Hi everyone! I am 5 days post op from my sleeve and have been thinking about Dr. Weiner's long term nutrition goals that he gives his patients. I know I am a long way out but I would love some opinions from those of you who are WLS veterans.

I know that my practice, as well as many/most others really stress the importance of high high protein diets and protein first. If you have watched Dr Weiner's videos or read his book, you know that he is more of a believer in lots of veggies, fruits, seeds, nuts and legumes and lean proteins-poultry and fish-he's not a beef fan. His recommended protein levels aren't as high as what my practice instructs, or what I have seen on this forum. His way of eating feels more natural to me, maybe even healthier. I totally understand the role of protein in our systems, and I also understand the importance of veggies and the other things he encourages.

Now, I know that it's important to follow the diets given by our nutritionist, but I can't help but feel that eating protein first leaves very little room for veggies and other whole foods. Therefore robbing our bodies of vital nutrients that vitamins can't provide.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

among other things, Vuong says to avoid chicken. why? because "eating chicken is part of what made you fat in the first place".

i rest my case.

avoid him. he's a bottom 10% "doctor" who probably got his "degree" from one of those med schools in the Caribbean.

Just now, JohnnyCakes said:

among other things, Vuong says to avoid chicken. why? because "eating chicken is part of what made you fat in the first place".

i rest my case.

avoid him. he's a bottom 10% "doctor" who probably got his "degree" from one of those med schools in the Caribbean.

Oh...well, I avoid chicken. Lol. Chicken isn’t all that great for you either, but I don’t believe it could be the only source of getting someone fat, unless maybe tons of fried chicken and processed nuggets, again fried. In fact, I think a lot of meat is bad for you. So...I can’t really argue against his avoidance of chicken, maybe how he presented it though, but again, I don’t know if that’s how he truly presented it either. I guess I’ll do some more digging. If he’s certainly pro-veggie, fruit, and grains for diet, then I’ll probably like him. LOL.

BUT I do not like the Dr V challenge, that’s still just awful IMO. But it’s good food, at least. ?

@JohnnyCakes you may not like this, but check out this video. I am wrong, it can make you heavier. I will for sure advocate Dr Greger.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/chicken-big-poultry-and-obesity/

Edited February 9, 20188 yr by Newme17

this is where i bow out...

have fun!

3 hours ago, JohnnyCakes said:

this is where i bow out...

have fun!

Dude you would so dig Dr. Greger. You love research and that's literally what he does - comb through every article published in every English-language medical journal every year and break down research for laypeople. Come on Johnny... join the veggie train with us. There's a metric f-ckton of evidence for it!

13 hours ago, JohnnyCakes said:

this is where i bow out...

have fun!

I’m sorry to hear...but ya really got to have an open mind to embrace change.

We really are having fun with this. So much to learn.

Dr. Voung is a Pescatarian who enjoys the occasional steak. :-)

I have a mostly vegetarian adult son who won't eat chicken because its "fowl" << haha

I'm reading up on various options for meeting protein requirements after surgery. Thanks for the link to Dr. Greger.

In somewhat the same vein, I asked my fully vegetarian cousin. Did you choose this life style because you love animals? No she said I hate vegetables and I want to do b them all in!

Sent from my VS880PP using BariatricPal mobile app

I've watched his vids several times and own his book. And if you really listen carefully, he's not TOO very different from the standard plan post-WLS. His differentiator is that after the first few months, you don't necessarily have to eat protein forward.

My plan from my RD for a day when I'm at regular foods is: 60-80g protein/day, 4-5 servings fruits/veggies, 2-3 servings starches/grains, low fat (yeah, disagree but whatevs).

Meal: 2oz protein (meat or meat substitute)

Snack: 1oz protein (meat or meat substitute)

So if at 6months I'm eating 1/2 cup of food that is protein, I maybe have another 1-2oz of capacity that I'm gonna fill with veggies. And since a lot of veggies are sliders, it seems like I may be able to eat more of them? I know his green smoothie in the morning will get in a lot of the 1lb per day, and it will slide down just like a protein smoothie once we're healed.

I already eat salads for lunch where the focus is veggies and the protein is like a condiment, and already have dinners that are what he describes.

So, I'd say, his advice fits within my paradigm and I think he's got it going on. I love his vids!

5 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

I've watched his vids several times and own his book. And if you really listen carefully, he's not TOO very different from the standard plan post-WLS. His differentiator is that after the first few months, you don't necessarily have to eat Protein forward.

Really??? LOL I actually think it's pretty darn different. The standard advice is to eat your protein (and the word "protein" in that context almost always means meat or dairy) first and then if you can fit in other healthy foods, do it. (As you mentioned in your post, fitting in 1-2 oz of broccoli around your protein, maybe, if you have room.)

In contrast to this Dr. Weiner strongly emphasizes eating vegetables first and fitting in protein around that. He also recommends plant foods - veggies and legumes and fruit and raw nuts - ahead of meat and dairy and has fairly low protein requirements - about 50g compared to many bariatric plans encouraging 80-100g.

(Of course he isn't vegan by any stretch and I've seen him recommend yogurt smoothies and small amounts of animal protein, etc. He even said in one video that he doesn't think that a fully plant-based diet is "necessary for the general population." So yeah, while we're claiming him he's not necessarily "ours," know what I mean? Just a good resource!)

While Dr. Weiner's diet is "low carb" compared to our pre-op sugary diets, it's certainly not low carb in the bariatric sense. You can't eat many fruits and certainly not any beans and whole grains and still remain under 30-50g carbs. It's also low-fat. Difficult to be low-fat and low-carb at the same time!

He also promotes eating in abundance instead of focusing on calories, a huge difference from most bariatric plans. You just need to eat your abundance from healthy plant foods (Obviously you still end up eating fewer calories because you're eating high-volume, low-calorie foods but it's the mindset that helps make a difference!)

So on a spectrum with keto/Atkins on the left and veganism on the right I'd say he's definitely well across the center line to the right, while most bariatric plans are basically keto except with low-fat dairy and some wiggle room for beans.

Sorry for the long post, Fluff - I am fully carbed again, having eaten an abundance of fruit, oats, and rice in the last couple of days that I've been free from my liquid diet. So I'm all peppy and ready to argue again!!! Heehee!

Well-put! I freely and happily admit you are correct and I'm wrong! (f**k you btw for being carbed up... )

1 hour ago, Little Green said:

Really??? LOL I actually think it's pretty darn different. The standard advice is to eat your Protein (and the word "protein" in that context almost always means meat or dairy) first and then if you can fit in other healthy foods, do it. (As you mentioned in your post, fitting in 1-2 oz of broccoli around your protein, maybe, if you have room.)

In contrast to this Dr. Weiner strongly emphasizes eating vegetables first and fitting in protein around that. He also recommends plant foods - veggies and legumes and fruit and raw nuts - ahead of meat and dairy and has fairly low protein requirements - about 50g compared to many bariatric plans encouraging 80-100g.

(Of course he isn't vegan by any stretch and I've seen him recommend yogurt smoothies and small amounts of animal protein, etc. He even said in one video that he doesn't think that a fully plant-based diet is "necessary for the general population." So yeah, while we're claiming him he's not necessarily "ours," know what I mean? Just a good resource!)

While Dr. Weiner's diet is "low carb" compared to our pre-op sugary diets, it's certainly not low carb in the bariatric sense. You can't eat many fruits and certainly not any Beans and whole grains and still remain under 30-50g carbs. It's also low-fat. Difficult to be low-fat and low-carb at the same time!

He also promotes eating in abundance instead of focusing on calories, a huge difference from most bariatric plans. You just need to eat your abundance from healthy plant foods (Obviously you still end up eating fewer calories because you're eating high-volume, low-calorie foods but it's the mi1ndset that helps make a difference!)

So on a spectrum with keto/Atkins on the left and veganism on the right I'd say he's definitely well across the center line to the right, while most bariatric plans are basically keto except with low-fat dairy and some wiggle room for beans.

Sorry for the long post, Fluff - I am fully carbed again, having eaten an abundance of fruit, oats, and rice in the last couple of days that I've been free from my liquid diet. So I'm all peppy and ready to argue again!!! Heehee!

I disagree. Dr, Wiener is a Whole30 kinda doctor. All of them are basically saying the same thing. Release your guard rails...

Edited February 10, 20188 yr by Apple203

1 hour ago, Little Green said:

He also promotes eating in abundance instead of focusing on calories, a huge difference from most bariatric plans. You just need to eat your abundance from healthy plant foods (Obviously you still end up eating fewer calories because you're eating high-volume, low-calorie foods but it's the mindset that helps make a difference!)

So on a spectrum with keto/Atkins on the left and veganism on the right I'd say he's definitely well across the center line to the right, while most bariatric plans are basically keto except with low-fat dairy and some wiggle room for beans.

Sorry for the long post, Fluff - I am fully carbed again, having eaten an abundance of fruit, oats, and rice in the last couple of days that I've been free from my liquid diet. So I'm all peppy and ready to argue again!!! Heehee!

@Little Green Ugh, I've lost my way. Who is "he"? What is your surgeon's post-op diet?

@Apple203 I'm not sure what "release your guard rails" means LOL. Whole30 eliminates grains and legumes and dairy, Dr. Weiner promotes whole grains & legumes as healthy and doesn't care much about dairy as long as it's low-fat. Not sure how that's Whole30 approved, lol. "He" throughout my post is Dr. Weiner... I thought that was clear, sorry. Is there something I'm missing as to why people say Dr. Weiner promotes the same diet as everyone else? I've read his book and watched all of his videos, many 2-3 times. I've never seen another bariatric surgeon request his or her patients eat mostly veggies and focus on plant proteins. (Except Dr. Garth Davis who's a vegan.)

The immediate post-op diet for my surgeon is the same as everyone else. Focus on protein & water. (Except my surgeon only asks for 50g protein.) We have a graduated list of approved foods as we progress through the diet. Obviously I'm planning to follow that to a T for my own safety! I'm talking long-term.

Edited February 11, 20188 yr by Little Green

8 hours ago, FluffyChix said:

Well-put! I freely and happily admit you are correct and I'm wrong! (f**k you btw for being carbed up... )

Awww. How sweet you are I'm going to regret it again when I restart liquids, I know!