONG way in acceptance - they accept her and her partner ... they would never go to a booth and vote for equality (approve gay marriage). we know it, don't have those conversations - they are together at family functions.... nobody is ugly, but we're not blind to how they actually feel or would vote.

in the back of my mind - i see this as a no brainer.....but it's an issue & i LOVE dh for allowing his liberal wife to wean him from some previous hang ups on the issue to accept his sis no matter what. it's been a great thing to witness.

luluc: I'm sure it all depends on your perspective. I have some good friends, gay neighbors, who are committed to each other and wear wedding bands. They have made many friends in the neighborhood and everyone loves them. I believe that there's a good chance prior to getting to know our gay neighbors, these same people would be against gay marriage. But having witnessed, up close and personal, what it means to gays, they would now probably vote to allow them to have a real marriage with all the rights and privileges that heretosexual couples enjoy in America.

Aw Beth, get real! You have said some very personally hurtful things directly to me on other threads. And I have read things that you've directed at other people that were downright hateful. This is not an isolated case where you, uncharacteristically, used rough language. I'm not letting you off the hook either. Because by dang, you have been guilty many times of doing the very things that you accuse others of doing. Sometimes in fact, I wonder if you just write things really fast and don't proof read because you seem shocked when you are called on something you must not even realize you said.

DownIn: I for one, knew darned good and well that you weren't actually insulting the good people of Virginia. You even qualified what you were saying by speaking to what you've seen on TV. Beth has a way of trying to turn things around instead of taking responsibility for what she's said.

She is quick to jump on someone, and I find that fair enough, but she doesn't seem to be able to take the heat.

I found this thread to be interesting. I don't know about others here but I KNOW I have been subject to discrimination because of my weight. I would think most who have a weight issue would want everyone to be accepting of them and practice that back in all areas of their life. This is not a shot and Beth (I don't know her weight status) or anyone else. It was just eye opening for me.

Beth, I literally cringed when I saw fag. It is an ugly word. I feel sorry that you seem to think it is ok to use it in any context. Peace.

Beth it did become about you when you used hate speech like "fag and flame". I don't understand how you feel it's OK to use it against "one" person when it's here for all to read and become offended by. Why don't you take responsibility for it?

That state of Virginia's population is about 7.7 million. I am not sure why you dropped the other 3.2 million. Perhaps they are not Christian?

Anyway I apologized to all Virginian's (that includes you), the toothless, and I will add anyone who lives in the backwoods to that. I don't use that kind of language and explained it came across wrong. I can own my mistakes.

I honestly don't know how many people live here. I thought it was 4.5 million. So instead, you insulted 7.7 innocent individuals because frankly, you are no different than what you accuse me of being, apology or not.

True colors come out through those who say something on purpose AND those who just flippantly toss it out there and then try to take it back. Thank you for proving that.

Welcome to the haters' corner. You will be getting your decoder ring and rules to the secret handshake shortly.

I found this thread to be interesting. I don't know about others here but I KNOW I have been subject to discrimination because of my weight. I would think most who have a weight issue would want everyone to be accepting of them and practice that back in all areas of their life. This is not a shot and Beth (I don't know her weight status) or anyone else. It was just eye opening for me.

Beth, I literally cringed when I saw fag. It is an ugly word. I feel sorry that you seem to think it is ok to use it in any context. Peace.

DownInSocal,

I agree with what you've said. There's also a fat acceptance movement. I find some people who have faced hatred and discrimination before like your example of being overweight tend to be sympathetic to others who also have suffered discrimination and hatred while others take their anger out on others to make themselves feel better.

Did I say "others" way too often??

She is quick to jump on someone, and I find that fair enough, but she doesn't seem to be able to take the heat.

I feel no heat, BJean. This is a simple message board, after all. It doesn't dictate my life.

Beth it did become about you when you used hate speech like "fag and flame". I don't understand how you feel it's OK to use it against "one" person when it's here for all to read and become offended by. Why don't you take responsibility for it?

I TOOK responsibility, Nancy! I said it and I'm not sorry that I called Perez Hilton anything. What is that if not responsibility??

If you and a couple others got offended, that is not my responsibility. You can choose to be offended that I called a cretin like him those names or you can choose not to. It's YOUR choice.

Besides, if I had a nickel for everything everbody gets offended by, I'd be a rich woman. Offense is the new buzz word, and I don't really care about it, even my own.

I will ask again: Were you as offended that this pond scum called a young woman who simply and honestly answered a question asked of her a bitch and a c*nt? I've asked three times now and you seemingly refuse to answer that.

DownInSocal,

I agree with what you've said. There's also a fat acceptance movement. I find some people who have faced hatred and discrimination before like your example of being overweight tend to be sympathetic to others who also have suffered discrimination and hatred while others take their anger out on others to make themselves feel better.

Did I say "others" way too often??

As I've said previously, I have some neighbors who are two of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. They watch over the older ladies on our side of the street, have watched our dogs when we went on vacation, and are just wonderful people. I would never in a million years refer to them as even gay, much less anything less kind. They are good people who have been together as long as my husband and I have. I've heard them teasingly refer to each other as "fag" and "homo," but it was in situations that were rather funny. I just see them as people, and I would do anything to help them out as neighbors and friends (other than vote for a cause I don't believe in).

Perez Hilton put himself out there and verbally assaulted a woman for sticking to her God-given right to her beliefs. He besmirched her by calling her a bitch and a c*nt. He does not deserve the care and respect I feel for my neighbors.