I don't know if anyone has heard the news, but there is a claim that the boxes that Jesus and his family were buried in have been found.

"While the Bible tells the story of Jesus and his resurrection, this box could show physical evidence that he existed, was buried and that he had a son, Judah."

While that might upset those that believe in the word for word Bible, it will not interfere with my faith, because, I don't care if it was the human body of Jesus that was resurrected or a hologram type image that one could put their hand through. It is all the same to me.

I guess some group will come out with a new connotation of the word “resurrected” (was that in Greek, Hebrew of Aramaic?), so that the people who need a literal Bible can say, "I told you so", while others will deny any facts that may be shown "as science run a muck".

It is nice to know that until "Global Warming" destroys the Earth (or at least its ability to support human life), there will be something interesting to debate.

Except those going to these ministries come because they want to be there. I don't think there are a whole lot of people under investigation because they want to be, do you??

Yes, and some investigation units have great results getting confessions. That doesn't mean the people are truly guilty.

Don't you people ever watch daytime television? There have been many programs where gay people who have denied their true sexuality (some of them because it went against their church's doctrine) who did everything in their power to overcome their homosexuality. They have gone to great lengths, and most of them have studied the Bible, gone to workshops, had counseling and some even had to have antidepressants to function. Then they realized that they could no longer live a lie. They had to stop allowing their churches, family, friends and society in general, make them deny their sexuality. They had spent sometimes years living what they called "a lie".

One of my daughter's best friends in high school has a brother who is Gay. His parents are die-hard members of a Church of Christ. They have done almost unmentionable things to their own son because they believe that he can un-choose his sexuality. The poor boy finally wound up on drugs, living on the streets of downtown Orlando because they threw him out for refusing to deny that he was a homosexual. He was a beautiful blond, healthy, intelligent young boy, who now is a broken, angry, lonely person who I wouldn't be surprised if, at this point, he has AIDS. He has no self-esteem, he would rather die than say he's not Gay, so why bother using condoms?

I feel horrible for the son and horrible for the parents. Can you even imagine the torment they must have gone through to treat their own (only) son that way? Yet it is what their pastor advised them to do, and how the church admonished them that primarily caused their behavior. How terribly sad this family is today.

How much pain and suffering do homosexuals have to endure before people understand that we must learn how to live, let live, and love all of God's creatures? However they're wired. I do not doubt for one minute that if Jesus met this young man, he would embrace him and tell him that he is loved.

That sounds very painful and I feel for you and your husband. I can't even imagine what it must be like to be torm like that. I don't pretend to have all the answers or even a lot of understanding in this area. Have you ever had a chance to speak with formerlly gay people who have become stright? Or with therapists who have had experience in that area?

I do believe that God would never prohibit a lifestyle if there were no way out of that lifestyle. I have to believe that the is a way for you too, and maybe you just havn't found it yet.

I have only know a handfull of gay people well, and every one of them had experienced some kind of emotional trauma growing up or as young adults. I don't know if that is universal, but it's what I personally am aware of.

It is not universal at all. I for one was not molested, raped, abused, or otherwise traumatized in childhood (as many claiming to be "ex-Gays" claim they were). In fact I had a pretty happy and normal childhood. And alot of people go through huge trauma and are straight.

All the misinformation flying around out there is so disheartening to me.

As for the ex-Gays, sure, anyone can force themselves to abstain from any kind of sexual behavior. But for a Gay person, being married to someone of the opposite gender will never bring them the same kind of sexual and emotional fulfillment as being with someone of their gender. It's easy to close one's eyes and deaden your true sexuality. I know because I did it for ten years. But when they are reminded, by that new person they meet or just by letting their mind wander to days of old, their feelings come rushing back. I feel very sorry for these people and I understand their struggle because I'm living it every single day.

I just wish their wasn't so much ignorance about homosexuality. I really think if people were better informed Gays would already be allowed to marry.

No one can tell me I can "choose" to be straight. Believe me, I have tried. I have looked at pictures of gorgeous men and I have tried to feel what I feel when I look at a woman. It's just impossible. I'm married to an extremely handsome man for heaven's sake. But let me tell you, it's just simply not the same. I am never going to feel the same when I touch a man's skin as when I touch a woman's skin. I'm never going to feel that same sense of complete fulfillment when I hold a man as when I hold a woman. If I could choose differently, I would.

Now I am being very disclosive and I hope that in doing so, I can make people at least become open to the possibility that being Gay is not a choice. It's not a choice for me and it's not a choice for millions of other people. Perhaps for some it is a choice, but for the majority of people I can say with 100% certainty that it is not. Believe me, please believe me. If you had ever seen the tears upon tears upon tears my husband and I have cried, you yourself would know I am right.

Now I am being very disclosive and I hope that in doing so, I can make people at least become open to the possibility that being Gay is not a choice. It's not a choice for me and it's not a choice for millions of other people. Perhaps for some it is a choice, but for the majority of people I can say with 100% certainty that it is not. Believe me, please believe me. If you had ever seen the tears upon tears upon tears my husband and I have cried, you yourself would know I am right.

Sunta, my heart goes out to you. My best friend is going through the same thing at the moment. She is 45 years old and it's only now that she has come to the point where she can no longer live in denial. The daughter of another good friend has just told her mother that she is gay and has known so since she was 5 years old. She is 22 and has the love and blessings of her family. It would break my heart to think of this lovely young woman living a lie, spending years trying to be straight for any reason whether it be church or family approval.

So who does have the "right" to marriage, then?

That's a very good question. What is a right? I think people have a right to associate with whomever they want and they have the right to enter into a covenant or an agreement with that person that is akin to what people consider marriage. And I'm not sure I believe the government should even be involved. I don't believe that people have the right to expect (or demand) the government to bless or approve of their personal agreement, just like they don't have a right to expect (or demand) that other individuals bless or approve of that agreement. If the government chooses to bestow certain legal or even economic benefits to the agreement between two people, then I guess that's a decision that's up to the people in power and their reasoning behind the legal protections or entanglements therein.

For example, I believe it is wrong that a person can confess a murder to their spouse and the spouse can't testify to that because of "spousal privilege". And yet that is the way the law has evolved. I understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it holds marriage in higher esteem than lawful activity, which I don't agree with.

I hope that answered your question!

Sunta, I know you've hinted at this issue before and I've said this before but I believe it bears saying it again: I am very sorry for the pain you feel every day.

Ron, those are great links, thank you! I have been chewing on something, especially that ther are scriptures that say the Holy One will not see decay, its one of the four hundred plus phrophesies that were fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

The other thing I have been chewing on is the fact that the folks that claim they have DNA evidence to prove that those bones are from Jesus reallly bothered me. There cant be any way that this can be proven. I have in the beginning of my faith really probed spricptures about any mention of genetics and I was astonished when I did a word study from Genesis on how Eve was taken from the rib of man. The true translation is that God took the CURVE from the side of man. This curve is also used to discribe the bones in a ship, etc. When I studied genetics in college, of course one of the first and most obvious things you learn is how the DNA threads are organizen into a double helix, which is unwound or unzipped rignt down the middle when cells divide. I then was struck with the thought that man has the XY chromosome, and woman has XX. I think that God took the X side of the mans chromosome and made Eve the XX, and then man remained XY. That means that the X side of the genetic factor became Eve. Now I know that others will probably laugh at me but thats ok. I will be called crazy for Christ anyday and be all the happier for it. Now when we divide our cells to make ovum and sperm, that explains why the man can only contribute the possobility of the gender assignment.

Anyway, my post is way out of the threads flow but this was a thread to discuss the possible bones and coffin of Jesus. So that why I posted my comment here! Thx.

I have in the beginning of my faith really probed spricptures about any mention of genetics and I was astonished when I did a word study from Genesis on how Eve was taken from the rib of man. The true translation is that God took the CURVE from the side of man. This curve is also used to discribe the bones in a ship, etc. When I studied genetics in college, of course one of the first and most obvious things you learn is how the DNA threads are organizen into a double helix, which is unwound or unzipped rignt down the middle when cells divide. I then was struck with the thought that man has the XY chromosome, and woman has XX. I think that God took the X side of the mans chromosome and made Eve the XX, and then man remained XY. That means that the X side of the genetic factor became Eve. Now I know that others will probably laugh at me but thats ok. I will be called crazy for Christ anyday and be all the happier for it. Now when we divide our cells to make ovum and sperm, that explains why the man can only contribute the possobility of the gender assignment.

Victoriana, as usual you blow me away. That is a fascinating study. I love the mysteries that the Bible contains. I'll be studying this one more :eek:

Thanks Gadgetlady, I appreciate that there is someone who doesnt think Im anabsolute screwball on that thought, some of my friends sometimes give me a kind of blank stare:speechles . :focus:

Thanks Gadgetlady, I appreciate that there is someone who doesnt think Im anabsolute screwball on that thought, some of my friends sometimes give me a kind of blank stare:speechles .

I'll be your friend! :eek:

Actually, I am consistently amazed by the intricacies that I learn about God's Word, and how every day of research brings new discoveries that just confirm what He says. I've had a lot of those "WOW, that's fascinating!" discoveries in my studies. Feel free to lay any of your "screwball" theories on me any day of the week.

I actually have a question for you or anyone who can answer this; it's a "screwball theory" of my own. Does anyone know if, when animals give birth, they experience pain? I don't have a lot of experience with animals (grew up in the city and didn't have any pets) so I've never known. I'm not talking about whether they exert themselves, but whether they exhibit actual signs of pain.

I still can't wait to see the DNA evidence. I think that's hilarious! What are they going to compare it to... God's DNA. This, I've got to see!!!!!!

I still can't wait to see the DNA evidence. I think that's hilarious! What are they going to compare it to... God's DNA. This, I've got to see!!!!!!

Yeah, I wondered the same thing. Actually, I was thinking about this several years ago and wondering if "they" could ever acquire a sample of Jesus' DNA (I wasn't, of course, thinking of this in connection with non-existent bones, but rather with the Shroud of Turin), it would be rather interesting given that Jesus was perfect in all ways. What does perfect DNA look like?

I certainly agree with you. Although I have very limited scientific knowledge, I trust the Word of God explicitly. I have heard reports that DNA studies have indicates that we all came from a single parent, that would be Adam, which gives further evidence to the Biblical creation account.

The fact that this new discovery was made by a HOLIDAY PRODUCER should be a first clue that it's a complete fraud and fabrication. Experts all over the world are dismissing it as phony.

The Bible tells us the, as you said, the "Holy One would not see decay", and that there were over 300 live witnesses, at different times and locations over 40 days that saw the risen Lord. I don't know who is in those stone boxes they claim to have found, but I know for a fact it is not the remains of the Lord. He was visibly taken into heaven bodily in front of many witnesses. Thanks for feeling the same way and saying it here!!

Ron, those are great links, thank you! I have been chewing on something, especially that ther are scriptures that say the Holy One will not see decay, its one of the four hundred plus phrophesies that were fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

The other thing I have been chewing on is the fact that the folks that claim they have DNA evidence to prove that those bones are from Jesus reallly bothered me. There cant be any way that this can be proven. I have in the beginning of my faith really probed spricptures about any mention of genetics and I was astonished when I did a word study from Genesis on how Eve was taken from the rib of man. The true translation is that God took the CURVE from the side of man. This curve is also used to discribe the bones in a ship, etc. When I studied genetics in college, of course one of the first and most obvious things you learn is how the DNA threads are organizen into a double helix, which is unwound or unzipped rignt down the middle when cells divide. I then was struck with the thought that man has the XY chromosome, and woman has XX. I think that God took the X side of the mans chromosome and made Eve the XX, and then man remained XY. That means that the X side of the genetic factor became Eve. Now I know that others will probably laugh at me but thats ok. I will be called crazy for Christ anyday and be all the happier for it. Now when we divide our cells to make ovum and sperm, that explains why the man can only contribute the possobility of the gender assignment.

Anyway, my post is way out of the threads flow but this was a thread to discuss the possible bones and coffin of Jesus. So that why I posted my comment here! Thx.

As a former farmer, I can tell you that animals do experience discomfore during giving birth!

I'll be your friend! :eek:

Actually, I am consistently amazed by the intricacies that I learn about God's Word, and how every day of research brings new discoveries that just confirm what He says. I've had a lot of those "WOW, that's fascinating!" discoveries in my studies. Feel free to lay any of your "screwball" theories on me any day of the week.

I actually have a question for you or anyone who can answer this; it's a "screwball theory" of my own. Does anyone know if, when animals give birth, they experience pain? I don't have a lot of experience with animals (grew up in the city and didn't have any pets) so I've never known. I'm not talking about whether they exert themselves, but whether they exhibit actual signs of pain.

Can I be your friend too??

I'll be your friend! :eek:

Actually, I am consistently amazed by the intricacies that I learn about God's Word, and how every day of research brings new discoveries that just confirm what He says. I've had a lot of those "WOW, that's fascinating!" discoveries in my studies. Feel free to lay any of your "screwball" theories on me any day of the week.

I actually have a question for you or anyone who can answer this; it's a "screwball theory" of my own. Does anyone know if, when animals give birth, they experience pain? I don't have a lot of experience with animals (grew up in the city and didn't have any pets) so I've never known. I'm not talking about whether they exert themselves, but whether they exhibit actual signs of pain.