We see them all the time. Hell, maybe we'll write one someday...

OMG, I've regained! What do I do???????

You know what I like to do?

I like to go back in that person's post history and read about their diet habits in the beginning when they were losing....get a feel for what kind of dieter they were.

And I almost always find that the re-gainers....were super strict, super disciplined, never-touch-a-carb, low calorie extremists.

And it kills me...because the advice to these folks is always the same.....get back on your super strict diet! up your protein! don't touch a carb!

And I'm sitting here shaking my head.

Why do people return to what doesn't work? Over and over and over. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

Don't mean to just pick on our Ketovangelists....there are plenty of Passive Pollys out there who ate junk constantly, never kept track....and wonder why their weight went back up after the honeymoon.

My point is.....if a particular strategy ends in failure.....why in the world would you return to it? Why encourage someone to return to what didn't work longterm?

if the goal is longterm maintenance....why send them back to another stop-gap measure that fails them in the long run?

Ketovangelists....try something different if extremely low cal and carbs doesn't work long term for you! If you eventually lose your mind and fall off the wagon, maybe the wagon you're on doesn't fit. Try something more moderate so you can stay in control long term.

Passive Pollys....try something different! If a total lack of structure is resulting in your surgery being useless.....add some freaking framework to your diet. Work on healthy limits without going completely overboard. Be accountable.

More and more, I believe an addiction to EXTREMISM is what keeps people fat. So many of these folks are either "I must be in COMPLETE CONTROL"...or "I am helpless against my eating"....there's never any middle ground.

Stop with the extremism.

Knock that shite off.

It's hurting you.

Summerset

I agree with your post. I was referring to the posts where someone asks a question and is given good responses but then responds back with an excuse as to why they can’t do any of the things being advised or why that advice won’t work for them. The original poster just wants someone to tell them what they want to hear. Shopping around and getting advice and ideas from people is a great idea. My program is very strict about low carb/sugar but I’ve gotten great insight on other options from many people on this forum that work better for me. I’ll have to look up Dr. Weiner. ?

21 minutes ago, t1018ross said:

I’ll have to look up Dr. Weiner. ?

Dr. Weiner is the one to go to if you tend to eat mostly plant based or want to start eating mostly plant based.

Quote

I was referring to the posts where someone asks a question and is given good responses but then responds back with an excuse as to why they can’t do any of the things being advised or why that advice won’t work for them. The original poster just wants someone to tell them what they want to hear.

Ah ok, I see.

1 hour ago, BigViffer said:

You can't save everyone and you can't help everyone either. Let them fail on their own and focus on the ones that really putting the effort in.

I am a member of a few WLS support pages on facebook, it saddened and frustrated me the other day to see someone three weeks post op asking if it would be too soon to eat ice cream? I was one of the first to post saying its would be best to discuss with their surgeon/nutritionist before consuming ice cream. The post and comments disappeared between my log ins so I can only assume that a comment war ensued and the post was deleted by the moderators. Yesterday the poster posted again, prefacing the post 'no food police'...saying how they had ice cream and had enjoyed it without any issues. Person says they didn't much icecream. I blocked that person so I didn't see any further posts of theirs.

Why did I block the person? I couldn't bear to see the self-sabotage, the slippery slope of eating what is presumably an additive food for that person. I was saddened and frustrated that someone who would undertake surgery (along with the risks and complications that may arise) that costs thousands of dollars would risk a successful outcome so early in the game, that they would risk their health. I was frustrated that either their surgeon/nutritionist hadn't educated them properly or the person had purposely ignored or defied those who they had trusted their body with.

This person could be me in the future, but I sincerly hope that should I find myself on a slippery slope that someone would attempt to offer a helping hand before I hit the hard downward slide.

I am slowing learning that not everyone wants to be helped and we can try, but at some point we need to let them go so as they hit rock bottom, for them to find the what they need within themselves to stop the self sabotage and make positive moves to better outcomes.

Note by the way, I realise that at some point, that people will eventually reach a point when treats and other foods are part of a balanced diet and lifestyle, my point above is not about that or ice cream in particularly, but about potentially self sabotaging a successful result or putting health at risk, and possibly not giving a shite about it...that and the fact that not everyone can be or wants to be helped.

Edited July 28, 20187 yr by 2shea

On 07/28/2018 at 08:23, 2shea said:

I am a member of a few WLS support pages on Facebook, it saddened and frustrated me the other day to see someone three weeks post op asking if it would be too soon to eat ice cream? I was one of the first to post saying its would be best to discuss with their surgeon/nutritionist before consuming ice cream. The post and comments disappeared between my log ins so I can only assume that a comment war ensued and the post was deleted by the moderators. Yesterday the poster posted again, prefacing the post 'no food police'...saying how they had ice cream and had enjoyed it without any issues. Person says they didn't much icecream. I blocked that person so I didn't see any further posts of theirs.

Why did I block the person? I couldn't bear to see the self-sabotage, the slippery slope of eating what is presumably an additive food for that person. I was saddened and frustrated that someone who would undertake surgery (along with the risks and complications that may arise) that costs thousands of dollars would risk a successful outcome so early in the game, that they would risk their health. I was frustrated that either their surgeon/nutritionist hadn't educated them properly or the person had purposely ignored or defied those who they had trusted their body with.

This person could be me in the future, but I sincerly hope that should I find myself on a slippery slope that someone would attempt to offer a helping hand before I hit the hard downward slide.

I am slowing learning that not everyone wants to be helped and we can try, but at some point we need to let them go so as they hit rock bottom, for them to find the what they need within themselves to stop the self sabotage and make positive moves to better outcomes.

Note by the way, I realise that at some point, that people will eventually reach a point when treats and other foods are part of a balanced diet and lifestyle, my point above is not about that or ice cream in particularly, but about potentially self sabotaging a successful result or putting health at risk, and possibly not giving a shite about it...that and the fact that not everyone can be or wants to be helped.

This is just so well put. I agree 100% and tend to do the same with regards to the groups I’m members of on Facebook.

On 7/24/2018 at 8:59 PM, jldoublee said:

Protein is at least 60 (preferably from "real" food). No calorie limit, her view is that if you focus on protein and eating non-processed food, the rest will fall into place. I've lost a tad over 80 so far with this method and haven't once felt deprived like with say a calorie counting diet. I do stay away from bread, Pasta, and rice though for the time being.

This is the same philosophy as my NUT but she wants me as a male to have 85 grams of protein per day which as a gastric bypass patient is hard with just food alone. She only once mentioned calories when I called her during my stall at 8 weeks and she said I shouLd be eating 600-800 calories a day at that point. I have tried but I could not reach the 85 grams by eating alone. I have recently started protein powders (which I never did pre or post op until now, (just already made premier protein shakes) and I love the power as it can be added to so much food. Also as a diabetic (in remission yeah!) I was used to eating a low carb high protein diet, but then I could eat a big portion of protein, but not now. I will most likely be on this type of diet the rest of my life.

On 07/28/2018 at 07:26, BigViffer said:

I only seem to notice the regain post from the people that never took the surgery seriously and continued to eat whatever they wanted. The pizza, tacos or nachos, rice and Pasta, booze, goddamned marshmallow peeps... "it's all ok because now I have a smaller stomach and can't get fat!" And then the honeymoon is over and they learned nothing. Then they blame everything else in the world, life got in the way you know?

You can't save everyone and you can't help everyone either. Let them fail on their own and focus on the ones that really putting the effort in.

In my humble opinion: I have to disagree. I think they are eating too many Calories, worth of those foods. Not that those foods made them fat. At the end of the day, it’s calories in and out. So.. I do think it’s often calories from liquid that add up. My diet is super flexible- and I’ve barely plateaued at 140lbs for the first time since surgery. Yes, I was super strict until about 8months post op... but now, I eat ... I don’t drink though. At all. But I will buckle down to break plateau. I just don’t think anything super strict works long term. Deprivation leads to binges..

32 minutes ago, SGirl35 said:

Deprivation leads to binges..

I agree whole heartily. I just don't think that skipping the crappy fast food, snack chips & cakes counts as deprivation. If one is going to eat unhealthy or off diet, then at least make it something worthwhile. Case in point, I had fried chicken livers today. I have it once a year on this day in a festival near by. Sure it's high in protein and iron, but it is also super high in fat and sodium. As much as I love them as a comfort food from my childhood - they are readily available at KFC and Lee's Chicken - I never get them except for this festival because they are just that good and it is a special treat.

I literally had my entire days worth of calories on one plate! I ate it for lunch, snack, and dinner today. (Day old liver is no bueno!) The types of people I was referencing are eating pizza, tacos or nachos, rice and pasta, & booze all the time because they deep down believe the surgery is a magic thing that will save them. They are probably drinking calories too like you said, but that is just reinforcing what I said, people never made a lifestyle change during the honeymoon phase.

1 hour ago, SGirl35 said:

I just don’t think anything super strict works long term. Deprivation leads to binges..

Hence you can see a lot of regain posts with the tenor "Heeeeeelp!!!! I used to be so good with weight loss and following the rules but I fell off the wagon!!!!"

_____

I don't know if it's really "all in your hands". I doubt it. WLS is a (surgical) therapy. Like all therapies it doesn't have a 100% success rate. There will always be people who have better outcomes or worse outcomes than others. I know people don't like to hear this: but as with any other therapy there is quite a bit of luck involved how your body and mind react to this surgical therapy.

There is work to do of course and how good your are at doing this work, depends on a lot things. And some people simply don't need to work as hard as others. Remember high school or college? I bet anyone on this board here had a classmate who didn't have to study hard to get good grades while others had to struggle hard to get even decent grades. Same with WLS. Some have to work harder to get the same results while others just fly by on less effort.

Your weight loss journey will vary by the type of surgery that you have selected. I had RNY gastric bypass surgery. I lost a lot of weight very quickly and then the pace of the weight loss slowed down and leveled off and I transitioned from the weight loss phase to the maintenance phase at around 7 months. I am now over 5 years post-op.

Sleeve patients lose weight much more slowly, encounter many stalls along the way but can achieve good weight loss eventually transitioning to maintenance at around the 2 year mark.

During the weight loss phase, I completely lost my hunger. It was not difficult to lose weight when hunger was not constantly continually gnawing at my bones. But this loss of hunger does not last forever. About a year post-op it returned, just not as strong as before. One of the problems with this phase is that there is not a lot of medical guidance available at this point. You sort of have to figure it out for yourselves.

Maintenance can be the hardest phase to survive. Some people will gain all their weight back, sometimes in quick order. In a sense some people figure they can go back to eating and drinking like before and then slowly the weight begins to pile back on. Other individual will experience some limited weight gain. It is generally called "a twenty pound bounce". That is where I am. Some will maintain their weight loss for years and years by exercising great concentration and control on what they eat and drink.

But remember the tool is still there. Some people who have lost a lot of weight from surgery, then gained it all back, have buckled down and lost it all again.

There are not many veterans on this board. Many times they are chased away by newbies with abusive attitudes. Some just decide to move on with their lives. So when you weigh responses take into account the length of time from surgery and their measure of success to guide you. And try not to flame the board.

These are two links to articles documenting my surgery. The first covers the weight loss phase and the second covers the maintenance phase.

http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/Surgery.pdf

http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/Surgery2.pdf

(I did find that essential oil blend helped me lose a little more weight at the end of the weight loss phase. But then later it seemed to lose its effectiveness.)

15 hours ago, BigViffer said:

I just don't think that skipping the crappy fast food, snack chips & cakes counts as deprivation. If one is going to eat unhealthy or off diet, then at least make it something worthwhile. Case in point, I had fried chicken livers today. I have it once a year on this day in a festival near by. Sure it's high in Protein and Iron, but it is also super high in fat and sodium. As much as I love them as a comfort food from my childhood - they are readily available at KFC and Lee's Chicken - I never get them except for this festival because they are just that good and it is a special treat.

Just because you don't think eliminating fast food, chips, cake should cause a sense of deprivation, doesn't mean that is true for most others. A vast majority of people would certainly miss those items vs. chicken livers.

30 minutes ago, sillykitty said:

Just because you don't think eliminating fast food, chips, cake should cause a sense of deprivation, doesn't mean that is true for most others. A vast majority of people would certainly miss those items vs. chicken livers.

Yes it is true for other users. Junk food is not considered a basic necessity, so there is no deprivation. I think people just like to think of the most severe word they can find and use it. At best one should feel a sense of loss at the convenience of fast/junk food.

However - in the context of this thread, people who post about regain AND eat common as dirt junk food on a regular basis deserve little empathy. IN MY OPINION. There, stating that as clearly as I can. Not stating it as fact, but as opinion.

5 minutes ago, BigViffer said:

Yes it is true for other users. Junk food is not considered a basic necessity, so there is no deprivation. I think people just like to think of the most severe word they can find and use it. At best one should feel a sense of loss at the convenience of fast/junk food.

However - in the context of this thread, people who post about regain AND eat common as dirt junk food on a regular basis deserve little empathy. IN MY OPINION. There, stating that as clearly as I can. Not stating it as fact, but as opinion.

I'm not at all disagreeing that we need to take responsibility for what we eat, and that regain generally comes from making unwise choices.

But I don't feel the statement "At best one should feel a sense of loss at the convenience of fast/junk food." is fair. We are wired to prefer "junk food"

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/foods-carbs-fats-make-brain-light-study-finds/story?id=55861080

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2015/11/02/why-we-crave-sweets-and-fats/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3738223/

What I'm a but more concerned about are the people who claim to follow their plans to the letter and regain. I would like to hear from these people.

Is this real? Are they deluding theirselves? Any science behind this phenomenon?

What I'm a but more concerned about are the people who claim to follow their plans to the letter and regain. I would like to hear from these people.

Is this real? Are they deluding theirselves? Any science behind this phenomenon?

On 07/29/2018 at 17:43, GreenTealael said:

What I'm a but more concerned about are the people who claim to follow their plans to the letter and regain. I would like to hear from these people.

Is this real? Are they deluding theirselves? Any science behind this phenomenon?

Sorry but I have to believe they are deluding themselves. There is just no way with a metabolism reset and keeping a nutritious diet under 1000 calories a day there is no reason you should regain that weight back.