Greetings,

I am going for my orientation on Monday and prior to that - I have done a lot of my own research. In addition, my wife had a gastric bypass.

I can't have a gastric bypass due to medication that I take, so it has to be the sleeve.

I am primarily obese due to lack of portion control. It isn't that I eat the wrong things or unhealthy things per se, but I eat enough of it to feed a whole family at once and I never feel full. That button in my brain is broken. So I am hoping that the sleeve will help with portion control and feeling full, but I still want to eat the foods that I normally would generally speaking.

I also love spicy foods and pretty much put hot sauce on everything. I have read some patients have a hard time with that and some are fine. I love Buffalo Wings for example and would really like to be able to still have a few as opposed to the 50 wings that I usually have eat at one time. I would really have a big problem if I couldn't eat spicy foods/hot sauce anymore.

I have been told by some patients that compared to the bypass - sleeve patients can pretty much go back to how they used to eat - but just a lot less of it. But then some patients say that they tried to eat a very small hamburger (slider) and felt sick.

I also drink primarily carbonated drinks - never sugar ones, just Diet Coke and carbonated Water. I do drink regular water, but I don't really like it even when it is flavored. I need the crispness of the carbonation.

Now here is the problem - some doctors claim that you can't drink carbonated drinks, because it will stretch out your stomach, etc. And there are doctors that say that it's a complete myth and drinking carbonated drinks is fine - that it's impossible to stretch out your stomach with the carbonation levels found in a can of Diet Coke or club soda.

Patients say the same thing - some drink carbonated drinks and it's perfectly fine and some don't - because their doctor told them not to.

I suspect because doctors assume that drinking Diet Coke will lead to patients to start drinking regular Coke/other sugar drinks and thus impact weight loss. So just tell the patient that they can't have anything carbonated.

Anyone here drinking carbonated drinks with no problem?

Now this is going to sound weird, but I have great hair and one of my biggest worries is losing my hair/thinning hair, which I am told happens after surgery. Can this be avoided with any kind of vitamins/fish oil, whatever? Losing weight is great, but I don't want to be a thin bald person if you know what I mean. I know it's supposed to be temporary and it grows back, but I am a guy that doesn't want to lose his hair and I am a little paranoid.

I may decide that the sleeve isn't for me ultimately - I just find it hard to make a decision with all the conflicting information from doctors and patients. I may decide that life is too short to no longer enjoy the foods that I love in moderation at least and try to find another way to lose weight.

I wish there was a way to know for sure how things will be after the operation. I don't want to find out after the fact that I can't have spicy foods anymore or bread makes me sick or a piece of chicken give me a stomach ache.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback to what I posted above and responses to my direct concerns.

Thanks!

HM

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by Hey Man

There is conflicting information because Everyone is different, and there is no real answer to your questions....for you. You have no way of knowing how your body will react to surgery until you're there.

My experience has been, yes, I can eat spicy good just fine. No I can't drink carbonation. It's not that I'm not supposed to, it's that I CANT. the bubbles have nowhere to go so more than a sip or two is painful. And no, I never lost a strand of hair. Didn't take any supplements, just got in all my Protein and Water and never stressed about it. But you have no control over it. It's just gonna happen it not.

I guess you just have to ask yourself if you want to be thinner and healthier even if you can't drink soda or eat spicy food or if you go bald. My answer was yes. If your answer is no then perhaps surgery is not for you, cause you can't take it back. Besides, surgery alone will not make you successful. It's not JUST about portion control. There are a lot of lifestyle and diet changes you must commit to....forever.....or the surgery will be a waste of time and money.

What she said ^^^^

I find it a little disheartening when people think they don't have to change their eating habits just because they can eat less. This thinking is why over 50% of people gain some or all of their weight back. The hardest part of this whole process is realizing our love affair with food really has to end. It really has to turn into more of a respect for food by understanding what we eat can either make us or break us. Mindful eating, not eating less, is they key to our success. Understanding that is half the battle.

I know I have to change my eating habits and I never said otherwise. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to ask - can I have a slice or two of pizza once in a while instead of my usual 10 slices two times a week.

I feel maybe I haven't explained myself properly. I am not looking for a quick fix and I don't view surgery as the easy way out - I have seen what my wife has gone through, I just want to know if I can somewhat maintain a normal life when comes to food as long as I make smart choice, eat the things I love in moderation as some of you are doing and exercise.

Part of the problem for me is that I am just overwhelmed at 450 pounds to do anything - I can't really work out very well and I can't catch my breath. If I was 250 pounds, I think I could lose the weight with healthy eating choices and working out. Surgery would restrict my intake and obviously provide faster weight loss as opposed to doing it myself. My wife is already at her goal weight 8 months later. She wouldn't be even close to her goal weight if she just trying to diet and exercise. If I was at my goal weight tomorrow or in 8 months or longer - 190 pounds, I would never allow myself to get fat again.

Frankie's girl rocks in responses..... Thanks for honesty!!!! :)

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My weight loss journey has definitely shown me very clearly that much of the advice offered by Western medical professionals after sleeve surgery is outdated by at least 20 years, much of that is based on initial studies that were not connected to other studies over a long period of time. That is, their data is incomplete and not integrated with other data, newer data, and data that comes from other areas, including nutritional and food-based approaches that are well documented, well used, and well studied from all over the world that lead to not only the balance of weight, but the balance of all systems in the physical body with the use of food, supplements and other holistic approaches that take into account the individual body, not just some overgeneralized partial study taken 30 years ago. The most powerful and simple advice from my experience, is to attuned to what your personal body needs, and not blindly follow the bariatric gospel, which is very very outdated.

I am curious to know what you are referring to. Please get back to me.

So the real question is. .. is getting to a healthy weight more or less important than buffalo wings and diet soda? I am not saying you can never have them again...but if you had to choose between a healthy weight and crappy food - which would it be?

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The answer is a healthy weight, but I don't think that one has to make such a choice. Yes, at 450 pounds - I am too far gone, but there are millions and millions of people at healthy weights that enjoy buffalo wings for example and maintain that healthy weight through proper eating, moderation on "bad" foods and exercise. I want to be one of those people eventually.

A lot of good advice and outlooks here worth listening to.

I haven't had my surgery yet, I'm about a month and a half out, but I've been working now to change many of my habits that have gotten me to where I am today.

Like the OP, I was addicted to diet soda like crazy. Now, I haven't had diet soda in two months and have no desire to go back to it. Diet soda is just as bad for you as the fully loaded stuff. Aspartame is basically poison, so obese or not, people should steer clear. Remember, when food companies take the sugar out to make it diet, they put something else in that's created in a lab and market it as healthy. The same goes for light and fat free foods - they take the fat out and they dump sugar in and market it as healthy. My NUT has told me many times feel free to eat full fat things. Simple rule of thumb, eat real food. A great documentary on food in our society is Fed Up (it's on Netflix).

I've come to complete grips that I must change my relationship with food and what sold me on that was being told by my surgeon that people with BMI's over 40 can expect to lose 10 years off their life. That was it...game changer! I'm only 41 and I'd like to see my grandkids get married, so I'm willing to give up the crap processed high sugar foods. I also love beer, but now? Bye bye.

If I'm going to have 85 percent of my stomach removed I'm going to make it worth it.

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A lot of good advice and outlooks here worth listening to.

I haven't had my surgery yet, I'm about a month and a half out, but I've been working now to change many of my habits that have gotten me to where I am today.

Like the OP, I was addicted to diet soda like crazy. Now, I haven't had diet soda in two months and have no desire to go back to it. Diet soda is just as bad for you as the fully loaded stuff. Aspartame is basically poison, so obese or not, people should steer clear. Remember, when food companies take the sugar out to make it diet, they put something else in that's created in a lab and market it as healthy. The same goes for light and fat free foods - they take the fat out and they dump sugar in and market it as healthy. My NUT has told me many times feel free to eat full fat things. Simple rule of thumb, eat real food. A great documentary on food in our society is Fed Up (it's on Netflix).

I've come to complete grips that I must change my relationship with food and what sold me on that was being told by my surgeon that people with BMI's over 40 can expect to lose 10 years off their life. That was it...game changer! I'm only 41 and I'd like to see my grandkids get married, so I'm willing to give up the crap processed high sugar foods. I also love beer, but now? Bye bye.

If I'm going to have 85 percent of my stomach removed I'm going to make it worth it.

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You saying that you are going to have 85 percent of your stomach removed scares the crap out of me.

I must be getting the wrong information, because I have been told that the sleeve is a much less intense surgery ala what they take out of you than the bypass.

I have a lot of thinking to do and decisions to make....

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by Hey Man

I don't have the sleeve, but carbonated drinks make me feel weird after a sip. I can't even think about drinking them. But, as you said many people have different issues after surgery. I haven't had any issues on food. I can eat spicy, bread, etc. just very rarely and smaller amounts

With all due respect, and I truly mean that, I believe you are in denial about your eating habits largely based on this statement:

Greetings,

I am primarily obese due to lack of portion control. It isn't that I eat the wrong things or unhealthy things per se, but I eat enough of it to feed a whole family at once and I never feel full.

Nobody has ever gotten to 440 pounds by overeating healthy food. I don't pretend to know you, or know how you eat, but if you have been eating gigantic portions of vegetables, fruit and lean Protein sources you would not be super morbidly obese. You just wouldn't be.

Interestingly, you posted a video from Dr. Weiner who happens to be my surgeon. He does not even believe in calorie counting. He always wants you to be satisfied, and feels if you are truly hungry you should eat. He also advocates eating a minimum of a pound of vegetables daily, preferably 2 pounds.

Prior to surgery I followed his diet for 6 weeks and lost 45 pounds. And I was never hungry. In fact, I often couldn't even finish all the food I brought with me to work.

The reason I bring this up, is that if you are telling yourself you became obese from overeating healthy foods, you are not being honest with yourself. If you are not being honest with yourself about that, how honest are your going to be with yourself about eating bad foods in "moderation"?

I myself started at 333, and I was not a binge eater, I was not an emotional eater, and I often ate healthy food. But I got obese because I ate large portions at every meal and most of what I ate was terrible. Sure, I'd have a chicken breast for dinner, but I'd also have a monster side of stuffing or Pasta. And maybe going out for a huge, decadent ice cream after. Did I fit the stereotype of the morbidly obese? Maybe not, but I ate crappy and got myself to this point. I do believe my body is a lot more sensitive to processed food than thin people and after many years of dieting I know I need a lower than normal calories amount to maintain my weight.

But I also know I didn't get here by eating too many vegetables.

I hope this is taken in the way it's intended. As someone who cares and is concerned. But I think you will be best served taking a hard, honest look at your behaviors. And be willing to accept major changes going forward. It's not that you can't ever eat a slice of pizza again. But you do need to completely change your relationship with food. This surgery is an amazing tool to help you do that if you are committed to it.

Edited April 24, 201610 yr by msujester

You saying that you are going to have 85 percent of your stomach removed scares the crap out of me.

I must be getting the wrong information, because I have been told that the sleeve is a much less intense surgery ala what they take out of you than the bypass.

I have a lot of thinking to do and decisions to make....

The sleeve is a much less intense surgery than the GBP. Only your stomach is involved. There is no rerouting of the intestines, no removal of either the esophageal or pyloric sphincters. No postop malabsorption of nutrients. And with rare exception, no dumping. But yes, about 80% of the stomach is stapled off and removed.

I find that a lot less scary than rerouting my intestines.

Something else I want to touch on about food, is that IMHO having this surgery doesn't mean I can never have pizza again. In fact, I absolutely freaking love pizza! It's my numero-uno food! But instead of eating highly processed garbage pizza like Pizza Hut or Dominos, I make my pizza crust out of cauliflower or zucchini. There are some great, healthy low-carb pizza crust recipes out there that certainly satisfy my pizza cravings. And I also know I'll probably only be able to have just a slice...and I'm good with that.

I'm a huge believer in eating real food, eating organic, buying food from our farmers market, and most importantly, reading nutrition labels and ingredients.

Whenever I get to the point of being able to eat solid foods again post-op, I feel very confident that based on the work I'm putting in now pre-op to learn to eat healthier and cleaner, that I will have long range success. If that means giving up some of the bad foods from my crap eating habit days, so be it, I'm willing to do it because it was those foods and my habits that got me to where I am today.

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With all due respect, and I truly mean that, I believe you are in denial about your eating habits largely based on this statement:

Greetings,

I am primarily obese due to lack of portion control. It isn't that I eat the wrong things or unhealthy things per se, but I eat enough of it to feed a whole family at once and I never feel full.

Nobody has ever gotten to 440 pounds by overeating healthy food. I don't pretend to know you, or know how you eat, but if you have been eating gigantic portions of vegetables, fruit and lean Protein sources you would not be super morbidly obese. You just wouldn't be.

Interestingly, you posted a video from Dr. Weiner who happens to be my surgeon. He does not even believe in calorie counting. He always wants you to be satisfied, and feels if you are truly hungry you should eat. He also advocates eating a minimum of a pound of vegetables daily, preferably 2 pounds.

Prior to surgery I followed his diet for 6 weeks and lost 45 pounds. And I was never hungry. In fact, I often couldn't even finish all the food I brought with me to work.

The reason I bring this up, is that if you are telling yourself you became obese from overeating healthy foods, you are not being honest with yourself. If you are not being honest with yourself about that, how honest are your going to be with yourself about eating bad foods in "moderation"?

I myself started at 333, and I was not a binge eater, I was not an emotional eater, and I often ate healthy food. But I got obese because I ate large portions at every meal and most of what I ate was terrible. Sure, I'd have a chicken breast for dinner, but I'd also have a monster side of stuffing or Pasta. And maybe going out for a huge, decadent ice cream after. Did I fit the stereotype of the morbidly obese? Maybe not, but I ate crappy and got myself to this point. I do believe my body is a lot more sensitive to processed food than thin people and after many years of dieting I know I need a lower than normal calories amount to maintain my weight.

But I also know I didn't get here by eating too many vegetables.

I hope this is taken in the way it's intended. As someone who cares and is concerned. But I think you will be best served taking a hard, honest look at your behaviors. And be willing to accept major changes going forward. It's not that you can't ever eat a slice of pizza again. But you do need to completely change your relationship with food. This surgery is an amazing tool to help you do that if you are committed to it.

Eating pasta isn't deemed to be unhealthy. Eating chicken breasts isn't deemed to be unhealthy. But when you eat enough pasta or rice at one sitting to feed a small village or eat 3 or 4 chicken breasts at one time - then yes, you are going to gain such weight, because you are doing the same thing with everything else you eat - be it lean beef or a pizza.

I never said that I don't eat bad foods - I was just indicating that portion sizes and feeling full is my primary problem and that is absolutely the case, which even my doctor would tell you as I have made food plans for him per what I have eaten all week and he's pretty fine with most of it - just not the portions I am eating.

That's interesting that Doctor Weiner is your doctor? So how do you feel about some of the myths that people believe here that he says are just not true. Like the stretching of stomach through carbonated drinks? Does it mean that you don't listen to him when it comes not calorie counting? Do you always eat when you are hungry?

I appreciate your comments and advice. I think it's better to be concerned and worried - have a million questions as opposed to jumping into things and realizing that surgery wasn't the best option for you.

You saying that you are going to have 85 percent of your stomach removed scares the crap out of me.

I must be getting the wrong information, because I have been told that the sleeve is a much less intense surgery ala what they take out of you than the bypass.

I have a lot of thinking to do and decisions to make....

The sleeve is a much less intense surgery than the GBP. Only your stomach is involved. There is no rerouting of the intestines, no removal of either the esophageal or pyloric sphincters. No postop malabsorption of nutrients. And with rare exception, no dumping. But yes, about 80% of the stomach is stapled off and removed.

I find that a lot less scary than rerouting my intestines.

I have to be honest - I think my wife is so desperate for me to have the surgery, because obviously she wants me to be healthy and live a long life with her, that she is somewhat sugar coating the sleeve so to speak. That instead of having 50 to 60 chicken wings (baked) at one siting, I will be able to have 5 to 10 just fine after a month or two, which is certainly a huge difference in calories, but allows me to still have the things I love on some level.

I am probably spelling it wrong, but my wife told me that they also remove something called Greenlan? - something that sends messages to your brain that you are hungry. Not really sure about that.

That's interesting that Doctor Weiner is your doctor? So how do you feel about some of the myths that people believe here that he says are just not true. Like the stretching of stomach through carbonated drinks? Does it mean that you don't listen to him when it comes not calorie counting? Do you always eat when you are hungry?

I suppose what is healthy and what is not is as debatable as anything else. I feel Pasta and rice are extremely unhealthy in the fact that they are packed with refined carbs and calories and offer no real nutrients. A chicken breast has about 150 calories, so even if you ate 4 chicken breasts 3 times a day, that's 1800 calories. And that's a lot of food!!

But again, I'm really just trying to help, not to argue. You know what you eat better than anyone.

As far as Dr. Weiner goes, I really like him and trust him so I follow his plan. There are certain things like carbonated beverages and straws that are always debated, but generally there are a lot of people that fall on both sides of the argument.

From my opinion, the thing that he believes that is the biggest hot button out here is his views on Protein. I see a lot of people that think 90g is a minimum and that 100g+ is better. Dr. Weiner feels 60g is enough for a male and 50g for a female. That upsets people on the forum. He also believes long term in "veggies first" as opposed to the oft repeated mantra of "protein first". He believes in protein first when you are starting out only.

But like I said, I follow my doctors plan. Others should absolutely follow their doctors. I think where people get in trouble is when they start mixing and matching. A lot of people limit carbs and take in more fat via dairy. I will end up eating more carbs than most as Beans and fruit will be a large part of my diet. I think both plans could work. But if I follow my diet and then think "well, those people eat a lot of dairy, so I can too" well now I'm eating more carbs than most and eating more dairy/fat than I'm supposed to. That could of spell trouble. I always advise people to follow their doctors program.

@@Hey Man,

These are great questions.

Unfortunately, nobody that you’ve asked is necessarily wrong. It is true that nobody knows exactly how things will turn out after the surgery. It’s a different experience for everyone.

Portion control is a major, if not the biggest, problem for many pre-op sleeve (and other WLS) patients. Some patients find that the sleeve solves this problem. They really can’t eat big portions anymore because they get uncomfortably full. A few patients have an extreme response: they have trouble getting in enough calories from healthy foods, and need to turn to shakes for supplementation.

The most likely is that you will feel the restriction, especially in the first year, but it will not do all the work for you. That is, you will still need to measure your portions and end your meal when you have eaten the pre-measured portion, and not necessarily when you are satisfied. There is probably going to be a certain amount of “head hunger” that remains. That’s the desire to eat even if you don’t need it physiologically. That’s something that you may need to fight forever.

Chances are good that you could theoretically eat around your sleeve if you choose slider foods.

I completely agree that an occasional wing or piece of pizza should be part of your life (at least several months after surgery, anyway) if you want it. There’s a good chance it will take a while for you to be able to tolerate certain foods, but chances are you eventually will be able to have the occasional junky choice and the spicy foods you love. There’s no guarantee, though. There’s also a chance spicy foods could cause heartburn.

Some patients find that they are able to have a small amount of a treat, feel satisfied, and move on. Others find that they need to stay away completely to avoid going overboard. If you’re that second type, eating a few wings could turn into a big problem. If you’re the first type, you should be able to indulge the occasional craving.

I think you are very wise to be thinking about “forever” and not just a year or a few years.

About hair loss, you can’t really control it. You can do your best to lower your chances of hair loss by getting enough Protein, taking Biotin and your other supplements, and doing other things to stay healthy like reducing stress.

Good luck with your decision! I am so glad you are weighing everything carefully and reaching out with your questions.

I agree with what many are telling you. I'm 2 years post op and maintaining a 130 lb loss. I can eat anything and everything. Haven't been sick a single time from food since surgery. The difference is in what I choose to eat. Will I go to a restaurant and order a hamburger? Yep. But I order it without a bun. That way I have more room to eat the nutritionally dense meat rather than 2 bites of a burger with bun. I don't even miss the bun. I'm typing this while eating a salad with salmon. Wait, let me rephrase that. I'm eating a salmon filet with a few bites of salad until in satisfied. I truly think going into this process with an "everything in moderation" mentality is a recipe for disaster. I have a few friends who have tried it and after the first few years, when you can eat crap and lose weight, and the hard times set in, failed. Yes,gained their weight back. I decided for me, there isn't a hamburger bun, or a pizza, or a chicken wing that is worth putting my success at risk.

I wish you luck with whatever decision you decide

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