Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

It's not illogical at all! Those who are spiritually blind cannot have spiritual incite and understanding. If you know the scriptures as you claim , then you should be familiar with -

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Who is to say who is spiritually blind and who are not??? The Bible does !!

But who is to say that the Bible is right? Where is the objective evidence?

Not surprising! There are may in the pulpit that claim knowledge of the scriptures, but are spiritually blind. There is a big difference between having a head knowledge and having spiritual understanding.

Maybe these other folks who are in the pulpit are not spiritually blind and you are, Cusano. Who are you to say that you are right and these other pulpit riders are not closer to God and to spiritual health than you? You don't sound that well versed and certainly you are not a humble fellow, are you?

Who is to say who is spiritually blind and who are not??? The Bible does !!

That's wonderful, for those who take the Bible as authoritative. Some of us don't. Some of us find truth in other holy books. What I don't get is why that strikes you as invalid. We fully accept that your beliefs are completely valid and true for you, and it seems that all we ask is the same respect.

That is the foundation upon which Christianity is built - Read my post to lisah25 - and that is just the tip of the iceberg of the mountain of evidence

But who is to say that the Bible is right? Where is the objective evidence?

Several ways, all of which would take considerable time and space! For one, the very nature of the Bible itself. A total of 66 seperate books or writings written by 40 authors, most of whom never knew each other, over a period of 6ooo years. All of these seperate writings put together make a single volume, like a puzzle where all the parts fit neatly together telling a single story

.

Mathamaticians have concluded that the odds of this happening by pure chance at a number that is beyond our comprehension. The odds that it could have been a conspiricy involving all 40 authors over 6000 years is also beyond the realm of reason. This is a great argument for devine intervention

Consider Bible prophecy! There are literally hundreds of specific prophecys regarding the Messiah, all of whom Jesus fulfilled. Mathamaticians have concluded that the odds of one man fulfilling just 7 of these prophecys at any given point in time and history to be, are you ready for this . . .

1038 (1 in a 100 billion, billion, billion, billion)

This is just enough to scratch the surface in answer to your question. The odds of the Bible being what it is and Bible prophecy being fulfilled as it has, puts the odds of it being by chance or coinsidince far beyond the realm of possibility. The only explanation is exactly what the Bible claims it is - devine inspirition from a Holy God.

None of this has anything to do with blind faith!

Cusano says biblical prophecies, Green says biblical incoherencies. Read on!

God is satisfied with his works; Gen 1:31

Oh no, He's not! Gen 6:6

God dwells in chosen temples: 2 Chron 7:12,16 or does he? Acts 7:48

God gives freely to those who ask: James 1:5/Luke 11:10 but He also withholds His blessings from those who ask: John 12:40/Josh 11:20/Is 63:17

God is either warlike - Ex 15:3/Is 51:15 or He is peaceful - Rom 15:33/Cor 14:33

And sometimes killing is commanded -Ex 32:27 but sometimes it is forbidden - Ex 20:13

Then there is this case of adultery: yes - Num 31:18/Hos 1:2, 2:1-3 or no - Ex 20:14/Heb 13:4

There are many more of these contradictions but I will move on in order that I might display some of the contradictions in the speculative doctrines.

Christ is equal to God. John 10:30/Phil 2:5

Christ is not equal. John 14:28/matt 24:36

Jesus was all powerful Matt28:18/John 3:35

Jesus was not all powerful MARK 6:5

Man is justified by faith alone Rom 3:20/Gal 2:16/Gal 3:11,12/Rom 4:2

Man is not justified by faith alone James 2:21,24/Rom 2:13

The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness Gal 5:2

or it is vengeance and fury Judg 15:14/1 Sam 18:10,11

I could lay my hands on many more of these contradictions and I could discuss other unsavory aspects of the Bible with you like, these ones, for instance: Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria, "their women with child shall be ripped up," or 2 Kings 15:16 where God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be "ripped open."

Or would you like to discuss Mark 7:9 where Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament Law (see also Matthew 15:4-7)?

How about Luke 12:47? This is where Jesus okays the beating of slaves.

The Bible is an interesting document. It is an anthropological curiosity. It was written by men.

These are not contridictions! They are verses taken completely out of context and view without benefit of seeing the who view of scripture. This is typical of those with limit knowledge of the Bible trying to discredit it. I could argue each of these and present a true understanding, but we would be here for days. Just for the sake of demonstrating what I mean, let's take a basic objection that you bring up . . .

Christ is equal to God. John 10:30/Phil 2:5

Christ is not equal. John 14:28/matt 24:36

What appears to you to be a contridiction is nothing of the kind. When Christ took on the form of human flesh and came into the world as a man, to be like His creation, He divested himself of his godly perogative so he would experience everything that humans do. Nevertheless, He was still every bit God and every bit a man at the same time. That being understood, In John 14:28, Jesus is drawing a comparison between himself in the flesh, and the Father who is spirit. While still being God, in His human form the father that He is talking about returning to, is greater in position. For some reason, you quote Matt. 24:36 which has nothing to do with the subject.

Let's do one more just to point out that your argument does not hold water.

God is satisfied with his works; Gen 1:31

Oh no, He's not! Gen 6:6

In Gen. 1:31, God looks at what we created and indeed was satisfied with His handiwork. The timeline for Gen 6:6 takes place after the creation of man, the fall of man through sin, and the spread of evil through out His creation. At this point, needless to say, it greived God that evil had come into the world. There is no contridiction here. Just someone with no spiritual discernment and a very limited knowledge of scripture attenpting to discredit the Bible using the usual old tactic of taking verses out of scripture in a transparent attempt to prove a point that does not exist. The same holds true for all of your other so-called inconsistancies! Nice try - No cigar friend!

Cusano says biblical prophecies, Green says biblical incoherencies. Read on!

God is satisfied with his works; Gen 1:31

Oh no, He's not! Gen 6:6

God dwells in chosen temples: 2 Chron 7:12,16 or does he? Acts 7:48

God gives freely to those who ask: James 1:5/Luke 11:10 but He also withholds His blessings from those who ask: John 12:40/Josh 11:20/Is 63:17

God is either warlike - Ex 15:3/Is 51:15 or He is peaceful - Rom 15:33/Cor 14:33

And sometimes killing is commanded -Ex 32:27 but sometimes it is forbidden - Ex 20:13

Then there is this case of adultery: yes - Num 31:18/Hos 1:2, 2:1-3 or no - Ex 20:14/Heb 13:4

There are many more of these contradictions but I will move on in order that I might display some of the contradictions in the speculative doctrines.

Christ is equal to God. John 10:30/Phil 2:5

Christ is not equal. John 14:28/matt 24:36

Jesus was all powerful Matt28:18/John 3:35

Jesus was not all powerful MARK 6:5

Man is justified by faith alone Rom 3:20/Gal 2:16/Gal 3:11,12/Rom 4:2

Man is not justified by faith alone James 2:21,24/Rom 2:13

The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness Gal 5:2

or it is vengeance and fury Judg 15:14/1 Sam 18:10,11

I could lay my hands on many more of these contradictions and I could discuss other unsavory aspects of the Bible with you like, these ones, for instance: Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria, "their women with child shall be ripped up," or 2 Kings 15:16 where God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be "ripped open."

Or would you like to discuss Mark 7:9 where Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament Law (see also Matthew 15:4-7)?

How about Luke 12:47? This is where Jesus okays the beating of slaves.

The Bible is an interesting document. It is an anthropological curiosity. It was written by men.

Semite:

1.a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

2.a Jew.

3.a member of any of the peoples descended from Shem, the eldest son of Noah.

Therefore: Anti-semitism would be discrimination or inapropriate actions against a Semite which could just as easily be an Arab or Muslim as a Jew.

Agreed, but in the common usage of the term, it generally refers to Jews. God bless!!

Semite:

1.a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

2.a Jew.

3.a member of any of the peoples descended from Shem, the eldest son of Noah.

Therefore: Anti-semitism would be discrimination or inapropriate actions against a Semite which could just as easily be an Arab or Muslim as a Jew.

A common tactic of cults and fringe groups that claim to be Christian and ar not, will take parts of the Bible out of context and build entire false belief systems out of them.

Which of the different Christian groups are the cults. I have spoken to members and clergy from many different denominations and some basically say that any other denomination but theirs is a cult. Rick Warren says that only Evangelical (Born Again) Christians are God's Children, while he sells his video games to Christians so that they can get a chance at killing non-Christians and especially Muslims.

BTW, Muslims who have read the "Holy Qur'an" accept Christians and Jews as God's children. I would almost say, "That is mighty Christian of them".

The Bible is a series of 66 Books written by 40 different authors over a period of about 6,000 years, that all fit together like a jigsaw puzzle yielding a tapestry of devine origin. Without an understand of how all of the pieces fit together, one can not understand the full the message it contains.

Is that the Bible as put together by Constantine about 325 AD? Or what was decided at the "Council of Trent"? Or some other governing group?

Agreed, but in the common usage of the term, it generally refers to Jews. God bless!!

But there is a lot of antisemitism being directed at the Muslims of France, including new laws directed at their clothing. I wonder why you are so annoyed by the antisemitism against Jews, which are not anymore Christian than the Muslims of France, yet post nothing in complaint about the treatment of the Muslims of France. Doesn't seem either fair or logical to me.

I won't name any specific group here as a cult, but any that stray from the basic tenents of Christianity while still claiming to be Christian could fall into that catagory. I don't knbow who Rick Warren is, but anyone who advocates vidio games depicting killing non-Christians and Muslims if not acting from a Christian perspective.

Which of the different Christian groups are the cults. I have spoken to members and clergy from many different denominations and some basically say that any other denomination but theirs is a cult. Rick Warren says that only Evangelical (Born Again) Christians are God's Children, while he sells his video games to Christians so that they can get a chance at killing non-Christians and especially Muslims.

BTW, Muslims who have read the "Holy Qur'an" accept Christians and Jews as God's children. I would almost say, "That is mighty Christian of them".

That is not true! I have spoken and debated many devote Muslims, and read much of the book myself, and they consider the God of the Qur'an the only true God, and anyone who does not worship him is an infidel and worthy of death. They consider only Muslims to be their God;s children. Just for the record, the God taught in the Qur'an is not the same God of the Bible.

Is that the Bible as put together by Constantine about 325 AD? Or what was decided at the "Council of Trent"? Or some other governing group?

Constantine did not , as you say, put together the Bible! He declared Christianity to be the official state religion, which many historians and Bible scolars consider to be more of a political move that a spiritual one.

Let me add one thing further. There has been a tremendous amount of killing, warfare, death and hatred throughout history, in the name of Christianity but people who were either severly misguided or not Christians. Christians do not hate Muslims, non-Believers or anyone else. We just hate sin.

I have read all the posts on this thread and I think ALL will agree. It's time to let this go. No one is making any head way. It's just causing ill feelings. But there is one verse in my Bible that is highlighted that I would like to share and I will not post again.

Whoso keepeth his mouth and his tongue, keepeth his soul from troubles. Proverbs 21:23.

lisa

I won't name any specific group here as a cult, but any that stray from the basic tenents of Christianity while still claiming to be Christian could fall into that catagory. I don't knbow who Rick Warren is, but anyone who advocates vidio games depicting killing non-Christians and Muslims if not acting from a Christian perspective.

Rick Warren wrote the book "Purpose Driven Life" and is the minister at one of the largest Christian mega-churches in the USA

Constantine did not , as you say, put together the Bible! He declared Christianity to be the official state religion, which many historians and Bible scolars consider to be more of a political move that a spiritual one.

There was no specific list of which books would be accepted as the Bible until Conatantine started a commision to evaluate the different books for cannonization and then had 50 Bibles made up in 332AD.

Let me add one thing further. There has been a tremendous amount of killing, warfare, death and hatred throughout history, in the name of Christianity but people who were either severly misguided or not Christians. Christians do not hate Muslims, non-Believers or anyone else. We just hate sin.

So George W. BuSh would not be a Christian by your standards.

Ahhh, but he did, and so did King James' edition of the bible. There are many many many "scriptures" out there that were written in the time frame of the original followers of Chirst. However some of them say things like, "you dont really need to go to church, for God is all around us" or that Mary Magdeline had her own scriptures. (Nag Hadami Library.) The basis is that these MEN put what they wanted in there bible to keep what they wanted. A Patriarchal society.

While I firmly believe in God, for which I have my own reasons for believing in, I understand why people don't. And I accept that my beliefs my seem to be a "red herring falicy" to others, I don't care.

I also would not begin to assume that I could convert or challenge any atheist on this board.

Is that a bad Christian of me? maybe, dunno. I just dont think that Inquisition style tactics of dragging people to the other side is right.

Happiness/compassion gets people to believe in God, not slanderous remarks about thier intelligence.

** Token Catholic ** (although, I think that should be someone else's title. )

Oh and dont get me started on Christians who dont think I'm Christian enough because I am pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Catholic.

Wheet, I think you are right, when I am prompted to write, I smell troll too.

That is not true! I have spoken and debated many devote Muslims, and read much of the book myself, and they consider the God of the Qur'an the only true God, and anyone who does not worship him is an infidel and worthy of death. They consider only Muslims to be their God;s children. Just for the record, the God taught in the Qur'an is not the same God of the Bible.

002.062: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

The word Allah is Arabic for "The God".

If you had read the whole Qur'an, you would know that the human whose name is mentioned most in the Qur'an is Moses, followed by Noah and Jesus. Even Mary (the mother of Jesus) is mentioned more often than Mohammad.

002.053: And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.