You all know how I would vote. So lets see how many like me are out there.

As a scientist, I respectfully disagree. Science does NOT point to a creator. And as a scientist, I've learned to disregard the opinions of people who say "evolution is just a theory." It shows that they know nothing about science and probably nothing about evolutionary theory. Let me let you in on a little secret: A scientific "theory" and a common-language "theory" aren't the same thing. A scientific theory is backed up by lots and lots of evidence. Otherwise, it would be called a hypothesis. A common-language "theory" has basically the same definition as "idea." It's a possible solution, with little or no evidence supporting it. A common-language "theory" is the same as the scientific "hypothesis." Evolution isn't called "the hypothesis of evolution." It's called "the theory of evolution."

If it were able to be backed up with so much "proven" scientific evidence it wouldnt be a theory it would be a fact. I am not surprised though at your response. I will agree to disagree with you because if you are a scientist you know then that there are so many "gaps" in the evolutionary theory that it cannot and will never be proven as hard reliable evidence to where we came from.

babygirl1234 this is a reply to your last post to me but I could not find it. I am sure that irregardless of your circumstances that you are a great Mom who loves her children. I dont think for one second that if you truly searched your heart that you would really say that abortion would have been better than having those 3 children that you are blessed with. It would seem to me that you were meant to be a "mommy" because I have never heard of anyone who was able to have 3 kids while under 3 different types of contraception. Embrace your destiny! You are a special woman who is very blessed!

I can see there are a lot of strong feelings on this page, and everyone is feeling they are right, and the other wrong. I ask why argue ??? It just causes disharmony and anger, if not bad feelings for the other. I am asking for us to look at the solution to this problem. The fact is that abortion is the after fact to the problem. As I have said before, if mothers felt good about having there children, and if they where promised the care and help to become a strong healthy mother, and how to be an example of strength and love to her child, and to herself, how much of a better person she would be. Then she will have no need to rely on a man to fulfill her, and she will demand a strong man of good moral fiber who will be a farther and a husband, not just someone to make a baby. These young woman are out there on there own (so to speak) feeling like they are less then, and all they are is a sex toys, they are not smart and don't have to be, if they are good looking according to Madison Avenue. But the ones that can't make the cut, and are not good looking or FAT (God for bid) all they have is there body, or a part of there body they are willing to allow any man into just to feel like they are wanted, because we, society, do not tell them they are worth it, because they don't have the right stuff to wear or the right body type, or the right height, hair, legs hips, eyes,........etc. If you don't make it by our measuring stick, well.... back to the end of the line, because the best you will be able to do is get someone to marry you, any one, in fact as long as they are willing to have you, you better jump at it.

I ask why are we telling our young woman this lode of crap ???? Why is it imperative to brutalize our woman, and treat them like Kleenex people, take one blow, and throw away. Watch TV (the idiot box) or movies, or God Forbid, watch music videos, you will see how "Wonder Land" (the powers that be in Hollywood or where ever) see and acts towards our woman. They are NOT sex toys or Kleenex people. They are divine children of God, and as soon as we start treating them as such you will see a huge drop in abortions and many other things like rape, abuse, ..........etc. A lot of our social problems rise from this. Men are not accountable for there actions, in fact they are looked up to and rewarded for it. If we start to look at the REAL PROBLEM we will see where this leads to many, many problems. I agree that we need a spiritual awaking, BUT you just can't run around thumping people with the Bible, and beating them half to death with your "Jesus Bat". We have to love them first, love them & understand them where they are, and what they are. Then we can show them by example how to live and how to love.

If I had one wish, I would wish that our government where not so greedy, and we could spend our money, on our problems here at home. Not to say we would not have plenty of money left for others. Has anyone here any idea what a trillion looks like ????? I think there would be a lot to cover what needs to be done, as long as we kept the greedy people out of the mix. So my one wish would be to have greed out of government and society, LOL, Fat Chance, right ????? If I made any sense.... Thank you for Reading. If Didn't I am sorry, sometimes I have too many thoughts in my head and they get mixed up, too many drugs from the 60's, LOL. Peace.

Butch S

I'm pro-life and I would never, ever "abhor" a woman because she chose to abort.

But I thought that you thought abortion is murder, the taking of an innocent life. Isn't murder abhorable? Since you believe that abortion is murder, what makes it less "abhorable" than any other type of murder? Could it be that you are making a value statement about an aborted fetus, when you say that you "would never, ever "abhor" a woman because she chose to abort?"

If it were able to be backed up with so much "proven" scientific evidence it wouldnt be a theory it would be a fact. I am not surprised though at your response. I will agree to disagree with you because if you are a scientist you know then that there are so many "gaps" in the evolutionary theory that it cannot and will never be proven as hard reliable evidence to where we came from.

You know, I continue to find it hilarious when creationists refuse to believe in evolution because "there's not enough evidence." Seriously, it's funny. Why do I think it's so funny? There is far more evidence for evolution than there is for creationism. With creationism, all there is is a book that said God created us and the world. Creationists look at the world around them and say, "Yep, it exists, so the book must be right!" That is NOT evidence of creationism.

Yes, I'll admit that there ARE gaps in evolutionary theory. But I DO believe that it will eventually be accepted by more than the scientific community as hard evidence of where we came from. In fact, many of my colleagues refer to evolution as "evolutionary law" instead of "evolutionary theory." So while some of the general public may not accept it yet, the vast majority of science DOES.

Well, I've been looking for the evolution thread and can't find it. Suffice it to say, there IS a thread somewhere around here that goes through all that we've been talking about and more. It's already been covered.

Okay, here it is. There are several pages before the evolution talk begins, though.

http://www.lapbandtalk.com/f80/biblical-case-pro-choice-stem-cell-research-27488/

Ah, brings back memories. It was fun, wasn't it Gadgetlady?

But I thought that you thought abortion is murder, the taking of an innocent life. Isn't murder abhorable? Since you believe that abortion is murder, what makes it less "abhorable" than any other type of murder? Could it be that you are making a value statement about an aborted fetus, when you say that you "would never, ever "abhor" a woman because she chose to abort?"

No, I'm making a value statement about the mother. I feel for her and for the situation she is in. I am very empathetic about the whole thing, despite the brush others have portrayed me with. In fact, I don't know that I could say I "abhor" anyone in this world. While the act is abhorrent and absolutely 100% wrong, that doesn't mean the person committing the act should be hated.

Yes, I'll admit that there ARE gaps in evolutionary theory. But I DO believe that it will eventually be accepted by more than the scientific community as hard evidence of where we came from. In fact, many of my colleagues refer to evolution as "evolutionary law" instead of "evolutionary theory." So while some of the general public may not accept it yet, the vast majority of science DOES.

Why does the scientific community need to accept it "more" if it's closer to a law than a theory?

Personally, from what I see of scientists, even evolutionary scientists, beginning to doubt the theory, it's peaked and is now decreasing. That's not to say scientists are turning around and embracing Creation Science or Intelligent Design, but a lot of them are saying there are deep, significant problems with evolution.

No, I'm making a value statement about the mother. I feel for her and for the situation she is in. I am very empathetic about the whole thing, despite the brush others have portrayed me with. In fact, I don't know that I could say I "abhor" anyone in this world. While the act is abhorrent and absolutely 100% wrong, that doesn't mean the person committing the act should be hated.

To be honest, that doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't murder be murder, regardless of the reason and regardless of who commits it? In your opinion, what makes a woman who has an abortion (or multiple abortions) less abhorable than a man who robs a bank and kills several people or a serial killer? Why should one get a life sentence and not the other, if there isn't a value judgement happening, concerning the killer/victims?

Why does the scientific community need to accept it "more" if it's closer to a law than a theory?

I did not say the scientific community needs to accept it more.

I said:

But I DO believe that it will eventually be accepted by more than the scientific community

In other words, it will be commonly accepted by the general, non-science public.

Personally, from what I see of scientists, even evolutionary scientists, beginning to doubt the theory, it's peaked and is now decreasing. That's not to say scientists are turning around and embracing Creation Science or Intelligent Design, but a lot of them are saying there are deep, significant problems with evolution.

People have doubted evolution for hundreds of years, ever since the theory was first hypothesized and people have said just that, for years, "that it's peaked and now declining." It wasn't true then, and it's not true now. It's not going away.

To be honest, that doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't murder be murder, regardless of the reason and regardless of who commits it? In your opinion, what makes a woman who has an abortion (or multiple abortions) less abhorable than a man who robs a bank and kills several people or a serial killer? Why should one get a life sentence and not the other, if there isn't a value judgement happening, concerning the killer/victims?

Murder is murder, regardless of the reason and regardless of who commits it, yes. When there is a murder, someone innocent dies at the whim of another human being. But I don't abhor someone who commits any murder -- no, I don't want to sit down and have tea with them, but I try to understand what life situation they've been in that would drive them to that point. All of that said, should the crime be punished, should we as a society attempt to ensure it doesn't happen again, and was it wrong? Absolutely, yes. But that doesn't mean I abhor the person who committed it. I guess it goes back to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing. For whatever reason, I find that I have a tremendous amount of empathy for people in all types of different life situations. That's just who I am.

I did not say the scientific community needs to accept it more.

Sorry. I COMPLETELY misread that!

People have doubted evolution for hundreds of years, ever since the theory was first hypothesized and people have said just that, for years, "that it's peaked and now declining." It wasn't true then, and it's not true now. It's not going away.

I don't think it's going away. But I do think it's declining. Time will tell.

Murder is murder, regardless of the reason and regardless of who commits it, yes. When there is a murder, someone innocent dies at the whim of another human being. But I don't abhor someone who commits any murder -- no, I don't want to sit down and have tea with them, but I try to understand what life situation they've been in that would drive them to that point. All of that said, should the crime be punished, should we as a society attempt to ensure it doesn't happen again, and was it wrong? Absolutely, yes. But that doesn't mean I abhor the person who committed it. I guess it goes back to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" thing. For whatever reason, I find that I have a tremendous amount of empathy for people in all types of different life situations. That's just who I am.

That's definitely laudable. Unfortunately, I think you are either in the minority or the other folks have much louder voices, so to speak.

Here's an interesting page, basically quotes from years past, concerning the "decline" of evolution: More And More

Apparently, evolution has been supposedly "declining" for the last 180+ years.

That's definitely laudable. Unfortunately, I think you are either in the minority or the other folks have much louder voices, so to speak.

I think you'd be surprised. The media and the pro-abortion side tend to paint pro-lifers as hateful of women, disdainful, and haughty, and it's just not true. I think you'd be surprised at the compassion and love in the movement. You won't see it on the news and you won't hear it from your side but go, yourself, and talk to them IRL (not debating on a forum). I think it'd be a real eye-opener.