Atkins died on April 17, 2003, at the age of 72. Nine days prior to his death, Atkins fell and hit his head on an icy New York pavement. At New York's Weill Cornell Medical Center, where he was admitted on April 8, he underwent surgery to remove a blood clot from his brain but went into a coma and died from complications. He spent nine days in intensive care before dying on April 17, 2003

A medical report issued by the New York medical examiner's office a year after his death showed that Atkins had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB107637899384525268

His widow refused to allow an autopsy.

Russel Wilder was on the ground floor and actually NAMED the ketogenic diet...the ketogenic diet....at Mayo clinic back in the early 1920's when they were using it to treat epilepsy.

And yet...Mayo doesn't even leave epileptic kids on the diet for over two years today....because of enduring concerns about cardiovascular side effects.

Not to say Mayo is the Know-all End-all of medical research. But they have a hell of a reputation.

Edited April 24, 20188 yr by Creekimp13

Sorry, I meant to say dietary fat/cholesterol theory of cvd has been disproved. I will try to go back and edit that because dietary is an important word.

https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/saturated-fats-do-they-cause-heart-disease/

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/study-says-theres-no-link-between-cholesterol-and-heart-disease/

https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-cholesterol-and-saturated-fat-are-not-the-enemy/

https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-why-everyone-should-know-their-ldl-particle-number/

https://chriskresser.com/what-causes-elevated-ldl-particle-number/

I could site studies and articles by very well-respected doctors and researchers to debate this, but won't.

Fluff you are correct that Atkin's shitty cardiovascular problems were strongly influenced by his illness.

But his diet sure as hell didn't help him. He still had heart attacks and couldn't breath....and it very well might have made his condition worse. We don't know.

Looking in his arteries in an autopsy could have provided information about whether it did or not......but his family didn't allow that....so we'll never know.

2 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

I didn't say he died of a heart attack. I said he had a heart attack that damaged his heart. The attack was caused by endocarditis. He died from slipping on ice and had a blood clot. People in comas often suffer edema build up. Their skin weeps. I've seen it and dealt with patients with this problem. It was NOT unusual for them to gain more than >50lbs.

No, she didn't want unscrupulous people attacking his life work.

There are so many supportive research and so many doctors who continue this work. You know nothing about what you are accusing.

You do not have the facts.

Dr. Stephen Finney

Dr. Jeff Volek

Dr. Mike Eades

Dr. Eric Westman

Dr. Tim Noakes

Dr. Dominic D'Agostino

Dr. Richard Feinman

Dr. William Davis

Dr. Perlmutter

https://www.mensjournal.com/food-drink/truth-behind-worlds-most-cutting-edge-fat-burning-performance-meal-plan-keto/

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2017/03/31/bjsports-2016-097285

I could list other sources for the fail of fat causing heart disease, this is just the first one that came up. But there are MANY more!

These are all medical physicians who've authored countless papers and studies in peer reviewed journals--respected physicians who all have helped prove that ketogenic diets ARE beneficial when done correctly. The fat/cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease was disproved not too long ago.

Sorry. This line has a typo and should read:

"The DIETARY fat/cholesterol hypothesis of heart disease was disproved not too long ago."

1 minute ago, Creekimp13 said:

Fluff you are correct that Atkin's shitty cardiovascular problems were strongly influenced by his illness.

But his diet sure as hell didn't help him. He still had heart attacks and couldn't breath....and it very well might have made his condition worse. We don't know.

Looking in his arteries in an autopsy could have provided information about whether it did or not......but his family didn't allow that....so we'll never know.

"shi*ty diet" is YOUR opinion, NOT backed up with facts. Sorry. But TRUE! You're entitled to your own belief and view. But the debate over this is being fought by scientists in labs and in peer reviewed journals.

A low carb diet it NOT a shi*ty diet. Is it perfect for everyone? Nope. Not even. But does it help ameliorate certain disease progression? Yes it does.

Oye. To each their own, my friend. Whatever:)

Thank you for debunking the myths surrounding Dr. Atkins, @Creekimp13 and @FluffyChix. Moderation in eating is still very important. Atkins only caught on to the importance of enough protein in your diet. There is also science to show that diets low in sugar are actually much better for you. It doesn't mean consuming vast amounts of unhealthy foods. Furthermore, I don't know where they came up with the grapefruit malarky. There is so much junk science in the diet industry that it is disgusting.

Edited April 24, 20188 yr by Mattymatt

Indeed. Not enough hour in my day to waste any more time on this ridiculous thread.

I like grapefruit

On 4/24/2018 at 11:47 AM, Creekimp13 said:

All we can do is pay our money, take our chances, and trust the sources that seem most reputable to us.

Our ancestors, the great apes, are not meat eaters. They're fruit, plant fat, and vegetation eaters.

Once in a while...they eat eggs, insects, an occasional meat meal (less than 3% of their diet)

But mostly, they eat fruit, nuts, seeds, and tons of vegetation. And they get a ton of exercise and sleep.

(And of course, FIRE and cooking marked a huge change in nutrition and gut lengths as early hominids needed less large intestine and more small intestine to get the most nutrition out of pre-broken down foods)

Sorry about the anthropology rant. LOL. But I guess it is the rant board.

Interestingly, the people on the planet who live the longest....eat the Mediterranean diet...which is nutritionally similar.....lots of plant fats, fruits and veggies, legumes, lower Protein. They also get more exercise and sleep than the statistical norm.

Diet will be controversial until the end of time. We all have our prejudices. I'm so far up the Mayo Clinic Diet's butt...I can take it's temperature. LOL. We all have our favorites.

I know you're a Keto Disciple, Fluff, and I'm not trying to change you. If it works for you, awesome.

To each, their own.

Hate to add to the anthropology rant. But great apes are not our ancestors. We share a common ancestor that lived 5 to 11 million years ago.

All we can do is pay our money, take our chances, and trust the sources that seem most reputable to us.
Our ancestors, the great apes, are not meat eaters. They're fruit, plant fat, and vegetation eaters.
Once in a while...they eat eggs, insects, an occasional meat meal (less than 3% of their diet)
But mostly, they eat fruit, nuts, seeds, and tons of vegetation. And they get a ton of exercise and sleep.
(And of course, FIRE and cooking marked a huge change in nutrition and gut lengths as early hominids needed less large intestine and more small intestine to get the most nutrition out of pre-broken down foods)
Sorry about the anthropology rant. LOL. But I guess it is the rant board.
Interestingly, the people on the planet who live the longest....eat the Mediterranean diet...which is nutritionally similar.....lots of plant fats, fruits and veggies, legumes, lower protein. They also get more exercise and sleep than the statistical norm.
Diet will be controversial until the end of time. We all have our prejudices. I'm so far up the Mayo Clinic Diet's butt...I can take it's temperature. LOL. We all have our favorites.
I know you're a Keto Disciple, Fluff, and I'm not trying to change you. If it works for you, awesome.
To each, their own.

Sorry my family did not come from the apes. Sorry that’s yours did. Oh and FYI
There are carnivorous species of apes that eat their own

Sorry my family did not come from the apes. Sorry that’s yours did. Oh and FYI
There are carnivorous species of apes that eat their own

I take it that you don't believe in evolution? I'm not a big fan of creationism and so-called intelligent design.

Sent from my Z981 using BariatricPal mobile app

5 hours ago, Conflicted said:

Hate to add to the anthropology rant. But great apes are not our ancestors.

If we're being absolutely technical....since humans ARE great apes...indeed, our ancestors are great apes as well. I could have technically said Hominidea, our taxonomic family of great apes (which includes humans and the other great apes and our combined ancestors)...but I wanted to keep things simple for the sake of conversation.

4 hours ago, clsumrall said:

There are carnivorous species of apes that eat their own

Human beings are one such example.

A hominoid, commonly called an ape, is a member of the superfamily Hominoidea: extant members are the gibbons (lesser apes, family Hylobatidae) and the hominids. A hominid is a member of the family Hominidae, the great apes: orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans.

We ARE great apes.

Edited April 30, 20188 yr by Creekimp13

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

From the perspective of this powerful test of biological kinship (DNA), humans are not only related to the great apes – we are one. The DNA evidence leaves us with one of the greatest surprises in biology: the wall between human, on the one hand, and ape, on the other, has been breached. The human evolutionary tree is embedded within the great apes.

Edited April 30, 20188 yr by Creekimp13

11 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

If we're being absolutely technical....since humans ARE great apes...indeed, our ancestors are great apes as well. I could have technically said Hominidea, our taxonomic family of great apes (which includes humans and the other great apes and our combined ancestors)...but I wanted to keep things simple for the sake of conversation.

Human beings are one such example.

A hominoid, commonly called an ape, is a member of the superfamily Hominoidea: extant members are the gibbons (lesser apes, family Hylobatidae) and the hominids. A hominid is a member of the family Hominidae, the great apes: orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans.

We ARE great apes.

Yes, we are members of the taxonomic family Hominidae, and thus are great apes. Humans are also primates, mammals, chordates, animals, and Eukaryotes.

A taxonomic family is, according to the Biology Online Dictionary, "A taxonomic group of one or more genera, especially sharing a common attribute. . . Organisms belonging to the same family would have evolved from the same ancestors and share relatively common characteristics" (my emphasis).

12 hours ago, Creekimp13 said:

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics

From the perspective of this powerful test of biological kinship (DNA), humans are not only related to the great apes – we are one. The DNA evidence leaves us with one of the greatest surprises in biology: the wall between human, on the one hand, and ape, on the other, has been breached. The human evolutionary tree is embedded within the great apes.

Well, in your own words:

The quote. . . Here's what follows in the text (my emphasis):

The strong similarities between humans and the African great apes led Charles Darwin in 1871 to predict that Africa was the likely place where the human lineage branched off from other animals – that is, the place where the common ancestor of chimpanzees, humans, and gorillas once lived. The DNA evidence shows an amazing confirmation of this daring prediction. The African great apes, including humans, have a closer kinship bond with one another than the African apes have with orangutans or other primates. Hardly ever has a scientific prediction so bold, so ‘out there’ for its time, been upheld as the one made in 1871 – that human evolution began in Africa.

The DNA evidence informs this conclusion, and the fossils do, too. Even though Europe and Asia were scoured for early human fossils long before Africa was even thought of, ongoing fossil discoveries confirm that the first 4 million years or so of human evolutionary history took place exclusively on the African continent. It is there that the search continues for fossils at or near the branching point of the chimpanzee and human lineages from our last common ancestor.

And the chart. Here's what it says above it (my emphasis):

"Primate Family Tree

Due to billions of years of evolution, humans share genes with all living organisms. The percentage of genes or DNA that organisms share records their similarities. We share more genes with organisms that are more closely related to us.

Humans belong to the biological group known as Primates, and are classified with the great apes, one of the major groups of the primate evolutionary tree. Besides similarities in anatomy and behavior, our close biological kinship with other primate species is indicated by DNA evidence. It confirms that our closest living biological relatives are chimpanzees and bonobos, with whom we share many traits. But we did not evolve directly from any primates living today.

DNA also shows that our species and chimpanzees diverged from a common ancestor species that lived between 8 and 6 million years ago. The last common ancestor of monkeys and apes lived about 25 million years ago"