Questions/concerns about the lifetime commitment...

[Reason to Believe 77]

@@theantichick

I just wanted to thank you for creating this thread. Your posts and the responses from others were really helpful and informative for me.

Whatever you decide, I am rooting for you!

[theantichick 2,204]

@@theantichick - I watched every video I could find, especially from those who were not successful, and those who had problems. I faced the worst outcomes, and when I realized I could handle them, that's when I sent in my deposit.

This book was really helpful to me in prepping: http://www.amazon.com/The-Emotional-First-Aid-Kit/dp/0976852659

I am evangelist for this surgery, but I'm not a fanatic. It is a great tool, but for some, so is weight watchers. I just wish you great success and if you want to go down this path, we are here for you.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll definitely check it out.

[Inner Surfer Girl 12,015]

Another book I recommend is Eat it Up! by Connie Stapleton.

[165B445 188]

@@theantichick

I'm glad your are putting time in with your therapist before making a decision about your health. I don't see your post as critical of surgery at all. Doing your research has you on the right path.

Here is my thought's..Most of us have an eating disorder that got us to the point of surgery. You only get out of surgery what you are willing to put into it. I don't put much faith in statistics. Success is up to you.

I am almost 2 years out. I had a good nutritionist and aftercare/education. Learning to eat healthy was eye opening for me. I now look at food as fueling my body. ( A big change in my relationship with food) Cooking has become a norm. food is still wonderful and flavorful. Here is a link to my nutritionists recipes. She gives a great cooking class in my area. Hope it gives you an Idea of what meals will look like.

http://insidekarenskitchen.com/bariatric-friendly-recipes/

That learning phase..Yes I tracked and had to think about Protein etc.

Since I've been in maintenance, My food choices are now automatic because I'm so accustom to eating healthy. I do not think about every bite (Quick meal for me is chicken fajitas - the family has the tortillas. I don't ). I have times I indulge. Just means I put some extra time in the gym if the scale moves up.

My number one priority is getting out and living life.( not planning meals and gym time) So many things my body kept me from enjoying. I don't take my health for granted. I'm making up for lost time

Thx u for recipes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using the BariatricPal App

[stacyrg2 350]

I can tell you what my experience has been on the fronts you're concerned about.

FYI, I'm 20 months post-op, have lost 100 pounds, am maintaining at 135 pounds and currently averaging 1,800 calories/day and around 90-100 grams of Protein. I try to eat at least 5 healthy veggies / fruits a day. I prefer whole grains to processed ones. I drink a glass of wine OR scotch most days. In other words, if someone else were watching my daily menus I bet they would think I "eat normally" and probably "eat healthy."

Second, it seems like this imposes an unnatural relationship with food, forever. I mean, forever having to think about every bite, x many bites of Protein, x many bites of veggies, x many bites of carbs (if there's room)... in people who haven't had gastric surgery, this would be symptomatic of an eating disorder.

Uh -- that's not how I eat 20 months post-op. Yes, I spent the first 6-8-10 months being very disciplined about what I ate, when I ate, how I ate. And in doing so I built some new habits. And, badda boom! Now they're habits. I don't count bites or chews or anything like that now.

By working hard to build those new habits, I learned how to eat much more slowly, how to chew my food much better, how to recognize what satiety feels like, how to know when I'm approaching "too full" and to stop before I get there. Trust me, I had some awful bad habits pre-op. I bet you do, too. We can't change those bad habits without some serious attention to our behavior.

It's not persuasive to say to you, "Trust me, I don't have an eating disorder." But I don't have an eating disorder. What I have is a new lifestyle. I feel very relaxed in this new lifestyle. There's no anxiety about eating. There's no fear, anger, or other upsetting emotions about food. Isn't that what you want?

>

I mean, my current relationship with food isn't healthy (hence the therapist). But in trying to reach a balance and healthy place relating to food, do I want to permanently change my body in a way that requires unnatural eating to the other extreme?

Y'know -- on the front end it does sound *extreme* to remove 85% of your stomach. But on the back end where I am now, it just all feels normal. I just spent a week hanging with some good friends of mine -- all normal-sized and athletic people my own age. We were both eating at home and eating out, too. Some serious partying occurred, as well. What I notice in those settings is that, nearly two years post-op, I am now living the same kind of eating / exercise life they've been living for a long time. They watch what they eat. Read that again: They watch what they eat. Their watching is not obsessive, but it's attentive. I think there's a range of behaviors between obsessive and attentive, and it's intellectually lazy to equate the two end poles of that range. So don't do that.

I've read the studies about how losing a lot of weight through diet and exercise doesn't last long-term in the vast majority of cases. My reading of these studies indicates that it's because in order to maintain that weight loss, people have to spend large amounts of time and energy planning and preparing their food and exercise plans, and it's just too much to maintain long-term. It has to become the number 1 priority in their lives, and that's hard to maintain. It seems that the surgery imposes that same thing, the primary benefit seems to be that the cravings are substantially lowered for most.

Actually, the barrier to my maintaining past weight losses wasn't the planning -- it was that my plans were so often blown out of the Water because I'd never built any new eating habits beyond the "diet to lose weight" phase.

After you lose all your excess weight, after a year or so you can eat so much more than you could right after surgery. The first week after surgery I averaged probably 500 calories/day, all of it liquid. But over the last 20 months I have gone carefully from phase to phase to phase. I didn't go from Dieting one day to Struggling Not to Gain Weight the next day. (How I did all that is a big subject, and one I won't go into here, but it wouldn't surprise you how I did it.)

Yesterday, I ate 3 meals and 2 Snacks -- all real food. I do record most days my menus on My Fitness Pal (it takes me all of 5 minutes -- I'm a data hound). Yesterday I ate 1,805 calories, 103 grams of protein, 189 grams of carbs, 67 grams of fat, 23 grams of insoluble Fiber. Girl, that's how a real person who's eating healthy and maintaining her weight eats!

Oh, and yesterday morning I went for a hike up a small mountain with my sister and late yesterday afternoon I spread 20 bags of mulch in some flower beds. And I went shopping. I wasn't wearing my pedometer all the time, so don't know how many steps I got, but it was at least 10,000 I'm sure.

Am I obsessive? Or am I attentive? You decide. You can also read this post to your therapist and see what she thinks.

Last thought: You should not do this surgery unless and until you are really comfortable that it's the right choice for you. Don't let anyone here talk you into it, including me.

Amazing post VSGAnn! I agree, I look at post surgery as a change of mindset. I don't think anyone who sees me eat out now would ever guess I've had surgery. I eat as a normal weight, health conscious person would eat. I make good choices, eat my allotted amount and I'm done. Your post describes post op life for me to a tee (although my calories/carbs are not at your level, I find for me, my plan of 1200-1300 cals a day, 100+grams of protein and the remainder healthy carbs and fats works well.

I also agree that no one should go into this surgery until they are fully committed to the lifestyle change. This is not another diet, and I truly believe that mentality will get you in trouble post surgery. This is a lifestyle of eating healthy, well balanced fuel for your body. To the OP, I wish you luck in whatever decision you make!

[kbVA 5]

@stacyrg2 I loved what you said: " I look at post surgery as a change of mindset. I don't think anyone who sees me eat out now would ever guess I've had surgery. I eat as a normal weight, health conscious person would eat. I make good choices, eat my allotted amount and I'm done. Your post describes post op life for me to a tee (although my calories/carbs are not at your level, I find for me, my plan of 1200-1300 cals a day, 100+grams of Protein and the remainder healthy carbs and fats works well."

That sounds fabulous to me - I can do the 1300 calorie, monitoring what I eat now, but it takes ALL my brain and willpower. It's possible, but exhausting which is why I think I always lose 20-ish pounds, then put it back on (that and some hormonal/PMS eating I discussed in the ladies thread). It sounds wonderful to get some assistance to eat like that all the time (or most of the time:).

In fact, reading through some of your stories here, I realize that in the beginning, this is the *opposite* of conventional calorie counting and diets I've done. Usually you start out with your set calories, lose weight, and as you keep losing, you have to keep decreasing your calories/exercise to help compensate (more or less) - - - with surgery, it sounds like you start out super low calorie (because you need to go easy on your stomach post op, obviously it's tinier), but then you actually seem to work UP to that 1200 or 1400 or whatever it is that you can maintain at. That is totally different initially than the conventional method.

I think I'm totally on board for the weird and new changes in eating, especially for those first months and year, but what I'm still hung up on is the fact that I have to get *surgery* to make that happen. I'm just not loving the idea right now of having to undergo all that - I'm nervous, worried about both the actual procedure and having those scars on my stomach, etc. I keep saying - I love what the surgery DOES, but wish I didn't need actual SURGERY to get it! Isn't there some hypnosis or magic wand we can put my brain under to think it has a tiny stomach? I'm going to have resolve this fear sooner or later obviously.

Edited April 20, 2016 by kbVA

[theantichick 2,204]

So I met with the surgeon today. She's not listed here, but she's newly in private practice and was with a university group before. I'll probably tell her office person to get her added here ASAP.

I like her a lot. She hasn't been doing this as many years as some of the rock stars in the area, but she answered all of my questions without hesitation or ego, talked about the things that contribute to complications, and what she does to avoid them. I like her approach, and her experience is good, just not as long as some. She has a personable manner, something I'm not accustomed to in surgeons. She says I'm a good candidate, agreed with me that a sleeve was the best surgery to choose, and we discussed the expected impact (good) on my other health conditions.

So now comes the insurance hoops. 3 month supervised diet program, cardiologist for stress test (I have a past heart issue that's resolved, but we'll make sure of course), get my psych to write a clearance, visit a nutritionist, etc. Cigna also requires another doctor to say I need it, but since my rheumatologist referred me and was very positive about it, I don't think that will be a problem. My blood pressure has been trending higher over the last 4-5 months, and it was high enough today that I'll need to visit my primary doc and probably get put on something so I don't get refused for anesthesia. As a past ER nurse, it wasn't a number high enough to worry me especially with weight loss coming this summer, but high enough to cause a problem with anesthesia clearance. My surgery will likely be late July or early August. Which works out well because it will be after my summer vacation trip (when I would NOT want to be on liquid or puree) and if it's timed right will fall between my grad school semesters as well.

She also confirmed what everyone here has said in response to my concerns about life-long eating problems... she said after the first year or two, the eating patterns of her patients look like normal people who don't have eating or weight issues. She expects me to land somewhere in the 1,500 cal a day diet range, and not have to obsess about food more than anyone else who's working to be healthy.

So I guess it's onward and upward. Or downward (weight-wise) if you want to look at it that way.

[Christinamo7 4,041]

I think I'm totally on board for the weird and new changes in eating, especially for those first months and year, but what I'm still hung up on is the fact that I have to get *surgery* to make that happen. I'm just not loving the idea right now of having to undergo all that - I'm nervous, worried about both the actual procedure and having those scars on my stomach, etc. I keep saying - I love what the surgery DOES, but wish I didn't need actual SURGERY to get it! Isn't there some hypnosis or magic wand we can put my brain under to think it has a tiny stomach? I'm going to have resolve this fear sooner or later obviously.

I will say I have worse scars from skinning my knee than from this surgery. I wouldn't let that worry you.

[Inner Surfer Girl 12,015]

@@stacyrg2 I loved what you said: " I look at post surgery as a change of mindset. I don't think anyone who sees me eat out now would ever guess I've had surgery. I eat as a normal weight, health conscious person would eat. I make good choices, eat my allotted amount and I'm done. Your post describes post op life for me to a tee (although my calories/carbs are not at your level, I find for me, my plan of 1200-1300 cals a day, 100+grams of Protein and the remainder healthy carbs and fats works well."

That sounds fabulous to me - I can do the 1300 calorie, monitoring what I eat now, but it takes ALL my brain and willpower. It's possible, but exhausting which is why I think I always lose 20-ish pounds, then put it back on (that and some hormonal/PMS eating I discussed in the ladies thread). It sounds wonderful to get some assistance to eat like that all the time (or most of the time:).

In fact, reading through some of your stories here, I realize that in the beginning, this is the *opposite* of conventional calorie counting and diets I've done. Usually you start out with your set calories, lose weight, and as you keep losing, you have to keep decreasing your calories/exercise to help compensate (more or less) - - - with surgery, it sounds like you start out super low calorie (because you need to go easy on your stomach post op, obviously it's tinier), but then you actually seem to work UP to that 1200 or 1400 or whatever it is that you can maintain at. That is totally different initially than the conventional method.

I think I'm totally on board for the weird and new changes in eating, especially for those first months and year, but what I'm still hung up on is the fact that I have to get *surgery* to make that happen. I'm just not loving the idea right now of having to undergo all that - I'm nervous, worried about both the actual procedure and having those scars on my stomach, etc. I keep saying - I love what the surgery DOES, but wish I didn't need actual SURGERY to get it! Isn't there some hypnosis or magic wand we can put my brain under to think it has a tiny stomach? I'm going to have resolve this fear sooner or later obviously.

Everything about my post-op experience so far is opposite from conventional "dieting". I am convinced that the reason I got to almost 600 pounds is because of "dieting".

[pr_pitbullgrl 1,039]

you are right about what you are saying. for the first three months or more you'll feel like a freak. like you've gone from being a compulsive eater to being a completely abnormal eater. it's true. but then you'll get over it and be able to eat normal foods (in small quantities) and start to see the benefits. ask yourself. do you want to be 300lbs for one more day? or do you want to be 185 and healthy and still enjoy the foods you love (in small quantities)?

it's not like you stay hungry but are unable to eat. you won't be hungry anymore. Where i could sit and eat 10 rolls of sushi before now i can only eat FOUR PIECES but i am full and satisfied. you'll learn to live this way. if you want it bad enough. but make no mistake - you will put in some work. it won't just happen by itself.

best of luck to you!

[Sophie74656 1,572]

Yes the surgery is a lifetime commitment...but really so is eating healthy right?

[VSGAnn2014 12,992]

Yes the surgery is a lifetime commitment...but really so is eating healthy right?

Jeez, Sophie!

(mic drop ... BAM!)

[Sophie74656 1,572]

Yes the surgery is a lifetime commitment...but really so is eating healthy right?

Jeez, Sophie!

(mic drop ... BAM!)

Haha

that's how I basically convinced myself. I was worried about the lifetime commitment aspect of surgery too. The idea of never stuffing my face again really made me sad...still sometimes does. I miss my all you can eat spots. I miss eating a giant greasy burger, or a whole pizza (don't judge LOL) But I got to the point where my lifetime commitment to anything would probably be only another couple of years. So either way I needed to make a lifetime commitment to being healthier and loosing weight.

[CowgirlJane 14,259]

Lifetime commitment yes, but for most of us the strict quantity control is temporary. I am over 4 years out and definitely don't count each bite or have food problems. I eat like a middle aged woman trying to watch her waistline.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using the BariatricPal App

[Bufflehead 6,358]

@@theantichick just so you know, I let my sister pick my surgeon for me. She's a physician and I trust her judgment. She researched the four bariatric surgeons practicing in my town and said my guy, who had the least experience, was the best choice. She spoke to personnel at the hospitals where these surgeons practice and they all had terrific things to say about him -- and my sister also pointed out to me that as the person who was most recently in medical school and residency, he was the one trained in the most up to date techniques and practices.

Anyway, I had a fantastic experience, at least as fantastic as major surgery can be. I had a very quick and easy recovery and zero complications. I absolutely adore my surgeon and have recommended him to three other people who all had similar experiences. So, long story short, the most experienced surgeon is not necessarily the best choice in every circumstance