Someone recently passed this article on to me, which I posted on another board. It was promptly removed. So sad . . .

Frightening News from France

Once again, the real news in France is conveniently

not being reported as it should. To give you an idea

of what's going on in France where there are now

between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews,

here is an email that came from a Jew living in

France. Please read! Will the world say nothing - again - as it did in Hitler's time?

"I AM A JEW -- therefore I am forwarding this to

everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back

and do nothing." Nowhere have the flames of

anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set

on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center

was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and

Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil - all recently.

A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with

Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred

Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were

painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a

Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The

bus that takes Jewish children to school in

Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.

According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen

10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past

30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been

defaced with slogans proclaiming "Jews to the gas

chambers" and "Death to the Jews."

A gunman opened fire on a Kosher butcher's shop

(and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse , France;

a Jewish couple in their 20s were beaten up by five

men in Villeurbanne , France . The woman was

pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and

vandalized in Sarcelles , France . This was just in

the past week.

So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a

friend, or merely a person with the capacity and

desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do,

at least, these three simple things:

First, care enough to stay informed. Don't ever let

yourself become deluded into thinking that this is

no t your fight. I remind you of what Pastor

Neimoller said in World War II: "First they came for

the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I

wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and

I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they

came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up,

because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me,

and by that time there was no one left to speak up

for me".

Second, boycott France and French products. Only the

Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and,

unlike them, France exports more than just oil and

hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes.

Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott

their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If

we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and,

whatever else we may know about the French, we most

certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a

hurricane in the face of well directed pressure.

Third, send this along to your family, your friends,

and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of

good conscience that you know and let them know

that you and the people that you care about need

their help. The number one best selling book in

France is "September 11: The Frightening Fraud,"

which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon."

My only question is: Why is it not appropriate to as a spiritual leader, to direct you people to vote in a manner that is consistant with the moral code set by the organization. I say that carefully, because that could apply to any group. Planned parenthood lobbies people to vote for pro-choice candidates. The NRA lobbies people to vote for candidates that support their ideas. Minority groups lobby to support candidates that help their cause. The list goes on. Why would Christian leaders not lobby for candidates that supported their views as well?

If a minister preaches that abortion is wrong and that God condemns abortion, and there is an election two days later, if the parishioners are too lazy to see who is pro-life and who is pro-choice, that can not be blamed on suppression of freedom of speech.

For a minister to tell his congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan goes way past the law. For a minister to tell a congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan is fine, but by taking a tax exemption, he is asking Kerry supporters to help his church financially while that church tries to defeat Kerry.

My minister speaks out about injustice (as he sees it) and quotes scripture to make his point. He however was honest enough to give up his tax exemption. I and all the other members of my congregation do not take a tax deduction for our contributions.

The tax exempt law does not prohibit ministers speaking about social, moral or political issues. It only prohibits them from entering the political process by endorsing a specific canidate or party.

Many issues, such as abortion and gay marriage fall within that criteria and they are within the teir rights to discuss them and provide spiritual guidance therin.

That makes sense. Now that I think about it, the churches I've attended haven't endorse a candidate, but did address the issues and urged us to vote the issues. Thanks for clarifying :confused:

If a minister preaches that abortion is wrong and that God condemns abortion, and there is an election two days later, if the parishioners are too lazy to see who is pro-life and who is pro-choice, that can not be blamed on suppression of freedom of speech.

For a minister to tell his congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan goes way past the law. For a minister to tell a congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan is fine, but by taking a tax exemption, he is asking Kerry supporters to help his church financially while that church tries to defeat Kerry.

My minister speaks out about injustice (as he sees it) and quotes scripture to make his point. He however was honest enough to give up his tax exemption. I and all the other members of my congregation do not take a tax deduction for our contributions.

Thanks for the clarification.

If a minister preaches that abortion is wrong and that God condemns abortion, and there is an election two days later, if the parishioners are too lazy to see who is pro-life and who is pro-choice, that can not be blamed on suppression of freedom of speech. I havn't seen anyone here make that accusation!!

For a minister to tell his congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan goes way past the law. For a minister to tell a congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan is fine, but by taking a tax exemption, he is asking Kerry supporters to help his church financially while that church tries to defeat Kerry. That minister was clearly wrong, and is in the tiny minority that might cross the line!

My minister speaks out about injustice (as he sees it) and quotes scripture to make his point. He however was honest enough to give up his tax exemption. I and all the other members of my congregation do not take a tax deduction for our contributions.

Then he is not bound by the tax exemption law. Good for him!

Just for the record, you and all the other members of you church don't have a choice in the matter. You are legally prohibited from claiming a tax deduction from a church that does not have tax exemption. Personally, I think all church's should enjoy tax exemption and still ahve the right to free expression. That's just my opinion!!

If a minister preaches that abortion is wrong and that God condemns abortion, and there is an election two days later, if the parishioners are too lazy to see who is pro-life and who is pro-choice, that can not be blamed on suppression of freedom of speech.

For a minister to tell his congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan goes way past the law. For a minister to tell a congregation that a vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan is fine, but by taking a tax exemption, he is asking Kerry supporters to help his church financially while that church tries to defeat Kerry.

My minister speaks out about injustice (as he sees it) and quotes scripture to make his point. He however was honest enough to give up his tax exemption. I and all the other members of my congregation do not take a tax deduction for our contributions.

I am a member of two minorities. I am an atheist. My father's side of the family is Jewish and while I am not Jewish to a Jew I am Jewish to any and all anti-Semites.

Just as there was revulsion in the Western world not so long ago over the story of a Muslim who had converted to Christianity and who was going to be put to death by his state for this reason, there is presently great anxiety amongst many of us who live in North America at this time and who do not conform to the evangelical right wing vision of what they would like to see in a political state. Note that this group would not only include the usual suspects, that is to say those of us who are atheists, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, pro-choice, left-wing-nuts, Democrats, and New Age Buddhists, but this group would also include a bunch of Christian co-religionists: Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc....

Should the state not be kept separate from the religious power brokers of the fundamentalist right, all of us who do not satisfy those who obtain power (let us now call you The Thought Police) will be at your mercy. We will be the dhimmi. You will cut us no slack.

You might remember that this continent was settled by individuals who wished to be left in peace in order that they might believe and worship according to their needs. You might also need to be reminded that the framers of your Constitution were meticulous in keeping these needs, the needs of you and of any other folk who should chose to come to this continent, in mind. This is why they were kinda fussy about separating religion and state. I think that this was mighty kind and mighty civilized of them. What do you think?

Does that include knowing that BuSh is not King George?

And that there are three separate and equal branches of government?

And that at least one of those branches has said that church and state must be kept separate?

Should we amend the the US Constitution to make the USA a Theocracy?

You know, I see you get upset over and over when other people submit posts that you read to imply various things about you. In that same vein, I resent your implications about me and the beliefs to which I subscribe. I don't think the USA should be a theocracy. I don't think the president is a king. And I know the First Amendment quite well. In case you don't, it says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

In other words, unlike the country of England from which they had just come, the Founding Fathers did not want the United States to have an official religion. And we don't. That doesn't mean religions of various types can't influence our politics or our society. It means that the GOVERNMENT doesn't run the CHURCH, and there is no OFFICIAL CHURCH established by the government.

Should the state not be kept separate from the religious power brokers of the fundamentalist right, all of us who do not satisfy those who obtain power (let us now call you The Thought Police) will be at your mercy. We will be the dhimmi. You will cut us no slack.

Isn't the reverse also true? Didn't Canada pass Bill C-250, a "hate crimes" law that forbids criticism of homosexuality?

Just for the record, you and all the other members of you church don't have a choice in the matter. You are legally prohibited from claiming a tax deduction from a church that does not have tax exemption. Personally, I think all church's should enjoy tax exemption and still ahve the right to free expression. That's just my opinion!!

Which equates into the USA becoming a theocracy. IMHO

Isn't the reverse also true? Didn't Canada pass Bill C-250, a "hate crimes" law that forbids criticism of homosexuality?

Yep, but this also forbids criticism of all life styles, even those of the fundamentalists.:confused: It is, however, a controversial law and I am not sure that I am comfortable with it even though its roots were based in idealistic sentiments. I believe that the UK is struggling with similar problems vis-a-vis hate laws and freedom of speech issues at this time. The issues at stake are impossible to hammer down with these clumsy laws it would appear.:cry

You know, I see you get upset over and over when other people submit posts that you read to imply various things about you. In that same vein, I resent your implications about me and the beliefs to which I subscribe. I don't think the USA should be a theocracy. I don't think the president is a king. And I know the First Amendment quite well.

I was not asking you the first three questions. I was wondering if the test would include those questions.

The last question was addressed to anyone who wanted to reply.

About me getting upset. Unless you have planted a web-camera in my home, you do not know if I am smiling or crying, or anywhere in between.

I was not asking you the first three questions. I was wondering if the test would include those questions.

The last question was addressed to anyone who wanted to reply.

You were replying to me. It seems to be a no-brainer that it was directed at me. And it is pretty clear that you (and others on this thread who agree with you on most positions) believe that all of us Christian fundamentalist fanatical terrorists believe that the US should be a theocracy.

Don't say "no-brainer"!! He thinks you're calling him stupid. He got mad at me before!!

You were replying to me. It seems to be a no-brainer that it was directed at me. And it is pretty clear that you (and others on this thread who agree with you on most positions) believe that all of us Christian fundamentalist fanatical terrorists believe that the US should be a theocracy.

Uh-oh Tom. You're in for it now!

Don't say "no-brainer"!! He thinks you're calling him stupid. He got mad at me before!!

Oh, Heavens to Betsy. Did I use a bad word? Shame on me. But you can't blame me, surely. We terrorists don't have any concept of the sensitivities of the world around us. Saying "no-brainer" couldn't possibly be a figure of speech. It must mean that you think others don't have a brain and are inferior to you. Silly me. :faint: