Hello guys. Keto has never caught my attention. I've been able to lose weight eating healthy carbs. Anytime I did do carb cycling, where I would have to eat low carb, I just felt terrible. Now please don't take this as "oh wow she's unmotivated to change her lifestyle". Doing Keto literally contradicts all the knowledge I've gained on macronutrients all my life. (I also talk about this in reference of way after the 6 weeks. Maybe 6 months from post-op)

Keto is great for losing, but can you eat that way for the rest of your life in maintenance?

Nope. I can't see myself doing it. I eat A LOT of fruit. And I love my potatoes, corn, whole grains, etc. I'm willing to cut certain things out, but I know trying to keep carbs at 50 or lower would make me miserable.

I have naturally fallen into a lower carb diet. I began eating my protein first. Once I finish my protein I will eat a carb (usually a veggie). I have good restriction so I'm rarely able to get much carb in during meals. I essentially eat meat and a few veggies. My go to snacks are Greek yogurt with berries.

Mmmmmm thats my favorite. Plain greek yogurt. I usually add granola. (I'm still pre-op tho!) I use Chobani. 1 cup is 22 grams of protein.

I'm confused. Are your surgeons and NUTS recommending keto? Why would you have weight loss surgery and then go on what is basically a fad diet? I had surgery to stop letting fad diets get in my head. Yes, they work. Fad diets always have. Until they don't. If I follow the guidelines my surgeon and NUT gave me, I'm ultimately eating low carb anyway. They don't recommend simple carbs, and I admit like everyone else, they don't work for me. But I shake my head at all of these post op people following keto plans. It sounds to me like keto is to lose weight. Surgery should accomplish that on its on. It did for me.

Nope. I'm not really being guided by my surgeon or a NUT since I'm getting my surgery out of the country. But from the support groups I'm on, and the recipes page, everyone seems to be following a keto diet. (Low carb, high fat, high protein) So many recipes include cheese, butter, etc. Everything is ok in moderation, but eating "sandwiches" where your bread is replace by cheese constantly just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I love healthy fats (avocado, nuts, etc) but too much fat like butter and cheese scare me :x

Michelle, you bring up a valid point. In the rat studies, the rats that get the surgery go back on a regular diet after the healing period and they lose weight.
But, I think our problem is we don't really know what an ideal human diet looks like.... and the very real possibility that what is ideal for one person isn't ideal for another.
I like the idea of the caveman diet.. and though it isn't certain how much protein was available, we can be sure things like grains and sugar were in limited supply. And refined versions were unheard of.

Ah yes, paleo. When I did cross fit, that's the food style they recommended. For example, that one is something I could see myself following.

After surgery it is really hard to get all your meat down. I have consistently lost 5 pounds per week eating some protein with every meal and then whatever I can fit after that. I think you are right about finding balance and making sure we get all the nutrients from fruits and vegetables.

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Yes. I definitely think you're low carb for awhile since carbs ARE filling and its a priority to get in protein.

What is keto

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If you scroll up to earlier in the thread, someone explains it really well.

Michelle, you bring up a valid point. In the rat studies, the rats that get the surgery go back on a regular diet after the healing period and they lose weight.
But, I think our problem is we don't really know what an ideal human diet looks like.... and the very real possibility that what is ideal for one person isn't ideal for another.
I like the idea of the caveman diet.. and though it isn't certain how much protein was available, we can be sure things like grains and sugar were in limited supply. And refined versions were unheard of.

The ideal diet for WLS surgery patients is simple. 64-100 grams protein a day, depending on your needs. 64-120 oz water, also depending on your needs. Eat your protein first, then veggies, then complex carb (I like to stick with sweet potatoes, brown rice, cous cous or quinoa) if you have room for it. No liquid with meals, or 30 mins before and after. 95-99% of the time. That takes the weight off and keeps it off.

8 hours ago, KrisZ said:

Keto is great for losing, but can you eat that way for the rest of your life in maintenance?

I can! I love how it makes me feel and the results I get following a ketogenic diet. I actually prefer my keto meals. Grains and sugar make my joints hurt and my feet swell.

29 minutes ago, Michelle920 said:

The ideal diet for WLS surgery patients is simple. 64-100 grams protein a day, depending on your needs. 64-120 oz Water, also depending on your needs. Eat your protein first, then veggies, then complex carb (I like to stick with sweet potatoes, brown rice, cous cous or quinoa) if you have room for it. No liquid with meals, or 30 mins before and after. 95-99% of the time. That takes the weight off and keeps it off.

So.. similar to a keto diet.

When you're intake is less than a thousand calories a day, to attain that amount of protein means __________.

The way the body burns off fat is through ketosis. Body produes ketones when deprived carbohydrates to tell the body to use other sources of energy, called gluconucleogenesis -- this is especially healthy in obese people. It's no surprise when people find themselves eating sliders like bread, rife with wheat at that, they retain water and find themselves stalling or retaining fluids as @her1981just emphasized as I was typing this up.

The only reason during weight loss to up their caloric intake, and carbs, is if they're body building or doing significant exercise. For the vast majority of people on sites like this who are sedentary or low active, carb intake is proportionate to chances of failure.

Low carb isn't keto and keto isn't low carb. People keep mixing up the terms and they are not the same thing.

A post-op diet is low carb, not keto.

Almost all bariatric diets post-op are low carb and low fat (which is kind of impossible).

The reason so many people fail at Keto is because they don't understand what it is or how it works. You have to set your macros and control the ratios carefully. If you aren't you are just low carbing, which is fine, but it isn't Keto.

Unless you are vegetarian/vegan, you are going to low carb for the rest of your life anyway if you are eating properly in the right order.

If you have plate of food, you are supposed to eat your protein FIRST. First means ALONE not alternating bites with other foods, FIRST. If you have your proper portion of protein 3-4 ounces, and you finish that, THEN eat your veggies/carbs, you will be lucky to get an ounce of those items in. The protein is going to make you full by eating it first.

People don't follow these directions, they eat alternating bites. They don't measure and weigh their portions. If you eat your veggies alternating bites with your protein, you can eat a lot more food, and you won't feel as full and you will not get all your protein in.

This is why I eat my veggies separate at snacks so I can get enough veggies in while meeting my protein goals. If I didn't eat my veggies separate, I would never eat any, because 3 to 4 ounces of protein fills me up. On a typical day I eat 4 cups of spinach. That is pretty much the sum of my carbs, and it is barely 4 carbs, the rest of my carbs are from half and half. If I have broccoli instead I might hit 6 carbs in broccoli and even that is a stretch because broccoli is more filling and I can't eat as much of it as I can of spinach. If you are eating protein and green veggies, it is basically impossible not to low carb.

Ok, so what is the difference?

Google or search here. I'm not explaining it again for the 50th time.

Ok fine. Here is a definition. I guess I got confused because meat + spinach is definitely ketogenic.

What’s the difference between a ketogenic and a low-carb diet?

What is the difference between ketogenic diet and low-carb diet? Who has to follow a ketogenic diet and who needs to follow a low-carb diet?

Please let me know the main difference between the two diets above?

Thanks,
S.Kumar

Ketogenic is an ultra low-carb diet, which causes production of ketones. Ketones are produced when the body runs out of sugars (carbs). The blood glucose is saved for the brain, and the body converts fatty acids into ketones. These can cross the blood brain barrier to fuel the brain. The muscles do not use ketones – instead they can directly metabolize fatty acids.

So you can still follow a low carb diet but not be ketogenic. You do not necessarily need to be ketotic to lose weight, but it is something that people can measure through breath testing or urine testing to ‘confirm’ they are following a low carb diet.

Dr. Jason Fung

15 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

Ok fine. Here is a definition. I guess I got confused because meat + spinach is definitely ketogenic.

What’s the difference between a ketogenic and a low-carb diet?

What is the difference between ketogenic diet and low-carb diet? Who has to follow a ketogenic diet and who needs to follow a low-carb diet?

Please let me know the main difference between the two diets above?

Thanks,
S.Kumar

Ketogenic is an ultra low-carb diet, which causes production of ketones. Ketones are produced when the body runs out of sugars (carbs). The blood glucose is saved for the brain, and the body converts fatty acids into ketones. These can cross the blood brain barrier to fuel the brain. The muscles do not use ketones – instead they can directly metabolize fatty acids.

So you can still follow a low carb diet but not be ketogenic. You do not necessarily need to be ketotic to lose weight, but it is something that people can measure through breath testing or urine testing to ‘confirm’ they are following a low carb diet.

Dr. Jason Fung

That and there are ambiguous definitions of keto diet.. the only important part is getting the body into ketosis. I find the differences of how to be subjective and irrelevant.

Edited May 31, 20179 yr by PatientEleventyBillion

37 minutes ago, Berry78 said:

Ok fine. Here is a definition. I guess I got confused because meat + spinach is definitely ketogenic.

It really isn't Keto because if the meat is lean and the spinach is plain, that is just low carb.

The key to eating keto, is the fat ratio.